B361 vs Catalina 36 MKii

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Aug 2, 2017

You will find many comments from owners for the Beneteau 361. Most of us, if not all, seem to be very happy with this model.

First to answer some of your concerns:

Keel bolts: I think in older Beneteaus the keel bolts were not stainless steel but not on the B361. Definitely stainless steel keel bots for the Benny 361.

Fit and finish: it’s subjective, but I think Beneteau paid a lot of attention even into details to produce a decent boat here. Round edges, many handholds around, safe and large cockpit, everything fits together properly. I would say, for a production boat, the quality is above average.

IKEA style interior: IKEA would wish…..! The interior wood is far from cheap. If I remember well it’s a mahogany family wood called Douka and the finish according to the brochure is “cherry strained”. If you refer on the boards of the floor, then, no these are not made of wood. It’s a form of plastic almost impossible to scratch.

Sail badly: Again this is subjective, but most of the owners seem to agree that these boats sail very well. Personally I hate motoring with my boat as it seems to slam when you face any kind of waves, big or small, but as soon as sails are out it’s a different nice world. Extremely balanced boat with sails on and easy to singlehandle.

Now, what to look. Since it’s a 2001 you will need to check a lot of things.

Has the standing and running rigging ever replaced?

Do the electronics work?

What’s the condition of the sails?

What’s the condition of the engine? Engine mounts? Maintenance history available?

Has the little fitting of the shaft end ever replaced? It will be corroded if it’s still the original (search for this. It’s a little maintenance thing, not only applicable to Beneteaus, that can lead to problems if not replaced every some years).

Is the condition of the stanchion bases OK? Unfortunately very easy to “push” them into the fiberglass and cause damage.

Lastly, but as an owner you know this already, every boat is a compromise….

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Aug 3, 2017

The babystay is quite close to the mast so I wouldn't say that it gets in the way. Nothing really to pay attention to it. Actually a baby stay and twin backstays are some more "details" that make rigging stronger.

Syversens · Aug 3, 2017

I would echo what Philip says, we've had our 361 for years now and the longer we own her the less likely I am to consider different boats, not saying she's perfect just feels right for us. I'm not sure what the spinnaker mast specifically refers to but our 99 came with spinnaker option. it included a halyard, a topping lift and a winch on starboard side. I added a pad eye to front deck for downhaul, two blocks attached to aft cleats and we were in business. Our asymmetrical is in a sock, a furling system for it has been on my wish list for years... still not come true.

Personally I like Ikea so I don't see that as a complaint necessarily but I'd definitely disagree with 361 being ikea'ish, it's way more custom and has a much warmer feel. To me new boats look far more ikea and my advice would be to take good care of the interior and it will take good care of you.

Sailing: ours is both a shoal draft and a furling main so performance is, lets face it, not exactly a racer, I did race our years ago and we kept up very well in winds over 12 knot but under 10 she's sluggish. She definitely do not point as high as others BUT play with sail trim and genoa lead positions and you gain quite a bit, I don't think many cruisers bother with that and blames the boat. She sails fine for us but furling main with no battens she's just not a buoy winner, and was never intended to be. Like Philip suggested I'd check the engine, the rigging and making sure furlers work. Electronics might be due for replacement too though I still have the 99 original gear plus some PC based upgrades.

One major complaint I have is that our boat has serious prop walk to port with the fixed standard prop, again something that's been on my wish list to replace but hasn't happened yet. There are a lot of tricks with prop walk and how to manage it but it has caused me a few "oh crap" moments over the years.

Dean Thomas · Aug 3, 2017

This is interesting - we did the same comparison, but 11 years ago. We went with the 2001 Beneteau 361 and have absolutely loved her. We bought our boat from Sailing Specialties in Mystic, CT and eventually sailed her down here to Florida 6 years ago. I don't remember any negatives about the Catalina 36 except for one thing - I frequently might need to go straight down the companionway steps through to the salon or front cabin and the Catalina 36's galley sticks out in the way. You step down, then step to starboard to go around it. It felt awkward. The B361 is a straight shot. Silly, I know, but it always felt poorly arranged.
Comments:
1) That IKEA comment is from the NEWER model Beneteaus (and Jeaneaus and every other Euro boat, it seems). The 2001 era are much more traditional and I FAR prefer that look to the current look. I'll be really glad when this IKEA fad has run its course and the boat interiors return to the traditional look. I think the interior wood looks great, not cheap at all.
2) That baby stay can be annoying, no doubt about it. On long runs, I'd like to put the dinghy upside-down up there and you just can't do it with the baby stay there. When tacking with the big genoa, it doesn't really cause a problem. It is what it is and I live with it.
3) The keel bolts are indeed stainless and connect to a cast iron keel. We've had zero problems with them.
4) For the first five years of ownership, we assumed that a bit of water in the bilge was just normal. It wasn't until we brought the boat to Florida that we discovered that the bilge can be absolutely dust dry! What was happening is that the winterizing process was to drain the water heater into the bilge, which got pumped out. One "feature" of most Beneteaus (I think) is this grid network of the hull. Well, water gets trapped in other sections and they don't always drain quickly to the deepest point. On a long 3-day off-shore passage down to Ocean City, MD, I took my little shop vac and pulled every drop of water out of every section. Being in Florida now, we don't winterize anymore and have had a bone dry bilge ever since.
5) The main house batteries are in an absolutely ridiculous location - under the aft berth at the foot of the bed. You have to remove the mattresses, then lift up the boards to get to the space. So those batteries don't get checked for water level as often as they should.
6) Access to the engine from the front is great. Access to the engine from the back is great. Access to the engine from the side? Horrible. Guess where access to the raw water impeller and oil filter on the Westerbeke 30B is?
7) We love the cockpit, but I wish the wheel wasn't quite so large. I understand why it's that way - you can sit all the way out to the edge and still steer, but going around it is a pain. At least the seats are designed to curve around to give room for your legs. Someday I'd like to invest in one of those folding wheels.
8) I think the storage is adequate. We cruised 5 adults and 1 child for 6 weeks moving the boat from Bristol, RI to Cape Coral, FL and it handled what we needed.
9) I'm not sure about the speed comment - our boat is loaded for cruising, but we pass boats with diamonds on their sails all the time

grin

. Now, it is not the racing B36.7, but the B361 isn't a slouch.

By the way, I've learned over the years that there are different versions of the 361, including one with a swing keel and twin rudders! Apparently, the ones manufactured in France had more varieties than the ones made in Marion, SC.

Thanks,
Dean Thomas
Cape Coral, FL
2001 Beneteau 361 Second Wind

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Aug 3, 2017

Syversens said:
I would echo what Philip says, we've had our 361 for years now and the longer we own her the less likely I am to consider different boats, not saying she's perfect just feels right for us.

I own my Ben361 for 10 years now. So many times i considered upgrading to a 40-42 footer but it's just impossible to let it (her) go. It's a fine boat.

Just to comment, i also have in mast main sail but the deep keel version (1,80m). It does point quite well. I had the opportunity to take part in a club race where one of boats was a Beneteau 361 with the shoal draft. Even though it had a full batten clasic main sail the difference in pointing and leeway from my boat was really amazing.

I agree with Deans comment about the dingy and the baby stay. I hate the dingy anywhere it is placed in front of the cockpit. I keep mine under the boom but during any passage, short or long, i just place it at the stern above the swimming platform.

LeslieTroyer · Aug 4, 2017

I suspect by asking the question on a Bennie site you'll get answers favoring it. You should try the same on the Catalina big boatsite here or catalina36.orgto get the other side of the story.

I love my Cat36 but have no experience with the Bennie so not much held

Les

Don S/V ILLusion · Aug 4, 2017

jarcher said:
Thanks you very much everyone, these are great comments! I'll keep all of this in mind.

My GF and I are making a 2.5 hour (each way!) drive to check out one of these. I had asked the broker if we could do a demo sail when we came, so I would not have to make a second trip, and of course he said no. Worse, he said that could only happen as part of the survey process, which means if I don't like the way she sails I can get out of the purchase but at the cost of the survey. So, we'll go to check the boat out, but without a demo sale I won't be making an offer on this one. Fortunately there are at least two others that look interesting!

Brokers typically view requests for a 'test sail' as a joy ride. Sailing the boat is part of the survey process with the surveyor onboard, not just you.

Novice buyers pay too much attention to interior design. You will spend most of your time in the cockpit. Concentrate on that and overall quality and past maintenance. The biggest difference between Catalina and Beneteau is the iron keels typical on the latter which is a cost cutting choice and prone to additional maintenance issues. Otherwise, they are built to the same "price point" and market.

NYSail · Aug 4, 2017

And also you mention beneteau is a production boat...... isn't Catalina a production boat also?

Gunni · Aug 4, 2017

The bulkheads and cabinetry on the US Beneteaus of that age are all marine ply with mahoghany veneer. They are made in an amazing wood factory in France which I believe you can google to find. Everything is cut and finished with a two-part catalyzing clear finish, there is no stain involved. Then the parts are packed off to South Carolina for assembly in the boat shop. The bulkheads are fully tabbed to slots in the hull grid and liner which gives the boat a very stiff structure and contributes to the good sailing characteristics.

You could try to reach out to the owner and see whether he would take you out for a sail. Brokers don't want the liability or the hassle since yachts don't come with demo rides - you are supposed to know and understand the sailing characteristics of the boat based on configurations you can see and inspect. The survey sea trial will be your chance to confirm the boat. Frankly if someone asked me for a demo sail I would say no and dismiss them as a uninformed lookie-Lou.

Gunni · Aug 4, 2017

I would walk away from a boat with a rotted bulkhead unless the owner understands that it an extensive and expensive repair he is willing to comp you for. That damage is a sure sign of poor ownership maintenance. There will be more to find somewhere.

This is no IOR design, it is beamy and stable. Much easier to sail. If the reviews and testimonials are not enough to settle the decision you may have to just make sure you get the boat at the right price and be prepared to sell it if things don't work out. This is a risky sport. Your surveyor should be tasked with thoroughly testing all systems including the sail gear and your offer should stipulate that you get to come back to the table if you find things other than represented by the owner. The biggest issue I see are twitchy impatient brokers who want the survey to be over ASAP. The PO on my current boat insisted on being aboard during the survey and sea trial and was a real bother. I was glad I had selected a real salty curmudgeon for a surveyor. He shut the dude down.

I don't think you could go wrong with either of the boats under consideration. Both are fine boats. I shopped a Catalina 42 when buying a B411. (A Hunter 44DS too) I had sailed sister ships to all these boats and knew their characteristics. I took my wife aboard all boats in the final round and noted her impressions, then I made my decision - selecting a boat that was not her first choice. Why? I'm the guy who has to sail and maintain the boat. I know my honey and I knew these boats and accept that responsibility and everything that comes with it. She has come to love the boat and enjoy the many features she had no visibility for. Her skipper delivered for her. You the man.

reworb · Aug 5, 2017

I've had a Catalina and I now have a Beneteau. Neither is the model you're comparing so I can not speak to those boats but to the lines in general. While the boats are not the same(different style interiors,wood work and design and smaller berths in Bene) they are comparable in build quality and longevity. On thing I did prefer about the Catalina was it's lead keel over the Beneteau cast iron. The cast iron does require somewhat more maintenance. Beneteau has a much better on line parts department where you can order model specific parts. I would buy either brand again although I would lean towards the Catalina probably because it it was our first sailboat and more importantly never had a problem with it in the 12 years we owned it.

Philip_Oceanis 361 · Aug 5, 2017

May i ask what maintenance does the cast iron keel needs? Besides epoxy (like the rest of the hull) every 6-8 years and antifouling paint every 1-2 years (again like the rest of the hull) i never did anything else. Am i missing something?

Stu Jackson · Aug 5, 2017

reworb said:
Beneteau has a much better on line parts department where you can order model specific parts.

That may have been your experience but I recall many, many posts on this forum bemoaning the difficulty of getting B parts. That could well be that they simply didn't know the secret handshake to get to B parts. But if you need a secret handshake, why?

OTOH, the Catalina factory is still open, there is the separate but extremely well-stocked Catalina Direct store in California, and the C36 website so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Experience recently shared by a friend who had a Catalina 34 and now has a Beneteau, is that C skippers tend to be more hands on, fixit types. He related: "Beneteau owners aren't typically do-it-yourselfers, compared to Catalina owners. Part of the reason, I think, is Beneteau's racing heritage -- space and weight is reduced for speed, leaving very little room for modifications."

He simply loves his B and has had two!

This is simply an observation, not a knock on either boat. But it does reflect the (possible) reality of who you may be as a skipper and owner [note the word reflect]. It's not that either boat doesn't need preventative maintenance, or that one is more "finished" than the other, it's just how things work out.

Example: Dock walking I see a lot of Bs of different sizes. Most all of them look alike to me. I go to many Catalina Rendezvous, with many of the same size boats as mine and many other sizes. Even the new Mark IIs have distinctive differences (beyond just canvas) that owners have made to the boats. I've been sailing for 45 years, so I know what I'm looking at.

I'm just pointing this out in case --- based on your personality, wants and needs, experience, and plans --- it could factor into your decision making process.

Whatever you choose, good luck, they're both great boats.