Hello all! Registered for the Boating course last night with CPSS. Anyhow, I inventoried my sails on the weekend, and much to my surprise there wasn't five sails that came with the boat, as I had been told, in fact there were 8 sails. All the sails seemed to look in good shape, keep in mind I am only using common sense when looking at them; the look slightly used but not abused and the spinnaer looks as though it has never been used. My question is regarding the auto furling sail, I like that it has a UV cover, but what do I do if I wanted to put a different sail in its place, but also be able to use the auto furler? can I have a UV patch sewn onto my existing sails, or is cheaper just to buy a new sail? Oh, one other question: I'm thinking hard of putting a marine head in the boat, in place of the porti-potty that I removed. What are the advantages of marine head over porti potty? There is no holding tank on the boat, so I'd have to rig one as well if I go the way of the marine head.
Auto-Furling sails
- Thread starter dwayne13628
- Start date
- Status
Furling Sails
Hi Dwayne, "Auto Furler" is a misnomer. As I tell all my clients, not trying to be smug, there is no such thing as a self furling sail. No system out there will do it for you, aside from hiring a captain. However, with that clarification, yes you can add UV protective covers to your other sails, for far less than a new sail. My suggestion would be to have your sails evaluated by a professional Sailmaker that you trust, to help you decide which sail(s) may warrant the addition of a cover. You may wish to have one larger LP sail, say 150% for the Summer light air days, and a smaller LP, say 100-110% for the windier spring and fall sailing days.
Hi Dwayne, "Auto Furler" is a misnomer. As I tell all my clients, not trying to be smug, there is no such thing as a self furling sail. No system out there will do it for you, aside from hiring a captain. However, with that clarification, yes you can add UV protective covers to your other sails, for far less than a new sail. My suggestion would be to have your sails evaluated by a professional Sailmaker that you trust, to help you decide which sail(s) may warrant the addition of a cover. You may wish to have one larger LP sail, say 150% for the Summer light air days, and a smaller LP, say 100-110% for the windier spring and fall sailing days.
What kind of attachment on the various headsails?
I have added UV covers to a few headsails, doing the work myself. It really depends on what kind of attachment the sails have to the headstay. If the sails are all set up with a tape luff that fits in a groove in your roller furling then you are all set, you can just add the UV cover. If you have hanks on some sails and tape luff on others than you will not be able to use the hank on sails at all. You will need to cut off the luff and add a tape luff. This is a much bigger job as you have to lay out the correct shape to the luff. Sailrite has instructions on-line on how to add a UV cover and also on how to cut down the luff to remove hanks and add a tape luff. Dave
I have added UV covers to a few headsails, doing the work myself. It really depends on what kind of attachment the sails have to the headstay. If the sails are all set up with a tape luff that fits in a groove in your roller furling then you are all set, you can just add the UV cover. If you have hanks on some sails and tape luff on others than you will not be able to use the hank on sails at all. You will need to cut off the luff and add a tape luff. This is a much bigger job as you have to lay out the correct shape to the luff. Sailrite has instructions on-line on how to add a UV cover and also on how to cut down the luff to remove hanks and add a tape luff. Dave
SailCare
I had SailCare add new uv strip to my genoa and uv triangle on furling main when I sent the sails in for cleaning/reconditioning. They did a fine job.
I had SailCare add new uv strip to my genoa and uv triangle on furling main when I sent the sails in for cleaning/reconditioning. They did a fine job.
misnomer!!!
Wait a minute, the salesmen told me these things worked by divine intervention...LIAR! LOL, seriously though thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if I was using the correct terminology, just remember hearing them refered to as Auto furlers...and like an ear-worm, it stuck. I don't think I saw hanks on the jibs, and Genoa. What is the difference between a jib and Genoa, is it just the amount of "camber" in the sail? and how do I know that I am looking at a Ganoa, and not just another jib? I took the sails out but didn't measure any of 'em.
Wait a minute, the salesmen told me these things worked by divine intervention...LIAR! LOL, seriously though thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure if I was using the correct terminology, just remember hearing them refered to as Auto furlers...and like an ear-worm, it stuck. I don't think I saw hanks on the jibs, and Genoa. What is the difference between a jib and Genoa, is it just the amount of "camber" in the sail? and how do I know that I am looking at a Ganoa, and not just another jib? I took the sails out but didn't measure any of 'em.
more on furling sails
Dave's reply offers some good advice below. If the sails were made to hank on then luff tape must be installed. Also if they were cut full hoist before the furler was installed they will need to be shortened since the furler eats up some room on the headstay. Furling genoas are typically built a little heavier than hank on genoas since they need to take the loads while reefed so your old genoa may not make a good conversion anyway. With regards to the UV cover; if you are keeping the boat in Ontario and it is a short season you may not need the UV cover (assuming you take the sail off in the off-season). Since you are starting out with used sails you will likey find the sails will wear out before the sun gets to them anyway. Use what you have and save your money for a new purpose bult furling genoa. And please follow Tims advice and stop calling it an "auto furler" ....unless that's a Canadian term eh?
Dave's reply offers some good advice below. If the sails were made to hank on then luff tape must be installed. Also if they were cut full hoist before the furler was installed they will need to be shortened since the furler eats up some room on the headstay. Furling genoas are typically built a little heavier than hank on genoas since they need to take the loads while reefed so your old genoa may not make a good conversion anyway. With regards to the UV cover; if you are keeping the boat in Ontario and it is a short season you may not need the UV cover (assuming you take the sail off in the off-season). Since you are starting out with used sails you will likey find the sails will wear out before the sun gets to them anyway. Use what you have and save your money for a new purpose bult furling genoa. And please follow Tims advice and stop calling it an "auto furler" ....unless that's a Canadian term eh?
Jib vs Genoa
Head sail sizes are basically measured by the length of their foot in relation to your boat's foredeck. Then they are referred to by their size (percentage). For example: 1) Let's assume the length from the stem fitting to the mast is 10 feet. 2) If the foot of the sail is also 10 ft, then it is 100% of the foredeck. 3) If the foot is 8 ft, it is 80%. 4) If the foot is 13 1/2 ft, it is 135%, etc. A "storm jib" is typically a "75" or "80" jib. A "working job" is about a "100". A genoa is anything over 100%, but common sizes are 135 and 150. Therefore, the foot of the genoa extends aft beyond the mast. The beauty of the roller furling is that you can adjust the sail size as needed. I have a 150 on my furling system but I can roll it in to any smaller size I want. Granted that the smaller sizes don't have the optimum sail shape, but we cruisers don't care. We aren't out there for optimum speed, I'll gladly trade a tenth knot of speed for the the ease of use. I hope this makes sense. Sincerely, Capt Jim
Head sail sizes are basically measured by the length of their foot in relation to your boat's foredeck. Then they are referred to by their size (percentage). For example: 1) Let's assume the length from the stem fitting to the mast is 10 feet. 2) If the foot of the sail is also 10 ft, then it is 100% of the foredeck. 3) If the foot is 8 ft, it is 80%. 4) If the foot is 13 1/2 ft, it is 135%, etc. A "storm jib" is typically a "75" or "80" jib. A "working job" is about a "100". A genoa is anything over 100%, but common sizes are 135 and 150. Therefore, the foot of the genoa extends aft beyond the mast. The beauty of the roller furling is that you can adjust the sail size as needed. I have a 150 on my furling system but I can roll it in to any smaller size I want. Granted that the smaller sizes don't have the optimum sail shape, but we cruisers don't care. We aren't out there for optimum speed, I'll gladly trade a tenth knot of speed for the the ease of use. I hope this makes sense. Sincerely, Capt Jim
Jib / Genoa
I think a genoa is just a large jib. I use the term genoa to describe a jib that has more sail area than say 130%. Smaller than 100% I call a storm jib. I wonder if there is any technical distinction other than the relative size? If you had a porta-potty, I would continue to use one, at last for a while, unless you had a good reason to replace it with a marine head. I've heard of people changing the other way because it is too easy to get an unpleasant smell when you don't pump out often enough. I had that problem on my boat when I purchased it last summer and it was a mfer to get it solved. I also have the problem that there is only one place on our lake to pump out and they refuse to offer the service on weekends. When I leave the office early to get to the boat, it's not because I want to get to the pump out service! I would prefer to have the ability to manage this inconvenience myself with a porti-potty, but I have not switched, yet. My long-winded point is that you can't discharge into the lake, so have a good reason for switching before you do so. Maybe the porta-potty works best for your situation.
I think a genoa is just a large jib. I use the term genoa to describe a jib that has more sail area than say 130%. Smaller than 100% I call a storm jib. I wonder if there is any technical distinction other than the relative size? If you had a porta-potty, I would continue to use one, at last for a while, unless you had a good reason to replace it with a marine head. I've heard of people changing the other way because it is too easy to get an unpleasant smell when you don't pump out often enough. I had that problem on my boat when I purchased it last summer and it was a mfer to get it solved. I also have the problem that there is only one place on our lake to pump out and they refuse to offer the service on weekends. When I leave the office early to get to the boat, it's not because I want to get to the pump out service! I would prefer to have the ability to manage this inconvenience myself with a porti-potty, but I have not switched, yet. My long-winded point is that you can't discharge into the lake, so have a good reason for switching before you do so. Maybe the porta-potty works best for your situation.
3 weeks of summer in Ontario
I think the 3 weeks of summer so far have yielded 45 days of + 90° days. I know of at least a couple of sails that were scrap after a few months with no UV protection in Ontario. With your length of experience sounds like a local sail maker (Sarnia or Toronto) could help you. If you have not bought new sails they want $15 a sail to check & refold. I would just pick the best looking one abd go sailing. After a year off sailing you will a lot. Also no some sails have white UV cover that only work when you roll the sail on the correct direction.(UV on outside) I have also seen a UV tube that can be pulled up over any sail. Any used boat that has duplicate sails usually means on was replace when it wore out but not thrown away.
I think the 3 weeks of summer so far have yielded 45 days of + 90° days. I know of at least a couple of sails that were scrap after a few months with no UV protection in Ontario. With your length of experience sounds like a local sail maker (Sarnia or Toronto) could help you. If you have not bought new sails they want $15 a sail to check & refold. I would just pick the best looking one abd go sailing. After a year off sailing you will a lot. Also no some sails have white UV cover that only work when you roll the sail on the correct direction.(UV on outside) I have also seen a UV tube that can be pulled up over any sail. Any used boat that has duplicate sails usually means on was replace when it wore out but not thrown away.
Sorry Capt Jim, but that's not exactly right.
When using a percentage to describe headsail size, sailmakers are referring to the LP or luff perpendicular, NOT the foot measurement. For a complete explanation, follow this link: http://www.cruisingdirect.com/LP_Measure.htm or enjoy the complete instructional section on this website by following this link: http://www.cruisingdirect.com/InstructionalPage.htm
When using a percentage to describe headsail size, sailmakers are referring to the LP or luff perpendicular, NOT the foot measurement. For a complete explanation, follow this link: http://www.cruisingdirect.com/LP_Measure.htm or enjoy the complete instructional section on this website by following this link: http://www.cruisingdirect.com/InstructionalPage.htm
It ain't necessarily so...
There is an alternative to having luff tape added to the sail, and it is a lot cheaper: Brian Cleverly sells the "Kiwi Slide" which consist of a slug that fits in the foil tape groove and that has webbing attached which can be sewed or tied to the existing hank grommets. This allows any sail to be adapted to a #6 or larger groove - you will need as many of them as you have grommets. Jim is right, you might have to have the tack of the sail altered to match the furling drum, however.
There is an alternative to having luff tape added to the sail, and it is a lot cheaper: Brian Cleverly sells the "Kiwi Slide" which consist of a slug that fits in the foil tape groove and that has webbing attached which can be sewed or tied to the existing hank grommets. This allows any sail to be adapted to a #6 or larger groove - you will need as many of them as you have grommets. Jim is right, you might have to have the tack of the sail altered to match the furling drum, however.
- Status