Hello again everyone... Ok now it should become apparent that one of my major tasks after getting back from my deployment was to get the boat back up and running well. It was never in that bad of shape, but there were quite a few things that I just couldn't get to before I left about seven months ago... and now I'm deep in the process of getting them fixed. ...anyway about the autopilot. I have a Hunter 340 and it came equipped with an Autohelm/Raymarine ST4000+ wheel pilot. I've had the boat about a year and the autopilot worked pretty reliably for the first year I owned the boat. It would occasionally get confused in following seas and that frustrated me but otherwise I could usually count on it (I would say it worked reliably about 80% of the time). Anyway on the way back from Catalina just before my deployment the whole system went to hell. I didn't know what happened at the time it just stopped steering all of a sudden and I had to find my way manually back to San Diego harbor. At the time it stopped working I could still hear the motor running trying to correct the boat but it wasn't moving the wheel. I checked the clutch and it was engaged and there were no obvious problems that I could see. As it was late at night when this happened and on the open water I simply gave up the struggle and piloted back manually. ...so fast-forward seven or eight months to today and I'm taking apart the system to see if I can figure out what is wrong. I take the wheel ring off and pull out the motor and when I can't see anything wrong with these I begin taking the motor column apart. When I get the motor out it looks fine but then I begin looking at the gears that the motor connects to and I notice that four of these little gears are stripped and suddenly I understand why I was hearing the motor run but not seeing the wheel move. ...ok here at long last is my question: Can I get these little quarter inch gears from Raymarine? Or should I look into a new autopilot? Also anyone have any idea why these gears would have stripped? Has this happened to anyone else? I have read the archives and it seems there are very mixed reviews in the ST 4000+. Some people love it and others absolutely swear it is the biggest POS they have ever owned. The other question I have is my local West Marine has a discontinued ST 4000 MK II for sale to the tune of $400. I was thinking that perhaps I could just replace my old unit with this one and just be done with it if I can't get these gears I need. I realize the ST 4000 has been discontinued so I'm guessing getting the gears might be an issue. So in the end my questions are these: 1) Can I get these little gears from Raymarine? 2) Would it be better to replace my unit with the one from West Marine for $400...? Or would I just have the same problems a year later with the new unit? 3) Should I just scrap the whole thing and go with a hydraulic below decks autopilot because I'm going to keep throwing money and time at these wheel pilot units? Thanks everyone... -Levin
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Get The $400 One
I would look into the $400 MK unit its the updated model to the 4000. You could give ray customer service a call but I think the MK is a steel for $400,see what they get for the updated model. I do believe adding a hydraulic unit is very difficult to install on your model boat,can't hurt to have extra complete auto you could sell parts you don't need. nick
I would look into the $400 MK unit its the updated model to the 4000. You could give ray customer service a call but I think the MK is a steel for $400,see what they get for the updated model. I do believe adding a hydraulic unit is very difficult to install on your model boat,can't hurt to have extra complete auto you could sell parts you don't need. nick
Raymarine ST4000+
Some comments on the above unit. 1. It has worked well in the 3 years I have had the boat. 2. Has been a little noisy lately, maybe those little gears are wearing on mine. 3. Raymarine spare parts are outrageously expensive. I know as I bought a new lever and pin for my unit two years ago. 4. If I transmit on my handheld VHF standing behind the wheel, my ST4000+ sends the boat hard to port. If I stand in the cockpit by the companionway and transmit, no problem. 5. The $400 blowout unit seems a hell of a deal. 6. The ST6000 is about $1,300 I think, up here at least. Peter
Some comments on the above unit. 1. It has worked well in the 3 years I have had the boat. 2. Has been a little noisy lately, maybe those little gears are wearing on mine. 3. Raymarine spare parts are outrageously expensive. I know as I bought a new lever and pin for my unit two years ago. 4. If I transmit on my handheld VHF standing behind the wheel, my ST4000+ sends the boat hard to port. If I stand in the cockpit by the companionway and transmit, no problem. 5. The $400 blowout unit seems a hell of a deal. 6. The ST6000 is about $1,300 I think, up here at least. Peter
Autopilot
I was able to get a drive gear from Raymarine. Customer service was not any help, so I went to their parts section and got what I needed.
I was able to get a drive gear from Raymarine. Customer service was not any help, so I went to their parts section and got what I needed.
Autopilot woes
Levin, Having pretty much completely rebuilt my st 4000, I finally gave up and got the st 4000 Mk II. I am soo glad I did. It is compatible with your st 4000 control head. The power cable will have to be changed cause it doesnt match. And you will have to move the motor slightly. I got a piece of 1/4 inch starboard to go over old mounting. Came out well. You will be much happier with the new motor and Raymarine will probably charge you more than it is worth to patch up your old one. Im in San Diego too so if you want to see my mod, email me and we can go from there. Cheers Rick
Levin, Having pretty much completely rebuilt my st 4000, I finally gave up and got the st 4000 Mk II. I am soo glad I did. It is compatible with your st 4000 control head. The power cable will have to be changed cause it doesnt match. And you will have to move the motor slightly. I got a piece of 1/4 inch starboard to go over old mounting. Came out well. You will be much happier with the new motor and Raymarine will probably charge you more than it is worth to patch up your old one. Im in San Diego too so if you want to see my mod, email me and we can go from there. Cheers Rick
Future News
1) You'll snap up the $400 deal. 2) You'll try to get the replacement parts from Ray Marine, and discover you can't. 3) You'll keep the old unit for spare parts. 4) You'll be happy. Just checked Don's link, & the gear kit is not in stock. I believe it will never be in stock again.
1) You'll snap up the $400 deal. 2) You'll try to get the replacement parts from Ray Marine, and discover you can't. 3) You'll keep the old unit for spare parts. 4) You'll be happy. Just checked Don's link, & the gear kit is not in stock. I believe it will never be in stock again.
Autopilot woes
Oh and Levin, before you do what Anchor Down recommends
, go to Ebay or just Google, the part number off of the Raymarine site. I cant remember it but im thinking... well I cant remember so look it up. I got mine on line for 400 and change.. no tax. Just the wheel pilot is all you need. Thanks Anchor Down.. I totally concur. Hey at least its not a thousand! Cheers Rick
Oh and Levin, before you do what Anchor Down recommends
, go to Ebay or just Google, the part number off of the Raymarine site. I cant remember it but im thinking... well I cant remember so look it up. I got mine on line for 400 and change.. no tax. Just the wheel pilot is all you need. Thanks Anchor Down.. I totally concur. Hey at least its not a thousand! Cheers Rick
Levin, start here:
Google, do archive searches, get into ANY Catalina Association website and SEARCH on ST4000. You have a LOT of reading to do. By doing that, you will answer your questions. Needs done, nuff said.
Google, do archive searches, get into ANY Catalina Association website and SEARCH on ST4000. You have a LOT of reading to do. By doing that, you will answer your questions. Needs done, nuff said.
So the MK II it is...
Hello everyone... So getting the MK II sounds like the way to go. Hopefully someone else hasn't snatched it up in the last couple of days. I like the idea that it won't be too hard to put together and that it is in most ways compatable with my old ST 4000+ unit. I'll keep the spare parts and then if this ever happens again at least I have them in reserve to fix the unit with. ...0h and Rick if they do have the unit I may be taking you up on that offer to see what you did with yours. Hopefully looking at your setup will help me figure out how to fit the MK II into the old ST 4000 instaliation. Thanks again everyone... -Levin
Hello everyone... So getting the MK II sounds like the way to go. Hopefully someone else hasn't snatched it up in the last couple of days. I like the idea that it won't be too hard to put together and that it is in most ways compatable with my old ST 4000+ unit. I'll keep the spare parts and then if this ever happens again at least I have them in reserve to fix the unit with. ...0h and Rick if they do have the unit I may be taking you up on that offer to see what you did with yours. Hopefully looking at your setup will help me figure out how to fit the MK II into the old ST 4000 instaliation. Thanks again everyone... -Levin
How important is your autopilot???
In my case, my autopilot is one of the most important pieces of equipment onboard. It is more important than refrigerator, TV, etc. Furthermore, because I sail alone or with my family most of the time, it is one of the most important safety devices on the boat. So for me the autopilot must work under the worst of conditions not just fair conditions..... With that said, I offer the following perspective, I choose to install the best system I could afford and forgo other things onboard... I talked with many boat owners and manufactures before purchasing and installing the unit on Sea Dragon. Most owners I spoke with had two complaints about their unit; a) it did not perform well in following seas or b) did not perform well under strong winds/heavy seas. When quizzed, the manufactures acknowledge these problems but, they were quick to pointed out that the problem could be traced to either an under sized autopilot and/or lack of a gyro (key to working with following seas). Raymarine and B&G both did the following calculations to come up with the proper size unit. Round up the Sea Dragon’s displacement to the nearest thousand pounds then added 20% to get the minimum rating for the unit... Next, if the minimum rating is close to the max rating of the unit, they stepped up to the next size... So the 4000 MK II will meet the requirements for minimum displacement. Next the core pack should have either a built in gyro or input for a gyro... Not the case with the MKII.. So you will most likely have problems with following seas.. Next your options are the Raymarine S1 with an optional GyroPlus Yawl sensor or going with a below deck unit with a different core pack.... The below deck will also provide the added safety feature of serving as a backup steering system should you have a steering cable failure. Just my thoughts http://www.sailingseadragon.com/AutoPilot.htm Good luck....
In my case, my autopilot is one of the most important pieces of equipment onboard. It is more important than refrigerator, TV, etc. Furthermore, because I sail alone or with my family most of the time, it is one of the most important safety devices on the boat. So for me the autopilot must work under the worst of conditions not just fair conditions..... With that said, I offer the following perspective, I choose to install the best system I could afford and forgo other things onboard... I talked with many boat owners and manufactures before purchasing and installing the unit on Sea Dragon. Most owners I spoke with had two complaints about their unit; a) it did not perform well in following seas or b) did not perform well under strong winds/heavy seas. When quizzed, the manufactures acknowledge these problems but, they were quick to pointed out that the problem could be traced to either an under sized autopilot and/or lack of a gyro (key to working with following seas). Raymarine and B&G both did the following calculations to come up with the proper size unit. Round up the Sea Dragon’s displacement to the nearest thousand pounds then added 20% to get the minimum rating for the unit... Next, if the minimum rating is close to the max rating of the unit, they stepped up to the next size... So the 4000 MK II will meet the requirements for minimum displacement. Next the core pack should have either a built in gyro or input for a gyro... Not the case with the MKII.. So you will most likely have problems with following seas.. Next your options are the Raymarine S1 with an optional GyroPlus Yawl sensor or going with a below deck unit with a different core pack.... The below deck will also provide the added safety feature of serving as a backup steering system should you have a steering cable failure. Just my thoughts http://www.sailingseadragon.com/AutoPilot.htm Good luck....
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