Autopilot drive interface

Feb 18, 2022
440
Catalina 36 Port Orchard
With a 2 wire system and no sensor for feedback there is no way for the controller to determine where the 0 point is located. Also with only 2 wires this is a simple DC motor, R+ and B- go one direction where R- and B+ go the other. A stepper motor would have at least 3 wires, usually 5 and that could use different input voltages to reference a different position. A standard DC motor is not capable of that function. So that being said what is being used as the feedback loop for the system? It may be just a compass built into the AP that blindly moves the rudder to see where the deviation is and then uses the compass signal as the feedback. This approach is mechanically simple but software wise more complex. It doesn’t require external hardware and if fairly user friendly as it is self calibrating. The software that performs the locating and self calibrating on the other hand is far more complex, and some engineer at the factory has tackled that job for us already.

The more common way is the use of a rudder position sensor. The 4v 0v 8v you are talking about sounds to me like there is a sensor somewhere in the system giving the voltage in reference to the rudder’s angle. This is usually done with a potentiometer and 3 wires. V+, G, Signal. This allows the AP to know where the rudder is and thus much simpler calculations as to where the corrections need to be made to move the rudder. Slightly more complex in the mechanical aspects but far simpler in the software side.

Im guessing you may already know all of this, but if not there ya go. Now about the Arduino setup. You want to keep the existing motor drive with the new AP. Ok… what is needed more than anything else is the specs from the original motor drive. What is the amperage and voltages it is designed to work at? Being a simple 2 wire DC motor makes things really simple, but the driver chips in the new AP will need to be suited for that motor. Newer DC motors can perform the same amount of work with far less energy used, and thus the driver chips in the AP are not going to be as robust. This equals cheaper, but not necessarily cheap. If your old motor is rated at 12v 2a for example and your new AP can handle a 12v 5a DC motor you are good to go, just plug and play, your motor will never ask for more than 2 amps thus the drivers will be well within their design limits. Remember it’s the motor that will determine the needs of the driver.

If you have a motor that is rated at 12v 2a again but your new AP can handle an output of 12v 1a, it is not a good match. You may be thinking this will never give my motor too much power so I will be safe, but you would be wrong. With an output of only one amp, the motor will constantly be trying to pull 2a and thus running your drivers at full or even over full capacity, and this will release all that smoke the designers put into those chips. Again it’s the motor that determines the needs of the driver.

So with all of this, i hope it helps understand what the needs will be for developing your new system. As someone who tinkers with Arduino devices (mainly for model railroad automation) it would be interesting to see what you come up with.
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I just want to know what input typical Raymarine/Simrad/B&G/etc. drive units take. Is it a simple +V left, 0V center, -V right interface or do they use an NMEA or proprietary serial interface?
Your AP drive unit is a below-decks drive, so it requires a four wire interface to be driven by typical Raymarine/Simrad/B&G/etc. pilots. Two of the wires are for the clutch. You can see the clutch in the block diagram you supplied. These two wires are energized to engage the clutch. It is a magnetic clutch, and the polarity of the wires energizing it are not important, as long as current flows in the electromagnet, the clutch will engage. These circuits are typically fused for 2A.

The other two wires are to drive the DC motor. One polarity drives the motor on one direction, and if you reverse the polarity, the motor goes in the other direction. This circuit is typically fused for 10 or 20A. You would have to test your motor and clutch to determine the current requirements, but know you'd have to test the motor under load. Best to fuse at the stall current. The AP will know which way to drive the motor.


How hard would it be to adapt the output from a modern autopilot to my old but modified drive unit?
It would be easy. Just cut out that circuit board completely, and make connections to the motor and clutch, as above.
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,768
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Oh, I'm over complicating this. My old AP only sends low current direction signal to the drive unit. The 12VDC power to drive it comes in separately.

So AP drive unit motors normally just take power directly from the AP?

It is a 12VDC brushed 10A motor, so if I find an AP that can provide 12VDC up to 10A direct to my drive unit motor I'm good to go.
 

Den D

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May 1, 2022
3
nelson marek one off San Diego
Benmar S Drive units have been the best electrical mechanical drive unit for many years.... refer to the old 7 Seas Cruising Association literature.

I have interfaced these drive units to multiple brains: ComNav, Furuno, and B&G "brains"..... and probably more over the past 30 years. I've sailed thousands of miles with them on several boats..... including our own 50'+ cutter and a 70' Sparkman Stephen Ketch. Benmar S Drive units have been flawless.

I discard the circuit boards inside the drive unit...... wire the motor and clutch directly to "brains". The brains will have a power supply, often separate. The power supply has to be rated large enough to handle the peak motor current..... same with the clutch.

The brains will have programable rudder limits...... Use them. I also use the built in Limit Switches on the drive unit as a backup to interrupt power to the drive unit and or clutch (via a relay(s)).
 
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DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,768
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Thanks @Den D that is the information I was looking for. So it sounds like the Furuno, B&G autopilots have the motor controller built in and a clutch output to the drive unit. Do you have a sketch showing how you wired up the limit switches with the relays?
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,306
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
I definitely need to learn as much as possible in this subject. No idea where I'll have to use it yet, but my gut tells me I'll need it... ;)

dj
 

Den D

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May 1, 2022
3
nelson marek one off San Diego
Follow the specific instructions for whose ever control head (brains) you use. The instructions will tell you how much power the control head will deliver.... and if you need a motor controller for the big motor in the S drive unit. I believe the "really, really" old Benmar S drive motors may be a different style than the later ones which are permanent magnet motors. ,

In the attached picture, the PM on the name plate means permanent magnet..... this happens to be a 24 vdc motor. That boat had one olderr B&G autopilot and one new ComNav interfaced to the same S drive. I have two 12 vdc S drives in our boat, one for a ComNav and the other for a Benmar 2000. Those two systems are independent, they don't share drive units. One of my motors is a Honeywell, the other I believe is Scientific Atlanta.

I've sailed many
DSCN6112.JPG
thousands of miles on both these boats.

The permanent magnet style is easier to reverse than one that has field windings.... just reverse + and minus -. If there are field windings, you reverse either the power to the armature or the field to change rotation.... not both.
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,768
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Mine has a 12V, 10A Honeywell PM motor. The motor runs fine but the control boards weren't working so I pulled them out. I do have a much more modern motor controller but it sounds like I may not need it depending on the control head I get.
S Power Unit Motor.jpg
 

Den D

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May 1, 2022
3
nelson marek one off San Diego
Yes...... you may be right. I have no idea what you have other than an Benmar S Drive.

Remember you need to accomodate peak amps.... which are significantly more than 10 amps..... probably at least double the 10 amps

Find someone knowleageable with the proper clamp-on amp meter with a peak hold function, or in-rush mode to measure motor starting current.

Start the motor under as full a load as you can arrange..... a motor controller needs to be able to handle in-rush with capacity to spare.

I have no financial ties to Comnav....... but I'd recommend buying ComNav equipment and using your S Drive unit. Because I know that works..... and have dealt with problems on numerous "yacht" grade autopilots.

Comnav has a range of commercial quality equip to chose from.

When I added a 2nd autopilot to our sailboat years ago I chose ComNav and added a 2nd Benmar S drive unit. Our system uses a ComNav CT2 Motor Controller good for 40 amps. Comnav equipment has been flawless. I believe some of the newer ComNav's will power the Benmar S drive without the need for a CT2.

I have installed ComNav autopilots on a number of other yachts, both power and sail, up to 126' with various steering systems.... crossed oceans with them...... including some that use Benmar S type.
 
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