Just bought a 1988 34' Catalina and want to install an autopilot, Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Bill S/ v Paradise
Auto Pilot
- Thread starter WILLIAM SLOAN
- Start date
Welcome to the forum. Be prepared for a plethora of answers and suggestions. 
Start with the first question, What type of sailing do you intend to do? Short daysails, fair weather weekends, ocean passages?
Assuming you want to use an electric auto pilot the basic choice is between a wheel pilot and a below decks pilot, each have advantages and limitations.
Tell us your intended use and you will get more relevant answers.
Start with the first question, What type of sailing do you intend to do? Short daysails, fair weather weekends, ocean passages?
Assuming you want to use an electric auto pilot the basic choice is between a wheel pilot and a below decks pilot, each have advantages and limitations.
Tell us your intended use and you will get more relevant answers.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,806
Welcome William to the SBO. Congrats on the Catalina. Is this an upgrade from the Irwin?
Did you have an AP on the Irwin?
Looking forward to the dialogue about your new boat. Pictures are always encouraged.
Did you have an AP on the Irwin?
Looking forward to the dialogue about your new boat. Pictures are always encouraged.
Welcome William. With your new boat, you might also be interested in the active C34 forum. Here's an example:
There's over 30 years of C34 expertise on our website, with many other autopilot threads. Use the simple search engine on the upper right box.
How you use your boat is a key question.
There's over 30 years of C34 expertise on our website, with many other autopilot threads. Use the simple search engine on the upper right box.
How you use your boat is a key question.
Funny, it's hard to imagine this isn't a troll thread, given first post and this topic! It's like starting an oil thread on an automotive forum.
That said, it's really not about what kind of sailing you plan on doing, unless cost is factored in. You can get the best autopilot possible, good for all conditions your boat can handle, and which will also serve as an emergency helm if the steering system breaks, for about $5,000, installed: a below-decks pilot. That's about $3,500 for the parts, and $1,500 for installation. Could be less to install if your boat has the mounting points for the linear drive.
If you can't afford that, or don't want to spend the money, then you can go for a "wheel pilot" which won't be able to handle all situations, and won't serve as an emergency helm. That will cost $1,500 and about $500 to install, or install it yourself.
And, in my opinion, that's all there is to it!
That said, it's really not about what kind of sailing you plan on doing, unless cost is factored in. You can get the best autopilot possible, good for all conditions your boat can handle, and which will also serve as an emergency helm if the steering system breaks, for about $5,000, installed: a below-decks pilot. That's about $3,500 for the parts, and $1,500 for installation. Could be less to install if your boat has the mounting points for the linear drive.
If you can't afford that, or don't want to spend the money, then you can go for a "wheel pilot" which won't be able to handle all situations, and won't serve as an emergency helm. That will cost $1,500 and about $500 to install, or install it yourself.
And, in my opinion, that's all there is to it!
So, are you saying that even if the OP doesn't intend to sail in the kinds of conditions where the below decks units shine, he should still spend the money on a below decks unit?Funny, it's hard to imagine this isn't a troll thread, given first post and this topic! It's like starting an oil thread on an automotive forum.
That said, it's really not about what kind of sailing you plan on doing, unless cost is factored in. You can get the best autopilot possible, good for all conditions your boat can handle, and which will also serve as an emergency helm if the steering system breaks, for about $5,000, installed: a below-decks pilot. That's about $3,500 for the parts, and $1,500 for installation. Could be less to install if your boat has the mounting points for the linear drive.
If you can't afford that, or don't want to spend the money, then you can go for a "wheel pilot" which won't be able to handle all situations, and won't serve as an emergency helm. That will cost $1,500 and about $500 to install, or install it yourself.
And, in my opinion, that's all there is to it!
And then there are choices to be made about the AP regardless of the type chosen.
It's only money.
Sure, if he has the dough. Why not? People get stuck in conditions they don't intend to.
I would recommend you go with a below deck autopilot. If too pricey, a wheel mounted model is your next option. I have a Raymarine EV100 which is cheaply made and uses thin cheap plastic on its wheel attachment. ( just finished repairing mine again) . Just google Raymarine EV100 on you tube and you will see the issues. It does work with sea talk if you want that, set up is over complicated. The only other option that I know of is the CPT wheel pilot which many have said is works well. It doesn't connect to seatalk. Sometimes simplier is better. It also has an exposed belt which many dislike. If I was in the market, I would go with the CPT.
My Raymarine below deck auto pilot is wonderful. Works well even in following seas.
What a wonderful welcome to a serious question. /sFunny, it's hard to imagine this isn't a troll thread, given first post and this topic! It's like starting an oil thread on an automotive forum.
I posted that link with this text:
...An example. I did NOT recommend he install a below decks autopilot on his C34, I was using it as an example of the boat specific info he can make himself aware of. Why? 'Cuz if he does decide to do it, that link is a perfect example of how our C34 website, in addition to this fine forum, can help him.
Since he starts by asking about what options he has, then a CPT is a fine choice, too, left out of jviss' unfortunate reply, but one which Sanfelice got right. If I was going to replace my old ST3000
that's what I'd go for on my C34. I even visited CPT when I lived in California, great guys. It's a much better AP wheel unit than RM's toy. RM's below deck is just fine. There are more than two options, William.
Stu, you apparently have no sense of humor. That first sentence was meant to be humorous. I wouldn't call my reply unfortunate for that.What a wonderful welcome to a serious question. /s
I posted that link with this text:
...An example. I did NOT recommend he install a below decks autopilot on his C34, I was using it as an example of the boat specific info he can make himself aware of. Why? 'Cuz if he does decide to do it, that link is a perfect example of how our C34 website, in addition to this fine forum, can help him.
Since he starts by asking about what options he has, then a CPT is a fine choice, too, left out of jviss' unfortunate reply, but one which Sanfelice got right. If I was going to replace my old ST3000
I've looked into the CPT pilot and it seems like a vintage piece of equipment that has somehow lived on. As I recall it doesn't interface to anything, and, at the end of the day, it's still a wheel pilot, at about 1/3 more than Raymarine.
Even with your
in your "troll": post, I didn't get your "humor." Maybe you should work harder on being friendly and/or funny.The CPT is a well regarded autopilot, in many cases favored by offshore sailors (think Cruisers Forum skippers).
Yes, it doesn't "integrate" but some folks simply choose not to do so. It is what is called an Option, for William to consider. And no, it's "not still a wheel pilot" in comparison to RM because it is far stronger with a much larger motor and belt. IIRC, RM may be the only maker of wheel pilots left other than CPT. CPT is still in business because of a quality product, I believe.
William, if you are still interested in the different varieties of autopilots available let us know. I apologize for the thread drift from your OP.
@Stu Jackson's comment about the simplicity of a CPT is important. While it doesn't integrate with other electronics, the lack of integration protects it from failure due to some other part of the network failing. A 34' boat is approaching the upper limits of a RM Wheel Pilot, a limitation the CPT does not have. This makes the CPT a good candidate for someone who needs the power of a below decks AP but needs to spend their funds on other more important devices.Even with your
The CPT is a well regarded autopilot, in many cases favored by offshore sailors (think Cruisers Forum skippers).
Yes, it doesn't "integrate" but some folks simply choose not to do so. It is what is called an Option, for William to consider. And no, it's "not still a wheel pilot" in comparison to RM because it is far stronger with a much larger motor and belt. IIRC, RM may be the only maker of wheel pilots left other than CPT. CPT is still in business because of a quality product, I believe.
William, if you are still interested in the different varieties of autopilots available let us know. I apologize for the thread drift from your OP.
I didn't say "in comparison to RM," I said it's still a wheel pilot, which it is, the most important aspect of which, in my opinion, is that if the steering gear fails, it's no help steering the boat, as opposed to below decks pilots; not to mention all that clutter and exposed mechanism on the wheel.
I think that's so, since Simrad exited that market.
There are other benefits to integrated pilots, too, not least of which is the heading information on the bus, which one's AIS can use, as well as one's chartpoltter/radar. Otherwise you'd have to install a separate heading bug.
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Except that's NOT all there is to it, is there?
Thanks, Dave, for pointing out the optional approaches different skippers have to "integration."
And others have made the point(s) that failures of below decks units DO actually occur, so the simplicity of access to an above decks pilot has advantages. I read recently where a below decks unit support and/or linkage failed, immobilizing the entire steering system.
But the point here is not to point out the drawbacks of one over the other, nor our personal preferences and/or conclusions, which you seem to continually keep doing.
I thought the idea was to give William options.
Below deck or wheel pilot
Anemic RM or robust CPT
Integrated or not
Those are the beginnings of his choices.
I own a Catalina 34 and have for almost 25 years. I know these boats and what has worked for C34 skippers for the past 30 years. I can point William to various C34-specific solutions and options. I can outline the basic options he has available from what is on the market, new or, what did you call it, "vintage piece of equipment that has somehow lived on"? With good reason: it is a good piece of equipment. My personal conclusions and biases are immaterial to the question of what is available. These are commercially available units.
There are more "roll your own" solutions, too, discussed in greater length on CF, for example, this c&p from a topic that came up today about general electronics:
...autopilot. If you are going the DIY way you can use PyPilot on the R Pi and add the driver and motor. Or get a Pelagic autopilot, which is inexpensive, very effective, and is independent of the other electronics. If you must have one that interconnects and can do waypoints and routes then get out the wallet... "
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William said "...want to install an autopilot, Any suggestions greatly appreciated."
I gave him my view. I don't know why you have a problem with that, other than it's not your view. Fine, give him your view, no need to counter mine, or start an argument.
To William, I have no idea what your budget may be. If it will only afford a wheel pilot, then you have the two choices Stu points out, unfortunately. Everyone else who made these has exited the market. Of the two, were I to choose, I prefer the CPT for its strength. I had many experiences with a Raymarine pilot, actually, the Autohelm predecessor, where, just when you really wanted an AP, it wasn't strong enough to manage the steering. Note that the CPT is about 1/3 more in cost than the Raymarine kit. That said, if your budget will allow, the below decks setup is vastly superior, in my opinion. But, it's about twice the price, maybe more, depending on the complexity of the installation of the drive unit. Some boats have it designed-in. Stu can tell you if that's the case for your boat. I paid about $1,000 for the fiberglass work to put the drive unit into my Catalina 36, not to mention the approximately $500 for an Edson bronze tiller arm. But, once you have it, if you have a steering gear failure you can steer the boat with the autopilot. I have had a steering gear failure! Better maintenance and adjustment can prevent that, but there it is. I connectorized my linear drive and carry a spare unit so I can swap it out in about five minutes should it fail. The Raymarine linear drives have a chronic problem with nylon gears failing. As Stu alludes to, you should make sure you can yank that drive out if it jams. This is accounted for in the standard attachment points for these, all quick pull-ins, one even spring loaded. And, keep loose things out of the compartment or area where the steering gear lies.
My below deck autohelm has failed while underway. Should not try to fix at sea, so you're stuck w/manual steering until making harbor. The failure was one due to bone-headed installation when the boat was new to me. Once you get it set-up correctly and inspect it periodically it's reliable.
The failure was the nut holding a bolt that fastened the hydraulic level arm to the quadrant came off. The bolt dropped out; the arm came off the quadrant. Steering failure. Solution--double nut on that bolt!! Problem solved.
when the boat was new to me. Once you get it set-up correctly and inspect it periodically it's reliable.The failure was the nut holding a bolt that fastened the hydraulic level arm to the quadrant came off. The bolt dropped out; the arm came off the quadrant. Steering failure. Solution--double nut on that bolt!! Problem solved.
A couple of things. First, I don't think you should connect the drive to the quadrant; Edson is quite adamant about this. I used, as recommended, a separate bronze tiller arm. Second, mine was set up with a spring-loaded clevis pin with a hitch pin over a washer holding it in, so one can pull the pin in case of a jammed drive unit to free it up.My below deck autohelm has failed while underway. Should not try to fix at sea, so you're stuck w/manual steering until making harbor. The failure was one due to bone-headed installation
The failure was the nut holding a bolt that fastened the hydraulic level arm to the quadrant came off. The bolt dropped out; the arm came off the quadrant. Steering failure. Solution--double nut on that bolt. Problem solved.
I can slap-in that spare drive underway, as long as I'm not single-handing, or even then, if I can balance the boat with the sails, or heave-to.
Budget, budget. Always budget. Advise your best reommendation, then let the chips where they fall, IMO. In the end it's about value as we know it rather than simple cost.
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