Auto Pilot Steering

Terry Cox · Sep 29, 2015

Our 1991 P42, 35,000 displacement, came equipped with an Autohelm 7000 Course Computer, linear drive motor, rudder sensor and a 6000 head. We have sailed her thousands of miles since taking possession in 2002. This very strong and reliable system continues to perform marvelously. Maybe someday it will stop, but until it does we will keep sailing on.

Do you have a rudder sensor installed? A rudder sensor might help the wandering part. Perhaps changing some of the system parameters might help. These system should maintain a heading once set. Is it just snaking or does it actually go off course?

Meriachee · Sep 29, 2015

Is the compass calibrated properly? Your message doesn't indicate that the motor is having any difficulty turning the wheel, which would indicate that the controller is having a hard time relating a direction. That could be as simple as something ferrous placed close to the compass module. Alternately, did it calibrate properly last time you ran the routine?

Don Lucas · Sep 30, 2015

Lander said:
It gradually goes of course, first a couple of degrees, then more. I find that If I wait until it is about 10 degrees, I can hit the 10 course change button, wait until it gets back onto the course a set, and re-set the course. Makes my wake look intoxicated...

What do you mean when you say it is "off course"? The course the AP is steering and course the boat is going are rarely the same. I replaced my old Autohelm 6000 last year with a newer Raymarine SPX10 below deck unit. It steers the boat great and I normally run it at a response level of 3 (out of 10). But it my be steering a course 10-20 degrees different from what the compass is reading due to drift etc. So the AP might be saying is steering 200, but the boat compass says we are on course 215.

kloudie1 · Sep 30, 2015

Lander, I fought calibration of my 4000+ for several years before installing a rudder position sensor. After installation, the system worked as I thought it should.. Rudder inputs from the computer became much smaller and I was able to get it to hold a real course. I think it has to do with how quickly our fin-keel/spade rudder boats turn and how fast the wheel-to-rudder connection is.. I see advertisements that the newest ones have been improved a lot by using solid state gyros in addition to the flux gate, but I haven't used one. The old literature for the 4000 stated that it didn't need a RPS but after a lot of conversation with RayMarine, they said I'd be a lot happier if I installed one.... and I was..

Terry Cox · Sep 30, 2015

An interesting point on our boat with autopilot steering in connection with a chart plotter and rudder sensor is when I plot a waypoint some distance away with cross current and cross wind pressure. Even though the autopilot maintains the plotted course to the waypoint, it will steer the boat to a 30-50 degrees compass course in order to arrive at the waypoint on target. It always amazes me when I see the system doing it, but it does a much better job than manually steering.

Whether that is what you are dealing with, perhaps. Either way our rudder sensor makes a big difference in autopilot performance.

Terry Cox · Oct 1, 2015

FWIW, our boat displaces 35,000 pounds and the linear drive electric motor handles the steering just fine even in higher winds, say up to 20 MPH. Above that I usually hand steer even though the motor is strong enough to handle it. It just seems that my anticipation of wind and wave action on boat handling is more precise than the delayed response from the autopilot especially when weather becomes gusty.

Also, our linear drive motor attaches to a separate Edson rudder post tiller arm, not to the steering quadrant.

bugsboat · Oct 2, 2015

Lander said:
Have managed to work out the details on how to install a below deck ram on my 1993 Hunter 375, but am still concerned about which control head, aka "brain" to employ. Currently have a Ray Marine EV 100 wheel pilot and even when the wheel pilot is not overpowered, (in light motor sailing conditions), the brain is unable understand which way to steer the boat to correct, when it inevitably wanders off course. Simply put, I am worried that I am going to add a new strong muscle to the same dumb ass brain at great expense. I do not have a rudder indicator currently installed. A local installer who has a great reputation says that good gyros have been integrated into the AP brain making rudder indicators unnecessary on anything but the high speed power sport boats... But my experience is "as if" the brain is lacking information to keep it on course. That's all I want, just hold the course. Sometimes I can just balance the boat, lash the helm and do better than either the Auto Helm EV100 or it's predecessor, the 6002 series. Thoughts? Being tired of fooling with Ray Marine, I am considering B&G control instruments.... What does anybody else use and have success with on boats displacing 17,500 plus..?

Our 1995 Hunter 37.5 has the x10 linear drive and we love it! Had to be careful with the fluxgate compass and placement. We have the ST 70 control head and it does a great job. Did you use a reversed boot for the ram? We put the motor in the port cockpit locker, drilled a hole to the quadrant and used a reversed boot to keep the locker dry. The ram is connected to the quadrant. I do not have a rudder sensor either, but so far I don't see a reason for one. Happy Sailing!

PAC3142 · Oct 2, 2015

Hey Bugsboat,
Could you post some pictures of your installation? I'm considering doing the same on my 1994 37.5.

Paul

bugsboat · Oct 5, 2015

I will take some pictures this week and post them as soon as I can. This was a interesting install; I had to climb down the starboard aft locker to install the extra support needed to bolt the linear drive unit on the port bulkhead between the propane locker and the locker forward of the propane locker. Raymarine and Hunter asked me to send them pictures and explanation of the install. I cordially refused. I paid a qualified Raymarine technician to help me with the install. This is not a simple installation and you will need to lay this out carefully. The ram is connected to the quadrant; this unit is very powerful and could do serious damage to the bulkhead if not supported correctly.

PGIJon · Oct 9, 2015

I basically had the same problem with my RM SPX-5 wheel autopilot. I took Claude's advice and installed Rudder Position indicator even though the documentation said it wasn't needed. I was finally able to test it in a blow and the difference is day and night! A zillion times better.

That said, if I had it all over to do again, I would have installed the linear drive.

-Jon

Maine Sail · Oct 9, 2015

Lander said:
Have managed to work out the details on how to install a below deck ram on my 1993 Hunter 375, but am still concerned about which control head, aka "brain" to employ. Currently have a Ray Marine EV 100 wheel pilot and even when the wheel pilot is not overpowered, (in light motor sailing conditions), the brain is unable understand which way to steer the boat to correct, when it inevitably wanders off course. Simply put, I am worried that I am going to add a new strong muscle to the same dumb ass brain at great expense.

This is what heppens without a rudder reference sensor and a good set up. A good set up is usually beyond the "auto tune" s tunrs the boat makes to automatically adjust itself.

Lander said:
I do not have a rudder indicator currently installed. A local installer who has a great reputation says that good gyros have been integrated into the AP brain making rudder indicators unnecessary on anything but the high speed power sport boats...

As a Raymarine installer myself I WILL NOT install a Ryamarine AP without a rudder reference. I have done them but the owner signs off that I will not be making free warranty service calls for support of "does not steer well etc."... In the end nearly every install I've done winds up with a rudder reference sensor..

Lander said:
But my experience is "as if" the brain is lacking information to keep it on course. That's all I want, just hold the course. Sometimes I can just balance the boat, lash the helm and do better than either the Auto Helm EV100 or it's predecessor, the 6002 series.

But if the brain does not know where the rudder is it has one less "sense" to make the computations with. Go ahead take away one of your senses and let me know how you do. Sight, smell, touch, hearing...

Lander said:
Thoughts? Being tired of fooling with Ray Marine, I am considering B&G control instruments.... What does anybody else use and have success with on boats displacing 17,500 plus..?

I was steering a 20,000 pound boat with a wheel pilot for 8 years. It finally died this summer and a below deck linear drive was installed. The Ray pilots are good but they need to be installed correctly and set up correctly...... Your EV-100 sensor and control head are reusable so all you'll need is a rudder reference sensor, ACU-200, tiller arm and a linear drive.

Some thoughts:
* A linear drive will still do best with a rudder reference sensor.
* A linear drive will require a new control unit such as an ACU-200 because the ACU-100 (for wheel pilot) does not have clutch output.
* A linear drive will require a tiller arm from Edson or PYI (I prefer the Edson product). If anyone tells you that it can just connect to the radial drive, run don't walk!

This is pretty tough steering on an AP. I was solo sailing downwind flying a partially furled 150 genny in 27-33 knots. Wheel pilot steering nearly DDW perfectly. This is an S1G course computer with rudder sensor...

HarryvdMeer · Oct 23, 2015

Lander,
I just now read this thread. Your issues appear very similar to the trouble I have had with my Raymarine wheel pilot. Almost immediately after installing the system, I would have irratic behaviors. The pilot would hold course well for a long time and then suddenly it would go off course. I moved the fluxgate without any improvements. I installed a rudder sensor. No improvement either. I finally called Raymarine tech support. Support was great. They sent me the attached document. I tested the fluxgate and found it to be faulty. See attached results.

Raymarine sent me a new fluxgate. System has been great ever since.

Regards…

PGIJon · Oct 26, 2015

Sometimes with the RM wheel pilot, it's necessary to add the following option (see pic) to keep it working...

njlarry · Oct 26, 2015

Bet they charge a lot for that option.
In its second year my RM unit also has a tendency for the locking arm to disengage. Is there any other way to fix this?

PGIJon · Oct 26, 2015

Big Big Buck$$$$!! I adjusted the tension this morning... It's a very delicate balancing act with that tension setting.

Not sure if it applies to you but you may want to see an earlier post of mine... However you should read my later posts to that thread since I modified what I originally wrote.... http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/raymarine-wheel-pilot-fix.172949/#post-1227496

-Jon

woodster · Oct 26, 2015

njlarry said:
Bet they charge a lot for that option.
In its second year my RM unit also has a tendency for the locking arm to disengage. Is there any other way to fix this?

there was a thread awhile back about reinforcing some of the plates inside the wheel drive and i think it was to help with that problem there may also be a bulletin on that

sailingseadragon · Oct 26, 2015

I have an older S1G course computer (the "G" is critical = gyro for down wind performance) with a Type 1 Linear drive and 6001 control head along with a flux compass and a rudder sensor. Our boat displaces 17,700 but tips the scales each fall at haul out at just under 21,000 lbs loaded for the summer. I singlehand more than most, so I use the autopilot a LOT. For the most part I sail in "Wind Vane" Mode and motor to specific way points. This configuration will holds a course in all wind directions well into the high 20's. As others have suggested, I have found a sensitivity setting that is a balance between power consumption and a perfect course (currently set at 4).

Most recently I beat into 3-4 foot waves in 19-24 knot winds for 6.5 hours. without a problem - I could not have done this singlehanded with the autopilot. Our install is below.

http://www.sailingseadragon.com/AutoPilot.htm

Garner

Auto Pilot Steering

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