Baby stay as a way to tighten headstay

[degas]

Question: does it make sense to add a bit more tension to the baby stay with the intention of tightening the head stay, and, I guess, increasing the mast rake?

My hypothesis: pulling the middle of the mast a bit forward pushes the top of the mast a bit aft.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don’t think you’ll find it moving the top of the mast much. The masthead will be held in position mostly by the backstay and head stay. Tightening the baby stay will probably add bend, not rake. In higher breeze that can help flatten the main a bit. For the most part it’s just there to keep the mast from inverting.

 

[dlochner]

Rake and prebend are often confused. Prebend is the curve of the mast, rake is the angle of the mast away from 90° to the waterline plane.

Increasing tension on the baby stay will increase prebend as it pulls the center of the mast forward while the backstay pulls the masthead aft. The curve of the mast should match the curve in the mainsail luff. Prebend also helps to reduce mast pumping and prevents the mast from inverting, i.e., having the middle of the mast curve aft instead of forward.

Rake is primarily adjusted by the mast butt location and headstay length. To increase rake move the mast butt forward and lengthen the headstay and shorten the back stay. The Pride of Baltimore is a good example of extreme mast rake.

 

[Joe]

Question: does it make sense to add a bit more tension to the baby stay with the intention of tightening the head stay, and, I guess, increasing the mast rake?

My hypothesis: pulling the middle of the mast a bit forward pushes the top of the mast a bit aft.

No. Mast rake is controlled by the forestay. So... that's where you go for that.

 

[jssailem]

Are we to assume that your question about baby stay tightening is for a Tanzer 29?

The image of the boat rig, I found, does not show a “baby stay”.

https://dn760002.eu.archive.org/0/items/tanzer29brochure/scan0002.jpg

When properly tuned your mast should be in column. Not much rake. Tension on the forestay for a Mast Head Sloop is done by tension to the back stay. Care should be given to limit this tension as too much could cause an S curve of the mast. Under sail, this type of rig usually has some forestay sag in strong winds.

 

[degas]

Are we to assume that your question about baby stay tightening is for a Tanzer 29?

The image of the boat rig, I found, does not show a “baby stay”.

https://dn760002.eu.archive.org/0/items/tanzer29brochure/scan0002.jpg

Yes, I'm asking about my Tanzer 29.

Either look a little closer at that image or maybe I'm using the wrong terminology.

By "baby stay" I mean the piece of standing rigging that goes from the middle of the mast's height to the forward deck, close to the mast base.

Also, thanks for the confirmation about the purpose of the baby stay.

(btw, I'm the one who scanned and submitted that image to archive.org. )

 

[Davidasailor26]

The image of the boat rig, I found, does not show a “baby stay”.

Looks like it has a baby stay to me. Other photos I found of the Tanzer 29 show one too. I think you may be seeing it and thinking it’s a forward lower.

 

[dlochner]

By "baby stay" I mean the piece of standing rigging that goes from the middle of the mast's height to the forward deck, close to the mast base.

That's what I'm thinking is a baby stay.

The smaller Tanzers used the same mast sections, does the 29 use the same mast section?

 

[degas]

The smaller Tanzers used the same mast sections, does the 29 use the same mast section?

Good question.

Yeah, that's my understanding too, that the Tanzer 22, 7.5, & 26 share a lot of the same hardware including mast section. Tanzer was pragmatic, for sure.

Dunno about the 29. It's a French design, not a Tanzer design, so my uninformed guess is that it doesn't. I can tell you that the boom is from Francespar.

 

[dLj]

My question that does not seem clear to me from this discussion: What are you actually trying to accomplish? The initial question was asking to tighten the forestay. Is that your fundamental goal? Or do you have something else that you are trying to accomplish?

dj

 

[degas]

My question that does not seem clear to me from this discussion: What are you actually trying to accomplish?

Not trying to accomplish anything, really. Just asking out of sheer curiosity. It's too easy to see standing rigging as some black box where tightening or loosening something has unexpected consequences somewhere else. I've even bought a book about it but never found it that helpful.

 

[jssailem]

The two shrouds that attach to the mast and terminate at the fore/aft port and starboard deck gunnels are there to stabilize the mast in column to port and starboard.

A baby stay is attached to the mast beneath the Forestay and to the deck between the mast base and the bow. It is sometimes referred to as an inner forestay. As you battle to windward the middle of the mast may begin to pulse fore and aft. This is referred to as pumping. This action can weaken the mast to failure. The baby stay is designed to stop the pumping motion.

A detailed discussion can be found at this link.

Babystay and Check Stays | Nautical Ninja

How the babystay and check stays control specific mast sections, why they matter for both structural integrity and sail shape, and how to integrate them with backstay and runners for precise rig tuning.

nauticalninja.com

 

[PaulK]

If you want to tighten the forestay you can shorten it or the backstay. The top of the mast will move forward or back accordingly, reducing or increasing rake when you do this. Tightening the stays will also tend to push the mast down on the mast step. As others have said, the baby stay is for controlling mast pumping or for helping bend the mast to flatten out the mainsail.