Over the winter I bought a PFD W/Harness a single Tether with a winchard hook and a jackline. I am embarrassed to say that I cant quite figure out how best to attach the jackline to the boat and what knot to use. My intention was to run the jackline down the center and tie it off somewhere near the cockpit so that I can be attached to the jackline while being able to hold the tiller. By running the jackline down the center, I am able to get to both sides of the boat with my tether - it's not too beamy. What do I attach the head of the jackline to - rail or the cleat? If so what knot do I use? If I run the jackline down the center where do I attach the end point? To the mast? To far from the cockpit? I’d prefer not to run 2 jacklines down the sides – will I be forced to do this after all?
Attaching a jackline
- Thread starter Tony5898
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Tony
Full disclosure: I dunno, but I gotta ask. Will you use the jackline to go forward? If so, I think you need two, or you have no choice which side to move on. I would tie off to a cleat, rather than a perforated toe rail, if the point is to save my life. My final two cents, before the pros weigh in, is that in my climbing days, we used to have "lobster tail" tethers. You'd could move around by unclipping one, re-attaching elsewhere and repeating, until you got where you needed to be. Just a thought....
Full disclosure: I dunno, but I gotta ask. Will you use the jackline to go forward? If so, I think you need two, or you have no choice which side to move on. I would tie off to a cleat, rather than a perforated toe rail, if the point is to save my life. My final two cents, before the pros weigh in, is that in my climbing days, we used to have "lobster tail" tethers. You'd could move around by unclipping one, re-attaching elsewhere and repeating, until you got where you needed to be. Just a thought....
Tether
There is something to be said for either a single or a double jack line. IMHO A single forces you to untie to get around the mast and go forward. There fore I chose to run two, so I can get forward on either side of the boat, without ever being completely unhooked. When in the cockpit, and really need to be tied in, I hook up to both, if by myself. This makes sure the tether isn't long enough for me to hit the water should I go over. A little inconvenient, but not nearly as much as being dragged through the water at five or six knots. I do use the toe rail, as the first priority here is strength and safety. A cleat will also work if located in the right places, or even a winch in a pinch, but I would never trust a rail with my life.
There is something to be said for either a single or a double jack line. IMHO A single forces you to untie to get around the mast and go forward. There fore I chose to run two, so I can get forward on either side of the boat, without ever being completely unhooked. When in the cockpit, and really need to be tied in, I hook up to both, if by myself. This makes sure the tether isn't long enough for me to hit the water should I go over. A little inconvenient, but not nearly as much as being dragged through the water at five or six knots. I do use the toe rail, as the first priority here is strength and safety. A cleat will also work if located in the right places, or even a winch in a pinch, but I would never trust a rail with my life.
What we do
and by the way, taking advice (including from me) on this subject DEFINATELY falls under the "think for yourself because your life could depend upon it" catagory. Anyway, I think either cleats or toerails are fine as long as you know how the hardware is backed. We've done both. Just remember that the instantaneous dynamic loads of an adult fetching up hard on a jackline will run into the thousands of pounds (I'll let you real engineers figure it out for me.) In our pre-dodger days we ran a low-stretch line on each side of the coachroof starting with two round turns, a bowline and two half-hitches on a bow cleat running back to a cockpit cleat. With this setup we could reach the line and clip in before emerging from the companionway and remain so from the helm station to the bow. It worked pretty well. Now that we have a dodger in the way (and I AIN'T giving THAT up) we use West Marine's flat webbing jacklines that have a loop sewn into each end. It's relatively inexpensive and is rated for 7000 lbs. I use a very large D-shackle to attach to the toerail at each end (from bow to midway back past the cockpit.) The shackles eliminate chafe and are rated for at least as much as the webbing. The toerail is through-bolted every few inches with 1/4" stainless bolts. If I ever come up on this set up hard enough to break it loose I'll be a dead man anyway. I've also since installed three backplated Wichard folding padeyes in the cockpit because the current set up is out of reach from the companionway and I still wanted the ability clip in/out while standing inside. We lived with low-stretch line (Stay-Set X) for a couple years without problems. Some say it'll roll underfoot but if thats a big issue you probably don't have any business walking about the deck of a spaghetti-strewn sailboat anyway and if it's REALLY snotty you'll be on hands and knees while going forward. That being said, I really like the WM webbing. It's very soft, lays nicely on the deck, plenty strong and stows in a tiny little bag. I think your idea of putting a line down the centerline or near it is fine except that you'll face the dilemma of where to terminate the aft end. The mast is way too far forward. You'll want to be clipped onto the line before leaving the cockpit. With the center run line you'll hopefully fetch up short on the tether should you fall or get washed to the rail. With a line on each deck you'll typically go forward on the weather side for the same reason, you want that tether to yank you up short BEFORE you get to the lee rail and beyond. Hope this helps.
and by the way, taking advice (including from me) on this subject DEFINATELY falls under the "think for yourself because your life could depend upon it" catagory. Anyway, I think either cleats or toerails are fine as long as you know how the hardware is backed. We've done both. Just remember that the instantaneous dynamic loads of an adult fetching up hard on a jackline will run into the thousands of pounds (I'll let you real engineers figure it out for me.) In our pre-dodger days we ran a low-stretch line on each side of the coachroof starting with two round turns, a bowline and two half-hitches on a bow cleat running back to a cockpit cleat. With this setup we could reach the line and clip in before emerging from the companionway and remain so from the helm station to the bow. It worked pretty well. Now that we have a dodger in the way (and I AIN'T giving THAT up) we use West Marine's flat webbing jacklines that have a loop sewn into each end. It's relatively inexpensive and is rated for 7000 lbs. I use a very large D-shackle to attach to the toerail at each end (from bow to midway back past the cockpit.) The shackles eliminate chafe and are rated for at least as much as the webbing. The toerail is through-bolted every few inches with 1/4" stainless bolts. If I ever come up on this set up hard enough to break it loose I'll be a dead man anyway. I've also since installed three backplated Wichard folding padeyes in the cockpit because the current set up is out of reach from the companionway and I still wanted the ability clip in/out while standing inside. We lived with low-stretch line (Stay-Set X) for a couple years without problems. Some say it'll roll underfoot but if thats a big issue you probably don't have any business walking about the deck of a spaghetti-strewn sailboat anyway and if it's REALLY snotty you'll be on hands and knees while going forward. That being said, I really like the WM webbing. It's very soft, lays nicely on the deck, plenty strong and stows in a tiny little bag. I think your idea of putting a line down the centerline or near it is fine except that you'll face the dilemma of where to terminate the aft end. The mast is way too far forward. You'll want to be clipped onto the line before leaving the cockpit. With the center run line you'll hopefully fetch up short on the tether should you fall or get washed to the rail. With a line on each deck you'll typically go forward on the weather side for the same reason, you want that tether to yank you up short BEFORE you get to the lee rail and beyond. Hope this helps.
Either side?
I've always asked myself this question about this subject. We've always used the webbing that Rick described, and only put it on the starboard side. On our C25 we didn't have the reefing lines run aft, so that was the side the reefing gear was on the mast and boom and made sense. In any event, having the jacklines on only one side shouldn't preclude you from going to the other side once forward of the dodger, since the tether is usually long enough to allow you to scoot under the boom. Once you get forward of the mast it's just not an issue. We used a bowline through the bow cleat with a doubled half hitch on the stern cleat - easy to get the aft knot out since the first half hitch was tied like the second step on a shoelace. There's plenty of recent discussions about chest high jacklines in recent Cruising World and or Sail magazines, but they seem to require fastening (reeving) a D shackle on the upper shroud, and you'd require a double tether to switch if going forward (unless you detached there).
I've always asked myself this question about this subject. We've always used the webbing that Rick described, and only put it on the starboard side. On our C25 we didn't have the reefing lines run aft, so that was the side the reefing gear was on the mast and boom and made sense. In any event, having the jacklines on only one side shouldn't preclude you from going to the other side once forward of the dodger, since the tether is usually long enough to allow you to scoot under the boom. Once you get forward of the mast it's just not an issue. We used a bowline through the bow cleat with a doubled half hitch on the stern cleat - easy to get the aft knot out since the first half hitch was tied like the second step on a shoelace. There's plenty of recent discussions about chest high jacklines in recent Cruising World and or Sail magazines, but they seem to require fastening (reeving) a D shackle on the upper shroud, and you'd require a double tether to switch if going forward (unless you detached there).
Hey Stu,
yeah we need a line on either side. If the rail of the lee side is buried and that's where the jackline is it would be nice to have the option to move along the high side from the get-go. I don't know about your boat but Anthem is FAT. Our beam is 13'5" right about where the dodger is and when we're heeled a bunch that's a MOUNTAIN to climb, never mind the hassle and added potential for a problem when you have traverse twice to clip/unclip with a double tether so that you're always attached. Add to THAT that you've got to duck and dodge the boom AND rigid vang while you're doing it. I don't know, for my money, $100 for another line and a couple D-shackles on the other side is money well spent. I've read the discussions on the chest high jackline idea. I don't know, I just have visions of me clothes-lining myself when I trip as the boat lurches. It's a distinct possibility with me. I'd like to think I'm sure-footed but my mind is always writing checks my body can't cash.
yeah we need a line on either side. If the rail of the lee side is buried and that's where the jackline is it would be nice to have the option to move along the high side from the get-go. I don't know about your boat but Anthem is FAT. Our beam is 13'5" right about where the dodger is and when we're heeled a bunch that's a MOUNTAIN to climb, never mind the hassle and added potential for a problem when you have traverse twice to clip/unclip with a double tether so that you're always attached. Add to THAT that you've got to duck and dodge the boom AND rigid vang while you're doing it. I don't know, for my money, $100 for another line and a couple D-shackles on the other side is money well spent. I've read the discussions on the chest high jackline idea. I don't know, I just have visions of me clothes-lining myself when I trip as the boat lurches. It's a distinct possibility with me. I'd like to think I'm sure-footed but my mind is always writing checks my body can't cash.
don't get behind the boat
Something to keep in mind is where they jacklines terminate aft and how long your tether is. You don't want to go over the side and be behind the boat- you should still be able to reach the rail if you go over and are being towed by the line. Being towed behind the boat will be very difficult to climb back aboard. Just a thought, B
Something to keep in mind is where they jacklines terminate aft and how long your tether is. You don't want to go over the side and be behind the boat- you should still be able to reach the rail if you go over and are being towed by the line. Being towed behind the boat will be very difficult to climb back aboard. Just a thought, B
Four jacklines-2 tethers
When we go offshore we use two west marine flat jacklines that go from the forward cleat down the side and terminate in the stern area of the cockpit. We do not leave the salon area without being hooked up. When moving out of the cockpit, we hook to either side and go forward. We use two more jacklines outside the lifelines that run from the forward cleat, along the side and then behind the stern and across to the opposite side. These are fairly tight along the side. We use a single tether to move forward and carry a hooked up second tether folded and secured with rubber bands to the harness. Should someone go over the side, one hooks to the outside jackline with the second tether. When securely hooked, the first tether is released. One then slides along the boat to the stern and reenters through the swin platform via the ladder. We have thought this through and tried it on Kentucky Lake several times. This system works. Climbing back aboard if falling over the lifelines is almost impossible for older guys like me (58 with heart disease). You are also likely to get stuck midship due to the shrouds, but sliding along the side is very manageable. We use cleats to secure the looped lifelines. Whatever system you use, think it through entirely and then test it to see if you can recover should you fall overboard. With the boat moving through the water at 4 or 5 knots, it is unbelievable how much force the water exerts on your body. Jacklines sound like simple ideas, but the exection if you are actually overboard with little help on deck can be very hard.
When we go offshore we use two west marine flat jacklines that go from the forward cleat down the side and terminate in the stern area of the cockpit. We do not leave the salon area without being hooked up. When moving out of the cockpit, we hook to either side and go forward. We use two more jacklines outside the lifelines that run from the forward cleat, along the side and then behind the stern and across to the opposite side. These are fairly tight along the side. We use a single tether to move forward and carry a hooked up second tether folded and secured with rubber bands to the harness. Should someone go over the side, one hooks to the outside jackline with the second tether. When securely hooked, the first tether is released. One then slides along the boat to the stern and reenters through the swin platform via the ladder. We have thought this through and tried it on Kentucky Lake several times. This system works. Climbing back aboard if falling over the lifelines is almost impossible for older guys like me (58 with heart disease). You are also likely to get stuck midship due to the shrouds, but sliding along the side is very manageable. We use cleats to secure the looped lifelines. Whatever system you use, think it through entirely and then test it to see if you can recover should you fall overboard. With the boat moving through the water at 4 or 5 knots, it is unbelievable how much force the water exerts on your body. Jacklines sound like simple ideas, but the exection if you are actually overboard with little help on deck can be very hard.
Jerry, that's an unusual game plan
and my hat's off to you for being one of the few to have thought things through that far. I have to confess that even with the thought we've put into our set-up that I've not actually gone over (or through) the lifelines to try things out. My only question would be about boarding at the stern in a big seaway as the transom hammering the water could seriously injure someone attempting to board. We're going with a "get 'em over amindships with a block/tackle attached to the boom or halyard" arrangement. I assume you've read the on the water tests conducted on the West coast recently. It seems getting a COB to the boat isn't so tough, but that getting them on deck is the holy grail of the recovery process, especially with no additional crew. No easy answers for sure.
and my hat's off to you for being one of the few to have thought things through that far. I have to confess that even with the thought we've put into our set-up that I've not actually gone over (or through) the lifelines to try things out. My only question would be about boarding at the stern in a big seaway as the transom hammering the water could seriously injure someone attempting to board. We're going with a "get 'em over amindships with a block/tackle attached to the boom or halyard" arrangement. I assume you've read the on the water tests conducted on the West coast recently. It seems getting a COB to the boat isn't so tough, but that getting them on deck is the holy grail of the recovery process, especially with no additional crew. No easy answers for sure.
Stern Recovery
If you are sailing short handed, i.e. with only one other crewmember, then the crewmember in the cockpit prepares a Crew Overboard (COB) retrieval sling that is ready to be deployed if the crewmember that went up forward should fall overboard. The crewmember in the cockpit must not leave the cockpit. The crewmember in the cockpit must perform a COB retrieval and heave-to if the crewmember that went forward should fall overboard. The crewmember that fell overboard must swim or push-off the side of the hull if the sailboat is heeled over and does whatever it takes to get to the stern of the sailboat. If the second crewmember leaves the cockpit and goes to the aid of the first crewmember up forward, the possibility that both crewmembers being hung up forward and being lost is greatly increased. In most cases if you have to use a Jackline then the weather has gone to "Hell" and some line or sheet is jammed and you have to go forward to release it. If you depend on your diesel, under these conditions, there is a high probability that the sediment in your diesel tank is being kicked up due to the bad weather and might clog your filter and kill your engine if you tried using it. There is no way a shorthanded crew could use the boom or rig a hoist to pull in the COB amidships in bad weather with high winds and waves. The stern retrieval for a shorthanded crew is the best method, I agree with Jerry. You should always carry a knife if you have to cut yourself free. Fair Winds, Clyde
If you are sailing short handed, i.e. with only one other crewmember, then the crewmember in the cockpit prepares a Crew Overboard (COB) retrieval sling that is ready to be deployed if the crewmember that went up forward should fall overboard. The crewmember in the cockpit must not leave the cockpit. The crewmember in the cockpit must perform a COB retrieval and heave-to if the crewmember that went forward should fall overboard. The crewmember that fell overboard must swim or push-off the side of the hull if the sailboat is heeled over and does whatever it takes to get to the stern of the sailboat. If the second crewmember leaves the cockpit and goes to the aid of the first crewmember up forward, the possibility that both crewmembers being hung up forward and being lost is greatly increased. In most cases if you have to use a Jackline then the weather has gone to "Hell" and some line or sheet is jammed and you have to go forward to release it. If you depend on your diesel, under these conditions, there is a high probability that the sediment in your diesel tank is being kicked up due to the bad weather and might clog your filter and kill your engine if you tried using it. There is no way a shorthanded crew could use the boom or rig a hoist to pull in the COB amidships in bad weather with high winds and waves. The stern retrieval for a shorthanded crew is the best method, I agree with Jerry. You should always carry a knife if you have to cut yourself free. Fair Winds, Clyde
interesting thread here....
seems to be a lot differing opinion. What I'v read lately is that the stern is the most dangerous place to be in a pitching sea. Don't know about Kentucky lake, but the Pacific Ocean bounces a stopped boat around pretty easily on even a moderate day. I have a ladder back there, but there's also a prop and rudder. I think I'd rather crawl in over the lee, protected, side, on a cargo net. That said, as a single hander I would not choose to get wet at all. That would mean two jacklines on either side of the boat, with me hooked on to the windward, uphill jackline. This isn't my idea....it's recommended by the coast guard and every sailing expert I've read. The Annapolis Seamanship video series advocates this repeatedly. When you get to the pointy, narrow end stay on your hands and knees, the jacklines shouldn't be tied off too close to the nose of the boat, just close enough to allow your tether to be fully extended when you're up there. If you're frugal, then rather than pay 100 bucks to west marine for webbing, go over to REI and check out their UV protected, climbers webbing. It's the same thing at 1/4 the price.
seems to be a lot differing opinion. What I'v read lately is that the stern is the most dangerous place to be in a pitching sea. Don't know about Kentucky lake, but the Pacific Ocean bounces a stopped boat around pretty easily on even a moderate day. I have a ladder back there, but there's also a prop and rudder. I think I'd rather crawl in over the lee, protected, side, on a cargo net. That said, as a single hander I would not choose to get wet at all. That would mean two jacklines on either side of the boat, with me hooked on to the windward, uphill jackline. This isn't my idea....it's recommended by the coast guard and every sailing expert I've read. The Annapolis Seamanship video series advocates this repeatedly. When you get to the pointy, narrow end stay on your hands and knees, the jacklines shouldn't be tied off too close to the nose of the boat, just close enough to allow your tether to be fully extended when you're up there. If you're frugal, then rather than pay 100 bucks to west marine for webbing, go over to REI and check out their UV protected, climbers webbing. It's the same thing at 1/4 the price.
Don't have to go to stern
With the system I described above, you don't have to go to the stern if you can climb up the side. When I was 35 I could have probably just jumped back on deck, but at almost 59, I can't climb back on without assistance and I would rather take my chances on the stern - even in heavy waves - than have my other crew possibly fall in the water too. I do agree that the problem with this whole thing is getting back on the boat. Our thought was it was safer for all if it can be done by yourself if possible. With that in mind, heavy weather makes it all very difficult and more likely to happen. I also agree that Kentucky Lake is no match for the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico. Our max wave height is more like 4 or 5 feet. We tried our setup on the lake just to see how it would work and it was on a relatively calm day. It does work, but I suggest everyone try out their setup before needing to use it. Get out on a relatively calm day and go over and see what actually works and what happens. Think out what happens with the lines. I think you will be surprised how much effort it takes to get back in from the side - add movement from the boat, 8 to 10 foot waves and water drag and it would be very difficult. Just make sure whatever system you use, you thoroughly think out getting back on board. Also - probably doesn't need to be said, but make every effort not to rush and fall off in the first place.
With the system I described above, you don't have to go to the stern if you can climb up the side. When I was 35 I could have probably just jumped back on deck, but at almost 59, I can't climb back on without assistance and I would rather take my chances on the stern - even in heavy waves - than have my other crew possibly fall in the water too. I do agree that the problem with this whole thing is getting back on the boat. Our thought was it was safer for all if it can be done by yourself if possible. With that in mind, heavy weather makes it all very difficult and more likely to happen. I also agree that Kentucky Lake is no match for the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico. Our max wave height is more like 4 or 5 feet. We tried our setup on the lake just to see how it would work and it was on a relatively calm day. It does work, but I suggest everyone try out their setup before needing to use it. Get out on a relatively calm day and go over and see what actually works and what happens. Think out what happens with the lines. I think you will be surprised how much effort it takes to get back in from the side - add movement from the boat, 8 to 10 foot waves and water drag and it would be very difficult. Just make sure whatever system you use, you thoroughly think out getting back on board. Also - probably doesn't need to be said, but make every effort not to rush and fall off in the first place.
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