B.O,8.T. ........Diesel Eng. Help

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

I'm at work now and wont be home for another week. I am completely retarded when it comes to engines. here's the scoop......Eng was hard starting at times. Had a mechanic check it out and re-do all of my fuel lines. $700 later, my engine is runningm BUT>>>>>> the mechanic told my GF that the inside of my engine is good, but the outside is pretty bad. The engine is 30 years old. It is a 40HP Westerbeke. My injector pump is leaking fuel into the bilge. He didnt want to do any more repairs because he felt that I may be throwing in good money after bad. He said that it is likely that I will have more problems down the line because the signs of its 30 year age are upon us. Obviously, I will get a second opinion. After spending $700, it could very easily cost me $8K in future repairs, which is the approx. cost of a new engine completely installed. He also told GF that in its current condition, I could probably get $3K for it on e-bay from someone that has time and knowledge to work on it. I have neither. If, on the other hand, I run it to a point that it is no longer operating, I own another anchor. The mechanic came highly recommended by other fairly knowledgeable owner/mechanics.What do you think?, and what are your qualifications? Anywhere from no knowledge, to a good backyard mechanic to a professional diesel mechanic will do, as long as I know where you are coming from. The $8K will not be easy to come by. Tony B

 

[Stu Jackson]

What else doesn't work?

Diesel "mechanics" are notorious for not being very good. "The mechanic came highly recommended by other fairly knowledgeable owner/mechanics." That said, yours may be great. I just don't know. It sounds like you weren't there. I understand work commitments, but you NEED to be there when anyone works on your boat."He said that it is likely that I will have more problems down the line because the signs of its 30 year age are upon us." Heck, they could say that about most of us! My engine is 21 years old. I've seen older engines that look even better than mine. I need to buy some Castrol Superclean and do a really good cleanup, but otherwise it runs great.Tony, you've posted so many great things here, take your time and analyze what your issues are, and take them step by step. If the block is good and things are working, and the injector pump is leaking, find out why and either repair or replace it.U wrote: " If, on the other hand, I run it to a point that it is no longer operating, I own another anchor." Sure, but why not learn about your engine and figure out what YOU want to do. Getting a second opinion is only gonna give you a choice between what two other people say. It's like this forum if you ask about teak treatment or dinghies! If the inside is good, clean the outside. Why even think about running it until it breaks, why not find out what needs to be done, do it, and keep it running? These engines should essentially last forever, being used about 100 to 200 hours per year, you've got what, the most 6,000 hours. That's only half the anticipated life of the engine. If you want to keep the boat, take care of the engine you have.I started with our engine when I bought the boat 9 years ago knowing NOTHING about diesels. I learned. I spent hours learning and working on the engine myself. The only time I had anyone else work on it, and I WAS there ALL the time, he messed it up, and I had to fix his work!Think of it as a safety issue: you know how to sail and dock the boat, learn about the engine. You don't need to learn diesel theory, just enough about the parts that you can fix, or, in some cases can't.It's much easier to hire a mechanic and say "Please remove the injector pump and repair or replace it," than it is to say "give me an opinion on the engine." The latter is just too big a question.Find out where and why the injector pump is leaking. It could be as simple as a loose hose clamp from the pump to the banjo. Aha, another great diesel engine term!!!Really, I'm no diesel engine expert, but I've learned all I could about my engine. I've installed a new HX, new hoses, new raw water pump and all those regular maintenance things I never thought I could ever do myself when we first bought the boat.Give it a try, apply yourself as you have with other things on the boat, and make your OWN decisions.Your engine, BTW, is a good one, and still being supported by the manufacturer. marindieseldirect.com is a resource, along with its link, torrensonmarine.com.You can do it!

 

[MoonSailer]

I doubt that $8k is enough

A friend at my old dock paid $10,000 for an engine. He installed it himself.Think carefully about your plans for this boat. If you are going to be motoring a lot a new engine might be good insurance. But if you only motor a little and sail a lot this engine may be good enough.  I've been fixing cars and motorcycles since I was about 15(first motorcycle) . Most repairs are fairly simple. Remove old part and install new part... Cleaning gasketed surfaces and using a torque wrench solves most leaking problems. O-rings get old and can be replaced. Again cleanliness is important. A tiny amount of crud can make a leak. Even tearing down and rebuilding an engine is not rocket science. I've done head jobs. Not too big a deal. Take off the head and take it to a machine shop where they do the hard part. Then bolt the head back on. Again a torque wrench and cleanliness are important. Wrong torque on a head can lead to big problems. My goldwing broke a timing belt and I had to rework one head. The timing belts were a pain because of getting the timing right. The timing belt breaking caused the valves to get bent and that was beyond my ability. But things like replacing water pumps or fuel pumps are usually simple. They do take time and are aggravating!!!! I remember a mechanic wanting $100 to replace my water pump on my car. I bought a rebuilt one for about $30 and there were only two bolts to remove. The biggest pain was removing the fan belt and loosening the radiator for room to work. Took less than two hours. Of course many would rather pay the money and not get dirty. I used to work on stuff to save money . Now it is practice for the day when my engine won't start and I am in some far away anchorage!!!! I've got an old volvo MD11C in my boat. I've been afraid of this engine for four years!!! Last trip to the boat it was still working. It motored me all the way up the Tenn-Tom last year and all the way up Pickwick lake this last March. I plan to use it until it breaks.

 

[Landsend]

I have the mechanics point of view...

I'll presume the mechanic you hired is a decent mechanic and he says it's not worth the effort or cost in repairing a 30 year old motor. Lets say you put three of four thousand into the motor and fix everything for that moment in time, you're still dealing with a 30 year old motor that other things will go wrong with and parts will become harder to find as time goes on.The mechanic could just continue putting on parts and parts and parts. If you like the boat enough to spend the money, then do so. If not, sell the boat and find something newer. I just hate wasting good money on bad stuff. Good luck

 

[Ctskip]

Lets look at it from the mechanics point of view

he says you'll be throwing good money after bad. Again thats his opinion. My motor doesn't look so good from the outside, but runs like it's new inside. Thats the important side anyway. It's got 2500 hrs and I know with some preventative maint, it'll out last me. A leak is easy to find and correct. What possibly could be wrong with the "outside" of your motor? Paint? Sounds like he cant bill you enough to make it worth his while to comeback time and again and fix a simple problem. For him there are bigger fish to fry. You'll be doing small things like belts /pullies/waterpumps/alternater and the such. Small things that with time and help from the audience(here) there's nothing you cant tackle on your own. The mechanic was talking to your GF and not you. Guys tend to say differant things to females when it comes to describing what s wrong with something. The possibility also exists that something was lost in the translation from mechanic to GF to you. As with anything that is older, one must certain precautions in its usage. Be sure your gauges are accurate and your motor area is clean and up to par. Clean fuel, backup filters and belts. Visually check it while its running and while underway. Besides what 30 yo anything, isn't going to give you problems "down the line"? It also sounds like when it came to fixing the leaky fuel system, he didn't want to actually do some mechanic work and earn his money. How could a "good" mechanic let you go with a leaky fuel system and still have the audacity to charge you $700? Just my opinion. Keep it up, Ctskip

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Thanks for the encouragement

I'll have to wait till I get back home and talk to him myself. We intend to do some extensive cruising and now he has the admiral in a panic. I'm always short on time when I'm home, I guess the best thing to do is to clean up engine as best as possible, paint it white and take a good look at the corrosion etc. I paid him to re-do my fuel system. Long story, but previous owner could complicate a wet dream. My survey came in lower than normaal value partly due to what the surveyor referred to as "overly complicated systems". His recommendation was to pull up a dumpster, a garbage can was too small. To give you an example: I have 29 components in my septic system with 3 page instruction manual made up by owner as to which valve to open and close depending on what you want to do with the shit, so to speak. The PO also made up a 3 page instruction manuel for starting the engine. I recently re-did my fresh water system and had somewhere between 50 to 60 lbs. of valves, "T" and "Y" connections, and small sections of hoses. I did save the hundreds of hose clamps though. I dont think I had any single hose longer than about 18" before it went into a "T". "Y" or check valve. This man had lots and lots of time on his hands. Anyway, I had a fuel leak and I wanted the mechanic to throw away all that crap and put in my fuel lines like they ought to be. KInda remove all of the dozens of unnecessary stuff that was causing me problems. Anyway, Ill have to clean up the engine and have another mechanic look at it and I'll take it from there. The mechanic said something about a leaky injector pump. I'll have to figure out what it looks like, check avaailability of parts and see whats involved in replacing one. I'll start by trying to find out what an injector pump is . Sounds like it injects fuel? Not going to be fun.

 

[RAD]

TonyB

Hello TonyHow many hrs are on that 30 yr old Westy? I have a W30 with about 1200 hrs and its a 1978 and Ive been collecting spare parts from Ebay over the last 3 years knowing that this engine will out last me and I would find out whats leaking with the injector pump and or have it rebuilt from a reliable rebuilder but if it aint broke leave it alone just fix the leak.The outside is pretty bad?? what does that mean it don't look nice cause some one stopped giving it a fresh paint job every couple years, hey mine looked like crap when I bought it but after some new belts,hoses,a good cleaning and fresh paint she looks and runs great and its a pleasure to work on without getting dirtysooo 700 dollars and it still leaks from the injector pump?

 

[jackhartjr]

Hi TonyBob...

...I got worried when I read that the mechanic said the inside of the engine was good, but not the outside! If he is replacing fuel lines and related...he can't tell much about the inside, unless he was doing a compression check too.If the engine has been running fine internally...and the fuel line fixes helped that much...sounds like you probably have a good engine...you just need to do preventive maintenance to it from time to time.What I call preventive maintenance is a regualr schedule of replacing things that can wear out or rot.Sail on brother!JAck HartHickory, NC

 

[Ken13531]

Learn about it for safety if for no other reason!

I agree with Stu Jackson (first reply) except for his first line.Most sailors are pretty good with every thing from electricity & plumbing to knots and lines. If you learned about those things the next thing is learn about your diesel engineI am in the diesel engine business and have been making a good living at it for the last 40 years. I have taught a lot of mechanics and just like in any other profession there are duds. 30 year old engines are everywhere just ticking like timex's.I would ask around the marina or yacht club if there is anyone interested in looking at the leak and watch over you as you fix the leak. Maybe it can be fixed on the engine. Clean the engine really thoroughly around the injector pump. Dry it off and then run the engine and watch for where the leaks originate. Keep your fingers away from the leaks while it is running as the pressure can penetrate your skin and make you very very sick. Maybe it is a fuel line or a 10 cent copper banjo bolt washer. If the injection pump does have to come off, buy the manual, read up on removing and replacing the injection pump and keep it handy as you go.By the time you are finished you will have that engine figured out and know what makes it tick. It will also make you a lot better skipper if you know how to get the engine running when you are away from the dock and expert help.Send me some pics of the injection pump if you can and I can help you get started. I would only buy another engine if the old one was already an anchor.Fair winds

 

[TT23844]

More diesel advice

Tony - Picking up on Ken's comments ( Reply #8) - even if you have no interest or compulsion be play at being a diesel mechanic, I think most boat owners would be advised to buy a copy of the factory service manual for their engines.The manual helps with the general maintenance stuff and for troubleshooting too. It identifies what all the parts are & where they go and should help save you from being fed a line of BS from some "expert mechanics" & other sources. Another thing I'd suggest is finding out abt. parts availability for your engine. Given reasonable maintenance, the diesels used as aux. power will theoretically last for thousands of hours , but some parts will eventually fail. Usually there's little trouble in getting the 'smaller' bits, but after 30+ years, engine castings may be unavailable from distributors.Given your admitted lack of experience, I wouldn't recommend that you tackle the injection pump rebuild yourself ( a lot of specialized tools may be required & the machined tolerances are very tight etc ) but there are specialized shops that service pumps & injectors for trucks, industrial equip't & marine: if you refer to the manual you should be able to yank injectors or the pump and take it for service yourself.......that'll save a lot of $$ over having a mechanic do the same thing and charging you an extra % over the shop charges.