B&R rig stock headsail upgrade

Jul 11, 2007
86
Hunter 44AC Marina Del Rey
Has anyone had good results in light to moderate air with a larger headsail than the stock 110% that Hunter provided? I was always told I don't need any more area due to the size of the mainsail but in cruiser class club racing in light air, I don't have a prayer against 150% headsails on other production boats.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Welcome to the world of non-overlapping headsails and rigs.

You are correct... while more race-oriented boats have less an issue, cruisers that can only fly jibs upwind have trouble in handicap races against boats that can fly 155 genoas with no effect to their rating.

Do not let anyone tell you you can fly a genoa on your boat upwind. That's a lie. The sheeting angle will suck, and you'll pull the sail through the spreaders.

You COULD use one off the wind, reaching. In this case its like a code-O, which would be a better idea. The trouble is you would have to switch sails. If you had a code it would help reaching for sure.
 
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Sep 21, 2009
385
Hunter 34 Comox
I had a 130% Genoa made last year by evolution sails. 6.6 Dacron with a foam luff. Beautiful sail, and I can sail to weather just fine in up to eighteen knots. The foam luff allows me to roll it up to about 100% and it still has some decent shape. The other day I rode a broad reach in 14knots and averaged 6 knots over 3 hours. The new sail and a feathering prop made a huge difference in light airs as well.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I had a 130% Genoa made last year by evolution sails. 6.6 Dacron with a foam luff. Beautiful sail, and I can sail to weather just fine in up to eighteen knots.
You don't have a non-overlapping rig, which is precisely the OPs issue.
 
Nov 26, 2012
1,654
C&C 40-2 Berkeley
I had a 110, 135 and 155 for my Hunter 25.5. I used them all upwind depending on the on the wind strength and the bigger sail is the better in light air no matter what the point of sail short of getting over powered. If you really want to get the full power of the headsail remove the roller furler and get a hank on sail that comes all the way down to the deck (deck sweeper). That is where the money is. I found that dropping the sail and putting it away is not really that big a deal. The Hunter 44AC is not exactly a racer so maybe not worth the trouble.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
DO YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THAT HE CANNOT FLY A HEADSAIL LARGER THAN A JIB??

His boat has a B&R rig that has shrouds that come out the the gunnels. You can't have a headsail that wraps around them, so jibs only.

 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
So the real issue is how does the "made for stronger winds sail" set when used for light wind conditions. I'd bet that it just hangs there like a bag and does not develop a great shape to get power from the wind. So a lighter weight jib would be one answer. Racing is expensive by definition. You want to win the you gota pay the devil his due.
Other things you can do is get a folding/fethering prop, keep the bottom clean, get a main with more roach (don't know the rule on that though so may not be an option), reduce windage by lowering the bimini during a race..... then there is the crew and operations side. Gota have a crew that can tack and jibe like they do it for a living and don't be training a helmsman during a race.
 
Jul 11, 2007
86
Hunter 44AC Marina Del Rey
All good stuff and thank you everyone. I easily point 30% apparent with a nice foil shape jib and main. It's simply not enough square feet to get up on it's legs in apparent winds under 8-9 knots. And, once the wind picks up, I am easily at or exceeding hull speed so it is what it is. I do have a top-down furling asymmetrical and that works great off the wind. So I just watch the forecasts and only race when the winds look good.
Thank you all...
 
Jan 22, 2008
766
Hunter 340 Baytown TX
Jack is right, you can't have a jib any bigger than around 110% on a B & R rigged Hunter with outboard shrouds and no backstay. The big mains with large roach can make up for the small headsail, unless you have a roller furling main. The early 90's and 80's Hunters with B & R rigs had backstays and inboard shrouds and can use big genoas.
We use our code 0 every chance we get in our cruising club class races downwind, on broad reaches, and close reaches up to and inside 60 degrees in light winds and have a blast with it. And do well on those legs against Catalinas and Beneteaus with 150's up. But the course to that next mark seems to always be a close haul.
I've sailed for 30 years and thought I knew a lot and had a fast boat, that first race last year really opened my eyes! I didn't know crap about going upwind and my boat was no where near as fast as I thought. But the crew and I are having the time of our lives out on the race course.
We've been in about a dozen races and have learned a lot. Got new sails about a month ago and didn't like the shape I was getting on test sails, so the sailmaker came out for a sail. That was even more eye opening, so much more to learn! And it is so cool to see what a pro can make your boat do. No matter how good you think your skills are with your boat, they aren't as good as you think (everyone overtrims).
Feathering prop, removing weight, clean bottom are all important, but perfectly trimmed sails are really important. My next move is to find the right teacher and get some lessons.

Good luck Lynn!
 
Jul 11, 2007
86
Hunter 44AC Marina Del Rey
Fun video... I guess I could start by removing my outboard motor and BBQ, and if I was really motivated, pull out my 4k genset, TV's, 600a battery bank etc.... (floating Winnebago) :'}.... funny you should mention advice, I am going out with my sailmaker of 25 years this month. Looking forward to his thoughts and observations. I have had the boat since 2007 and only this year have I really taken a hard look at really working the main properly and what a difference. Just getting a spring for my vang and removing the topping lift helped allot in controlling the twist and leech tension. I rigged up some purchase on my main halyard and I can now adjust the luff without a winch. Another huge difference in moving the draft.
 

weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
Problem w/ the 0's is that you can't use them for non-spin beer can races.:(
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
I think you can have a 155% genaker made and fly it out side and back to whatever block you use for your spinnaker, but it does lack the control of a car. I don't race with it but I have a Doyle UPS that I sail that way and I'm adding a sprit and asym this year to the inventory. I think you can add a sprit with little penalty providing you stay within J +3 for your mounting point (TPS).
0 for windward/leeward and -6 for distance but of course that depends on the PHRF committee.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,818
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
There was a sailor on this forum that raced I think was it was a 41 Hunter and had a sail maker come to the boat and think he went a little bigger jib was made maybe 120 was the max the sail maker said that would work.
My rating given to me was higher with what I had on my boat
Gen, full canvas, ac and adjusted for my rating.
I also took off anything that was not bolted down to make lighter and empty water tank when racing,lot a work and beat up my sails needing repairs often and did win races but everyone was adding fancy sails and I decided to not race this year and spend time and $$$ on cruising.
Nick
 
Jul 11, 2007
86
Hunter 44AC Marina Del Rey
yep, with that kind of payoff, there is no way to justify the expense to add 10%. At $ 2/ cup of coffee, I’m figuring my Genset will take about 25 years to pay for itself :’}... so why add another useless expense. I already have a Selden bowsprit with a top/down furler so I will look for good wind days and choose my battles if I want to club race.