I am looking to put an autohelm on my 36'. I know of the 4000 and have heard some good and some bad about it. Is there an alternative to the 4000? Is the next step up " 6000" big bucks? I am looking to place the autohelm below if possible but have heard that is a real big job. I already have Raymarine 50 series basic instruments with "SeaTalk" whatever that is. Our Beneteau is 11600lbs. Comments....
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Like Mine
Replaced the Navico (Simrad) autopilot on my Hunter 37' (17,600 pounds)about four years ago with a ST4000, with Raymarine 60 instruments, and Radar/Chartplotter. Have been pleased with the performance and the seatalk integration. Does not work that well in following seas, but Iam told few wheel autopilots do. Never heard of anyone mounting a ST4000 below deck.
Replaced the Navico (Simrad) autopilot on my Hunter 37' (17,600 pounds)about four years ago with a ST4000, with Raymarine 60 instruments, and Radar/Chartplotter. Have been pleased with the performance and the seatalk integration. Does not work that well in following seas, but Iam told few wheel autopilots do. Never heard of anyone mounting a ST4000 below deck.
Funny you should be asking
I just bought a new Simrad WP30 cx for my Newport 30, the unit is rated for a much bigger boat than i have. However the wp10 doesn't have the NEMA connections. They had a working set up at the Toronto boat show and i was really impressed how easy it was to set up and that it looked like a better build unit than the st4000. I did alot of reaserch and was leaning towards the 4000 until i saw it in action at the show. They also have a new modle this year a WP32 which is for a boat up to 40'and 19000lbs
I just bought a new Simrad WP30 cx for my Newport 30, the unit is rated for a much bigger boat than i have. However the wp10 doesn't have the NEMA connections. They had a working set up at the Toronto boat show and i was really impressed how easy it was to set up and that it looked like a better build unit than the st4000. I did alot of reaserch and was leaning towards the 4000 until i saw it in action at the show. They also have a new modle this year a WP32 which is for a boat up to 40'and 19000lbs
Here's one more data point for you, Paul
We have now been through 3 wheel-mounted autopilots (not that I'm bragging about it, mind you...) and hope this might be helpful. FYI our WHOOSH is 11 tons and 13M/42' LOA, far in excess of any wheel pilot's rating...but most of our self-steering is done by a Sailomat vane with or without a Raymarine 1000+ tillerpilot. Our wheel pilot is used for straight motoring and light sailing conditions, if then. Navico/Simrad WP300 - purchased in 2000 and used for perhaps 3000NM, Chesapeake Bay and ICW (twice) - intermittant contact failures that led to loss of reliable steering; clutch release gave us some problems when the above failures happened and the helm loaded up; the pedestal-mounted plastic molding was done poorly and, after a second unit was sent but also mis-molded, I had to 'remanufacture' it; contact failures were repaired under warranty but some grousing from the FL Simrad folks; it now sits under the V berth as an 'ultimate' (reluctant) spare CPT - across the Caribbean and one TransAtlantic plus local N European cruising; perhaps 7,000 NM but used in the same sparing way as described above; supposedly the 'tractor' of wheel pilots; we named ours Boris because it looked like/performed like it was of ex-Russian military heritage; it failed to hold course due to motor creep any time the helm loaded up with even light weather helm; either its course sensitivity and/or steering controls were pretty coarse and having it hold course within 5 degrees (just motoring) was the best we could hope for. IMO it's not surprising that Scanmar has abandoned building these, after purchasing the rights from Charles Pukit, the original CPT inventor/owner. I have 2 spare belts if anyone's interested. Raymarine 4000+ - had one airshipped to Kiel, Germany in 2004 (CPT plastic gears in the compass finally gave up); used for perhaps 2000NM to date in the Baltic and North Sea (but again, used only as described above); the electronic design thinking is entirely different (from Simrad unit) with the control module bulkhead mounted and intended to be integrated with other electronics; (hidden) belt comparable in size/design to Simrad unit; cluth mechanism appears to be stronger; I'm very impressed with its performance to date and notice it seems stronger than the Simrad. However, rate of course correction is slow (note the small muffin fan-like motor) and you can only expect so much control from it, even on small boats, in heavy air and big seas. I'd grade the 3 units, overall and to include the performance of the companies which are behind them, as 'C', 'F' and 'A' respectively. Hope that helps. Jack
We have now been through 3 wheel-mounted autopilots (not that I'm bragging about it, mind you...) and hope this might be helpful. FYI our WHOOSH is 11 tons and 13M/42' LOA, far in excess of any wheel pilot's rating...but most of our self-steering is done by a Sailomat vane with or without a Raymarine 1000+ tillerpilot. Our wheel pilot is used for straight motoring and light sailing conditions, if then. Navico/Simrad WP300 - purchased in 2000 and used for perhaps 3000NM, Chesapeake Bay and ICW (twice) - intermittant contact failures that led to loss of reliable steering; clutch release gave us some problems when the above failures happened and the helm loaded up; the pedestal-mounted plastic molding was done poorly and, after a second unit was sent but also mis-molded, I had to 'remanufacture' it; contact failures were repaired under warranty but some grousing from the FL Simrad folks; it now sits under the V berth as an 'ultimate' (reluctant) spare CPT - across the Caribbean and one TransAtlantic plus local N European cruising; perhaps 7,000 NM but used in the same sparing way as described above; supposedly the 'tractor' of wheel pilots; we named ours Boris because it looked like/performed like it was of ex-Russian military heritage; it failed to hold course due to motor creep any time the helm loaded up with even light weather helm; either its course sensitivity and/or steering controls were pretty coarse and having it hold course within 5 degrees (just motoring) was the best we could hope for. IMO it's not surprising that Scanmar has abandoned building these, after purchasing the rights from Charles Pukit, the original CPT inventor/owner. I have 2 spare belts if anyone's interested. Raymarine 4000+ - had one airshipped to Kiel, Germany in 2004 (CPT plastic gears in the compass finally gave up); used for perhaps 2000NM to date in the Baltic and North Sea (but again, used only as described above); the electronic design thinking is entirely different (from Simrad unit) with the control module bulkhead mounted and intended to be integrated with other electronics; (hidden) belt comparable in size/design to Simrad unit; cluth mechanism appears to be stronger; I'm very impressed with its performance to date and notice it seems stronger than the Simrad. However, rate of course correction is slow (note the small muffin fan-like motor) and you can only expect so much control from it, even on small boats, in heavy air and big seas. I'd grade the 3 units, overall and to include the performance of the companies which are behind them, as 'C', 'F' and 'A' respectively. Hope that helps. Jack
Raymarine Autopilots
Paul, The ST4000+ MarkII is a good unit for the bucks and job for which it was intended. The reason you have heard some bad things about it is because there are a lot more of them out there. Response times are a bit slow, but not a big deal except in following seas. This is a wheel pilot so you can't mount it below decks. The next step up is Raymarine's new entry below decks system. It is modular system. You pick the control head you like, the course computer you want and the power unit that you need. Check the RM website for the skinny on this system. Below decks unit will perfom better, respond quicker and cost over double the ST4000. Can be owner installed if you are handy with that sort of thing, but more complex than the wheel pilots. We have an ST4000+ MarkII on our B321 and find it reliable, response is slow at times. Jon McClain
Paul, The ST4000+ MarkII is a good unit for the bucks and job for which it was intended. The reason you have heard some bad things about it is because there are a lot more of them out there. Response times are a bit slow, but not a big deal except in following seas. This is a wheel pilot so you can't mount it below decks. The next step up is Raymarine's new entry below decks system. It is modular system. You pick the control head you like, the course computer you want and the power unit that you need. Check the RM website for the skinny on this system. Below decks unit will perfom better, respond quicker and cost over double the ST4000. Can be owner installed if you are handy with that sort of thing, but more complex than the wheel pilots. We have an ST4000+ MarkII on our B321 and find it reliable, response is slow at times. Jon McClain
deoends on your expectations. those i know who want something to handle the boat instead of keeping their hand on the helm seem to be universally pleased; those who expected an aircraft standard autopilot for $800 have not.
Next step down
You may consider the Autohelm 3000. Works great for our C34, no interface, just a good basic unit, costs less, if still available. I'd read enough horror stories about the 4000 to simply replace my old 3000 with a newer one. Couldn't' be happier, it does all the work. Try a forum archives search on ST3000 and you'll probably hit my earlier posts on this. Would work perfectly on your C36. Does hav a belt to a separte motor on the Edson pedestal. Stu
You may consider the Autohelm 3000. Works great for our C34, no interface, just a good basic unit, costs less, if still available. I'd read enough horror stories about the 4000 to simply replace my old 3000 with a newer one. Couldn't' be happier, it does all the work. Try a forum archives search on ST3000 and you'll probably hit my earlier posts on this. Would work perfectly on your C36. Does hav a belt to a separte motor on the Edson pedestal. Stu
One of the issues with the 4000 (in my opinion) is that it's a "system" autopilot that needs to be set to the boat, all dealers don't set it up correctly, and the instructions from raymarine are not intuitive! you need to tailor the settings-for example, Hunters with their large rudder planes seem to work better with the steering type set to "2", for hydraulic, even though it's clearly not! you can also add a rudder position indicator and/or a gyrocompass to improve performance. Set up correctly, they work well. Your best bet is to find someone with your boat that's done it, and ask questions
Agree with Chuck
I like my 4000 MKII(33 foot Hunter) but it did come from the dealer installed but not set up. I had to read the instructions a few times to *tune* it correctly. For us it works pretty well until the loads on the rudder start to pick up. At that point I probably want to be running things anyways. Also, forget following seas situations. I like the autotack feature when single-hand sailing. I hope to experiment more this year with the windvane mode which follows the wind (and shifts) rather than a fixed heading.
I like my 4000 MKII(33 foot Hunter) but it did come from the dealer installed but not set up. I had to read the instructions a few times to *tune* it correctly. For us it works pretty well until the loads on the rudder start to pick up. At that point I probably want to be running things anyways. Also, forget following seas situations. I like the autotack feature when single-hand sailing. I hope to experiment more this year with the windvane mode which follows the wind (and shifts) rather than a fixed heading.
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