I would like to talk to people that have removed their Atomic 4 or universal motors from their 27' or 30' Catalina sail boats. 1. Why did you do it ?.... 2. Did you put a kicker on the stern and what kind of motor did you buy...? 3. Are you glad you removed your motor...? 4. Does your boat sail any different now that the engine is out of the boat...? Did you also remove the gas tank and controls...? Thank's for any input.....AJ.
Atomic 4 removal
- Thread starter DR.SNOOK
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Hunter never used the Atomic Four, having always had a strong relationship with Mack Boring in Union NJ, the foremost Yanmar diesel distributor on the East Coast.
I have heard of people taking out the trouble-prone (and parts-destitute) Renault 7/8-hp diesel in a Hunter 27 and going to an outboard. I think this is nuts. After a certain point (and I am saying that's 25 or 26 ft for a fin-keeled boat) the outboard ceases to be a convenience and starts becoming a downright liability. On my H25 two guys cannot go forward to pull down sails under power without hearing the ominous 'wawwOWWW, wawwOWWW' of the cavitation plate getting too near the surface. Keeping a supply of backup wrist pins on board is of little comfort in Barnegat inlet.
I would recommend a sail drive (see Volvo, Yanni Diesel, Westerbeke or even some of the gas engines). This can even be installed off-center to avoid the skeg like my boat has. If I had known about the simple gas-powered sail drive options I might have considered one for Diana (before remodeling the galley an under-cockpit area so that now I can't). Having an inboard, whenever possible, even on a pretty small boat (the 23-ft Stone Horse had one; so did the 20-ft Flicka), has all sorts of benefits. Herreshoff would have said, who needs it, it adds 'stink' and noise and complexity, etc.; but I say it adds cabin heat for cold weather, power generation for battery charging, and a power source for refrigeration, and all of that comes with much less hassle and cost by having the inboard than by some other way.
As for sailing characteristics, the absolute rule of thumb is to keep weight towards the center and away from the ends. Enough said there-- the outboard is a plain liability for handling even when it's turned off. And for when it's turned on-- all of us who have tried to reverse a sailboat into a slip in a crosswind when the outboard is aft of the rudder will agree wholeheartedly with me by now too.
I have heard of people taking out the trouble-prone (and parts-destitute) Renault 7/8-hp diesel in a Hunter 27 and going to an outboard. I think this is nuts. After a certain point (and I am saying that's 25 or 26 ft for a fin-keeled boat) the outboard ceases to be a convenience and starts becoming a downright liability. On my H25 two guys cannot go forward to pull down sails under power without hearing the ominous 'wawwOWWW, wawwOWWW' of the cavitation plate getting too near the surface. Keeping a supply of backup wrist pins on board is of little comfort in Barnegat inlet.
I would recommend a sail drive (see Volvo, Yanni Diesel, Westerbeke or even some of the gas engines). This can even be installed off-center to avoid the skeg like my boat has. If I had known about the simple gas-powered sail drive options I might have considered one for Diana (before remodeling the galley an under-cockpit area so that now I can't). Having an inboard, whenever possible, even on a pretty small boat (the 23-ft Stone Horse had one; so did the 20-ft Flicka), has all sorts of benefits. Herreshoff would have said, who needs it, it adds 'stink' and noise and complexity, etc.; but I say it adds cabin heat for cold weather, power generation for battery charging, and a power source for refrigeration, and all of that comes with much less hassle and cost by having the inboard than by some other way.
As for sailing characteristics, the absolute rule of thumb is to keep weight towards the center and away from the ends. Enough said there-- the outboard is a plain liability for handling even when it's turned off. And for when it's turned on-- all of us who have tried to reverse a sailboat into a slip in a crosswind when the outboard is aft of the rudder will agree wholeheartedly with me by now too.
With all respect, i would not agree with the merits of saildrives,
I have had or been involeved with 2 of them, If your drysailing the boat maybe, but for in the water use i think they are nuts.
You build in a ton of corrosion problems, you cant flush the engine with fresh water, you have dissimilar metels that really create a great source of problems. the stainless and aluminum just are constant pain in salt water. some models even rely on a rubber gasket to keep the water out of the boat. The seal breaks or drys out and then the boat sinks.
I agree the outboard leaves a lot to be desired too. try motoring against the current and wind in a four foot chop. everyother wave sinks the motor or pulls it out of the water where it races to max rpms.
The sail drives also provide the most drag under the water you could get. thats my two cents.
thats about all i got anyway so there you are!
I have had or been involeved with 2 of them, If your drysailing the boat maybe, but for in the water use i think they are nuts.
You build in a ton of corrosion problems, you cant flush the engine with fresh water, you have dissimilar metels that really create a great source of problems. the stainless and aluminum just are constant pain in salt water. some models even rely on a rubber gasket to keep the water out of the boat. The seal breaks or drys out and then the boat sinks.
I agree the outboard leaves a lot to be desired too. try motoring against the current and wind in a four foot chop. everyother wave sinks the motor or pulls it out of the water where it races to max rpms.
The sail drives also provide the most drag under the water you could get. thats my two cents.
thats about all i got anyway so there you are!
Well Ed, your points are all well taken. I am working with a guy now who has one in a 1978 Catalina 25 (nice little boat) and the head gasket went because you can't flush all the water out and eventually it leaked into the bottom cylinder and rotted out the gasket. But I think with some care, and maybe some modifications, like a freshwater flush-out system, they have many merits.
And a straight inboard is problematic in some installation scenarios.
The one thing I do worry about with sail drives is that HUGE hole in the bottom of the boat under which hangs a hunk of corrosible aluminium. Yet everyone tells me this rarely or never leaks. Hmmm.
And a straight inboard is problematic in some installation scenarios.
The one thing I do worry about with sail drives is that HUGE hole in the bottom of the boat under which hangs a hunk of corrosible aluminium. Yet everyone tells me this rarely or never leaks. Hmmm.
Just Saw on Ship Shape TV
A show where they installed a 3.0 diesel in place of a 5.0 gas engine the part that is relative here is the new Volvo outdrive has a composite housing. That may breath new life into the concept. Saildrives may make sense up where the boat is pulled every year anyway bit down here I would not have one.
A show where they installed a 3.0 diesel in place of a 5.0 gas engine the part that is relative here is the new Volvo outdrive has a composite housing. That may breath new life into the concept. Saildrives may make sense up where the boat is pulled every year anyway bit down here I would not have one.
Renault Removal/Yanmar Installation
I just recently removed my Renault 8 Hp engine and replaced it with a Yanmar 2GM. It was a fair amount of reconfiguring the engine mounting brackets and the purchase a new coupling, but I believe it will be worth it in the long run. I found the 2GM on this site by advertising. There are a number of 2GM20's available as well as a 3GM30. I am in the final stages of commissioning the engine. I am waiting for a Fuel Feed Pump and I should be ready to go.
The Renault had no available parts and was undersized for the H27. The Yanmar 2GM is twice the power (16 Hp) and has available parts through a variety of dealers. So far I have been working with Torrensen Marine, and they have been very helpful.
I should be starting the engine and launching next week...so the final result will not be known until then, but at present, everything is looking favorable.
I just recently removed my Renault 8 Hp engine and replaced it with a Yanmar 2GM. It was a fair amount of reconfiguring the engine mounting brackets and the purchase a new coupling, but I believe it will be worth it in the long run. I found the 2GM on this site by advertising. There are a number of 2GM20's available as well as a 3GM30. I am in the final stages of commissioning the engine. I am waiting for a Fuel Feed Pump and I should be ready to go.
The Renault had no available parts and was undersized for the H27. The Yanmar 2GM is twice the power (16 Hp) and has available parts through a variety of dealers. So far I have been working with Torrensen Marine, and they have been very helpful.
I should be starting the engine and launching next week...so the final result will not be known until then, but at present, everything is looking favorable.
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