I response to the request of some of you I will try to keep you informed on improving her qualities in order to get her ready for a crossing to the States. But first I want to introduce her to you. She is a Cherubini Hunter 27 build in 78. I bought her from the first owner, an uncle who had her for over 20 years. She was in a pretty bad shape when she changed owner; the engine was dead because of a broken gasketring, the rigging was old and had to be renewed, none of the navigational lights were properly working, sails were old, the interior was a mess, the rudder and tiller were in a bad state and some keelbolts were pretty rusty and eager to be replaced, all and all she looked pretty old and outworn for her age an a lot had to be done. Her price was fl. 10,000,- wich is close to $ 4,300. It took me three weeks to get her in a more or less sailable condition and because I did al the work myself the expences were not that high. The engine, a Yanmar SB8 caused me most of the headbreaking although replacemant of the gasketring would cost me less then $ 20 but 10 hours of work. The rigging was easily replaced and slightly thicker then the old one. A lot of work went into the replacemant of the electrical wiring and three keelbolts were renewed quickly. The mainsail was old but wellshaped so I only changed the jib wich had a furling system. The rudder cost me a lot of work as well but I managed to put a brace under and above the rudderholder in order to get rid of the friction. Now I was ready to sail her and I officially gave her the name "Seagull". She performed extremly well in several sailingmatches. Because this type of ship is totally unknown in this part of the world it put a lot of questionmarks on several sailors foreheads while passing them by. She speeds up well over the official hullspeed and I've clocked continues speeds up to 8.5 knots! I have to admit that this was in pretty strong winds and half-wind courses, but still.. Later, two years ago, I took her on trips to the Norh Sea, Denmark and France to check on her behaviour in more rough conditions. I noticed that she had a bit of trouble to keep course with strong wind and high waves. She was difficult to steer but it had all to do with the amount of sail I had set. After I changed that she was much easier to handle without giving in on speed. Before I went out for open water I equipped her with a VHF, a depthsounder, a SW radio, a Garmin GPS and a Navik selfsteering divice and a autohelm 2000, all second hand but working well. For my trip to the States I have to add a lot more. For now I want to improve the stiffnes of the hull by adding extra layers of glassfibre on the inside and change all rigging (again) for an even thicker kind of steel thread. I stop for now, I'm going for a short holiday to the U.K. and keep you posted. Please keep on giving your remarks and suggestions. Kind regards Oliver
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Looking forward to it.
Eagerly awaiting your posts, both regarding the trip and your upgrades. Sounds like you are nearly ready. Will you do anything with the plastic portlights? I have replaced all of mine with bronze but cannot recommend it. Maybe a cover of some kind for the really nasty weather? Not sure how you would attach them. I have used information from the attached website as a guide for offshore(Related Link). See both "Equipment" and "Preparation".
Eagerly awaiting your posts, both regarding the trip and your upgrades. Sounds like you are nearly ready. Will you do anything with the plastic portlights? I have replaced all of mine with bronze but cannot recommend it. Maybe a cover of some kind for the really nasty weather? Not sure how you would attach them. I have used information from the attached website as a guide for offshore(Related Link). See both "Equipment" and "Preparation".
hull stiffness
Olivier, how did you decide that the hull needed additional layup and why would you do it inside? Do you intend to strip the interior? Why not lay it up on the outside? Like Ed, I am very interested in your preparations which I hope you'll continue to share on this site. thanks
Olivier, how did you decide that the hull needed additional layup and why would you do it inside? Do you intend to strip the interior? Why not lay it up on the outside? Like Ed, I am very interested in your preparations which I hope you'll continue to share on this site. thanks
To Terry, Hull stiffness
Well, it's not my intension to make a thicker hull. The meaning of this has to do with the moment she was put on the blocks ashore. I noticed that the hull was slightly pressed to the inside. To prevent this I want to put these layers in between the interior mouldings. This should give enough protection to floating objects as long as they are not too pointy. I could do it from the outside but that would be a tremendous job by taking off the gelcoat etc. This way I don't have to take out the interior and save me some time and money. Regards Oliver
Well, it's not my intension to make a thicker hull. The meaning of this has to do with the moment she was put on the blocks ashore. I noticed that the hull was slightly pressed to the inside. To prevent this I want to put these layers in between the interior mouldings. This should give enough protection to floating objects as long as they are not too pointy. I could do it from the outside but that would be a tremendous job by taking off the gelcoat etc. This way I don't have to take out the interior and save me some time and money. Regards Oliver
To Ed, Portlights
You bring up a good subject. By one of my first anchor experiences with the H27 I accidentilly bumped the anchor to one of the portlights. It popped out immidiatly into the anchorbox wich has, as you know, an open connection with the V-berth. This made me thinking what a violent sea would do on open sea lying on lee-side. Therefore I put several sheets of fibreglass on the inside which prevents it from water coming in and keeping the plastic bulbs in its place. It does'nt show from the outside and leaves it in the original state. I've mounted an other combinated red/green on the bow. Untill now this works perfectly. Regards, Oliver
You bring up a good subject. By one of my first anchor experiences with the H27 I accidentilly bumped the anchor to one of the portlights. It popped out immidiatly into the anchorbox wich has, as you know, an open connection with the V-berth. This made me thinking what a violent sea would do on open sea lying on lee-side. Therefore I put several sheets of fibreglass on the inside which prevents it from water coming in and keeping the plastic bulbs in its place. It does'nt show from the outside and leaves it in the original state. I've mounted an other combinated red/green on the bow. Untill now this works perfectly. Regards, Oliver
To Oliver -- Hull strength on cherubinis
Oliver -- My boat is a 1977 Hunter 30. Construction is no doubt similar to the H27. On mine the tension on the shrouds causes a section of the hull located about 2 feet below the toe rail to buckle or dimple inwards. These dimples are about 1 foot in diameter and are centered opposite the end of the bulkheads to which the chainplates from the shrouds are attached. In bad weather you can see the hull flex at these points. If the bulkhead extended another 6 to 12 inches farther towards the bilge, I do not think this would happen. Have you noticed any such deformation on your hull? I would not feel comfortable in the open ocean until stiffening had been added to prevent this type of flexing. I am quite interested in how you have stiffened the hull. I also have been wondering whether age can cause a gradual weakening of the hull. It does not seem reasonable that a new hull would flex in this way. Henry
Oliver -- My boat is a 1977 Hunter 30. Construction is no doubt similar to the H27. On mine the tension on the shrouds causes a section of the hull located about 2 feet below the toe rail to buckle or dimple inwards. These dimples are about 1 foot in diameter and are centered opposite the end of the bulkheads to which the chainplates from the shrouds are attached. In bad weather you can see the hull flex at these points. If the bulkhead extended another 6 to 12 inches farther towards the bilge, I do not think this would happen. Have you noticed any such deformation on your hull? I would not feel comfortable in the open ocean until stiffening had been added to prevent this type of flexing. I am quite interested in how you have stiffened the hull. I also have been wondering whether age can cause a gradual weakening of the hull. It does not seem reasonable that a new hull would flex in this way. Henry
8.5 knts in a 27!??
I had a Cherubini H-27 and the only way it could get any where near 8.5 kts was on the trailer or if I dropped it out of a plane! Don
I had a Cherubini H-27 and the only way it could get any where near 8.5 kts was on the trailer or if I dropped it out of a plane! Don
For a stiffer hull
The original owner stiffened the hull on my 37 Cherubini by applying fiberglass at the numerous joints where bulkheads met the hull. He did that throughout the boat, but it is easiest to see inside the cabinetrry in the main cabin and in the aft lazerette. By doing that he was able to strengthen the hull to reduce the hull working too much, but maintain some flexibility. It seems to have worked fine, and 20 years later the reglassed bulkheads are still as good and firm as new. Another owner suggested putting stiffiening strips inside the V berth area to prevent oil-canning near the bow, but I do not knbow if that is practical or not. Good luck. We will all be eager to hear more about your project, and trip. Sanders LaMont s/v Good News Sacramento
The original owner stiffened the hull on my 37 Cherubini by applying fiberglass at the numerous joints where bulkheads met the hull. He did that throughout the boat, but it is easiest to see inside the cabinetrry in the main cabin and in the aft lazerette. By doing that he was able to strengthen the hull to reduce the hull working too much, but maintain some flexibility. It seems to have worked fine, and 20 years later the reglassed bulkheads are still as good and firm as new. Another owner suggested putting stiffiening strips inside the V berth area to prevent oil-canning near the bow, but I do not knbow if that is practical or not. Good luck. We will all be eager to hear more about your project, and trip. Sanders LaMont s/v Good News Sacramento
H27 Portlights
Olivier, are any of your portlights fixed? Your response to Ed Schenck has me a bit perplexed. From the photo attached to this reply, it appears that all of the H27 portlights open into the cabin and as I remember, there is an anchor locker forward of the cabin built into the deck. Does your boat look like this photo? If so which of the portlights did you knock out with an anchor?
Olivier, are any of your portlights fixed? Your response to Ed Schenck has me a bit perplexed. From the photo attached to this reply, it appears that all of the H27 portlights open into the cabin and as I remember, there is an anchor locker forward of the cabin built into the deck. Does your boat look like this photo? If so which of the portlights did you knock out with an anchor?
Attachments
Maybe an older model.
Terry: The older models of the Cherubinis had fixed portlights. I do not know the year but they changed them to opening portlights (probably circa 1977-78).
Terry: The older models of the Cherubinis had fixed portlights. I do not know the year but they changed them to opening portlights (probably circa 1977-78).
'Portlights'
From the context of what Mr van Mierlo said, I believe he means the in-hull navigation lights port and starboard, located in the anchor-rode space, which as he says 'communicates' with the vee berth. It sounds to me like he glassed them over from inside and installed a different set of lights somewhere else. This sounds like a pretty sensible ocean-going modifcation. JC 2
From the context of what Mr van Mierlo said, I believe he means the in-hull navigation lights port and starboard, located in the anchor-rode space, which as he says 'communicates' with the vee berth. It sounds to me like he glassed them over from inside and installed a different set of lights somewhere else. This sounds like a pretty sensible ocean-going modifcation. JC 2
Adding glass
I think Mr van Mierlo is absolutely right in wanting to add glass inside the hull. While it is true this vintage of boat, and especially of Hunter boats, tends to be built like a brick outhouse, you will still find oilcanning and undesirable degrees of flex just about anywhere you look. It can't hurt to prudently add a layer or two of Fabmat here and there, even inside lockers and under berths. Of course there is absolutely NO reason to consider laying it up from the outside-- it's WAY more work than any sane person wants to do and doing it inside does the same thing. During the design phase of the early Hunters there was a lot of talk at the drawing-board about 'egg-crating'-- the glassing of absolutely every bulkhead to the hull wherever it was. The issue of what constituted 'too much' stiffness came up and was answered with: there is no such thing. On a small fibreglass boat you simply cannot get EVERYTHING 'too' stiffened-up. In the end the whole boat will just roll or yaw off to leeward and there you are. From an idea on the (stillborn) day-racer version of the original Hunter 25, we developed an essentially all-egg-crated interior for the Raider 33. There was one long 'shelf' glassed inside at the waterline which was all the bunk tops and on which the galley 'box' (similar in concept to a MacGregor one, actually!) and other lockers sat. The vertical face of this, forming the bunk fronts, etc., was almost completely unbroken (I think the only exception was at the head). Every athwartwhips bulkhead above and below this, no matter how insignificant to its interior use, was also glassed to the hull. Even cockpit-locker bulkheads were and vee-berth shelves were-- as these are crucial flex areas. All deck hardware, especially chainplates and stanchions, benefits from this. The resulting Raider 33 was/is one of the stiffest boats available anywhere, the kind of thing you can sail through a maelstrom like a train on rails. For any production boat going to sea I recommend this kind of stiffening. The added weight is ultimately very inconsequential compared to the strength available from it. Two more side points: 1. Yes, I totally believe Mr van Mierlo got his H-27 to 8-1/2 kts. North Sea weather is like that. 2. Is it a deep-keel version? If not, consider upgrading to the 4-ft keel. Remember the H-27 is one of my favourite boats, but personally I would not take a shoal-draught one outside Cape May. JC 2
I think Mr van Mierlo is absolutely right in wanting to add glass inside the hull. While it is true this vintage of boat, and especially of Hunter boats, tends to be built like a brick outhouse, you will still find oilcanning and undesirable degrees of flex just about anywhere you look. It can't hurt to prudently add a layer or two of Fabmat here and there, even inside lockers and under berths. Of course there is absolutely NO reason to consider laying it up from the outside-- it's WAY more work than any sane person wants to do and doing it inside does the same thing. During the design phase of the early Hunters there was a lot of talk at the drawing-board about 'egg-crating'-- the glassing of absolutely every bulkhead to the hull wherever it was. The issue of what constituted 'too much' stiffness came up and was answered with: there is no such thing. On a small fibreglass boat you simply cannot get EVERYTHING 'too' stiffened-up. In the end the whole boat will just roll or yaw off to leeward and there you are. From an idea on the (stillborn) day-racer version of the original Hunter 25, we developed an essentially all-egg-crated interior for the Raider 33. There was one long 'shelf' glassed inside at the waterline which was all the bunk tops and on which the galley 'box' (similar in concept to a MacGregor one, actually!) and other lockers sat. The vertical face of this, forming the bunk fronts, etc., was almost completely unbroken (I think the only exception was at the head). Every athwartwhips bulkhead above and below this, no matter how insignificant to its interior use, was also glassed to the hull. Even cockpit-locker bulkheads were and vee-berth shelves were-- as these are crucial flex areas. All deck hardware, especially chainplates and stanchions, benefits from this. The resulting Raider 33 was/is one of the stiffest boats available anywhere, the kind of thing you can sail through a maelstrom like a train on rails. For any production boat going to sea I recommend this kind of stiffening. The added weight is ultimately very inconsequential compared to the strength available from it. Two more side points: 1. Yes, I totally believe Mr van Mierlo got his H-27 to 8-1/2 kts. North Sea weather is like that. 2. Is it a deep-keel version? If not, consider upgrading to the 4-ft keel. Remember the H-27 is one of my favourite boats, but personally I would not take a shoal-draught one outside Cape May. JC 2
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