At what limit do you put cost?

[Brian D]

I want to do a few things on my boat, but the cost of those things might be too high. What I mean here is, I purchased my boat for less than 10K. I think it was worth it so there is no issue with that. I have priced biminis and roller furling for my boat. Both cost into the 1K. So that means I would spend 20% of the boat value to add these upgrades. If I had a $50k or $60k boat, those costs would not be an issue.Am I out in left field with my thinking? I'm looking purely at the economics of this, not what will it bring to me as a sailer. Would you put a dollar limit on items if that dollar limit reached a certain percentage of the cost of the boat?Your thoughts?

 

[Dave from Mi.]

LImits?

Hi Brian;I have had older less expensive, (Less than $3500 for O'Day 23) to relativly new (1996 C30) and have always considered the benefit and comfort I would receive from the upgrade, not what it would do for the boat value. Because both the wife and I have had bouts with skin cancer, a bimini and dodger is a must, even if it DETRACTED from the value. Other things like roller furling and autopilots require the same consideration. Will I get the benefit of the money spent. As you get older, creature comforts become more and more valuable;-)))))fair windsDave

 

[Shippy]

Future Plans

IMHO, the question I always ask myself when I look at expensive toys or add-ons is, what are my plan for this boat. Is this a starter boat that I plan to learn on and move up in a year or two; is this my 5 year boat or is this my long term boat. If it's a starter boat, to me the upgrades don't justify the cost since I realize my chances of recovering these costs when I resell are little. If they are upgrades that can be moved to the next boat, than that is different because again that is more long term. If teh upgrades are f0r safety reason, than I have to factor that in too. On my 29.5, I knew that was a starter boat for me and I had a timeline of 3 years for that boat. I could learn alot, do upgrades as needed but didn't want to put more expensive upgrades in such as AC, windlasss, refrig/freezer, etc because I couldn't justify the boat bucks (1 boat buck = $1,000 US). I did some significant upgardes because the peice broke or wore out (new main sail, new flaking system, new batteries and charges) and other upgrades for safety, new larger Fortress Anchor and rod, new throwable PDF, etc. In summary, ask yourself what are your plans for this boat and timeline.

 

[Stu Jackson]

The point could be made that if you even

have to ask you are missing the point.Safety issues come first, and some comfort items can also be safety related (roller furling is an example). Maintenance is next. What else, based on the boat you have now, could you possibly ever NEED or want? And extend that thought...need or want that wouldn't require getting another boat?Most of the rest seems to be to me based on the boat size. You bought one of a certain size, and unless you're moving up soon, like within two years and you KNOW it, anything you add you will benefit from using. Could be you're in an in-between size or type of boat that may prompt this question.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Depends....

Sometimes its difficult to separate the economics from the value you receive from the benefits of these items. In your particular case, i dont think that you would lose too much of your investment in a bimini or a roller furler if you were to sell the boat in a year or so. You would however lose money on an auto-pilot, radar expensive depth sounder, refrigeration system etc. The key value in a boat other than the age and condition is in the consideration of what is normal for a boat of that size. If a water maker is not normally found in a boat of your size, then you will surely take a big loss. If a bimini and roller furler is normally found on a boat of your size, then it will be expected by the prospective new owner and thus will have an influence in the value. Sometimes folks think they got a great buy on a stripped down boat, when in fact, that is all it was worth stripped down. On my Catalina 30, which we purchased pretty stripped, i was aware of the costs of upgrades and the resale value with the upgrades. In my case, it was worth the upgrades. Find the boat value 'as is' and then the value with the 'extras' and from there you wil be able to make an intelligent decision (based on values/costs) and an emotion decision based on comfort and convience.Never an easy decision.  Tony B

 

[PaulK]

Wrong business

Unless you're a commercial fisher, money spent on boats has to be entirely discretionary. "Improving" any boat is soley up to the current owner. Anything you do has to be worth it to YOU. Somebody else might put on a roller-furler main at great cost. Such a feature would reduce a boat's value in my book. If you want a helipad, put it on, but don't expect anyone else to pay for it. Biminis cost $1000 for small boats or big boats. That's what they cost. It's not like a liferaft that you might keep if you sold the boat; it's customized for the boat it's on. Economics come into the picture only as Shippy points out: Are you going to get $1000's worth of enjoyment from that bimini in the time you will be using the boat? Is it worth it to YOU? If there are other things that would be worth more to you, (like perhaps putting the money towards another boat?) do that. Never expect owning a boat to make sense economically. It doesn't.

 

[Ross]

Brian, Measuring the cost of an accessory

against the cost of the boat isn't entirely valid. If you were given a car but after one year it needed new tires and a battery and some paint but the car was otherwise very good. You could have a car with new tires a new battery and fresh paint for much less than the price of an equivalant different car. The same thing applies to your boat. It is a nice boat as is for 10,000 will it still be a nice boat for 12,000 with the added features?

 

[Brian D]

All good points...

And I had not considered the point of "where am I going with this boat". I do plan to upgrade and I am waiting for the right boat in the right location. So the present boat could be a long term boat, but it will last me at least until next summer. I am sure of that.Of the two items mentioned, the bimini has a higher priority than roller furling. I have a jib but I cannot reef it. If I get in a good blow, I'll just take it down and go main alone. But staying out of the sun is important. I've been burned a few times already.Appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes I just don't think at the same level as you guys. This comes with owning a boat longer than I and having more experience.

 

[newsailor06]

Case by Case Basis

The way I evaluate the cost and justification equation is similar. I have a 1985 C25 and am planning to keep it for about 2-3 years. It is our first boat and one we are using to improve our skills that we learned in class. If the project is one of general maintenance, it's cost is not a big factor. However, if it is what as perceived as an improvement, its cost is considered and a priority assigned. For example, we bought our boat with a hanked on jib, 135 and 155 genoa's. I wanted to add a furler with a 150 so that I didn't have to go forward to untie the jib from the deck. I was lucky to find a used Harken furler with sail locally for $400.00 from a Capri 25. I had the sail cut down locally for $145.00 so total was $545.00 which, to me, was a good value.While the mast was down, I replaced the masthead sheaves, new steaming light, new anchor light, and replaced the broken windex. On these items, I did not put them off and the cost was only minimal consideration. I thought it was an appropriate time and the value it added to the boat did not come into play.

 

[John Nantz]

Pssssst,... Brian, what is your Mistress worth?

You found this really nice girl and now you're having second thoughts? She's not *just* a boat, she's your pride and joy. We're talking about your secret (well, maybe not so secret) love here! If you want her to take care of you, you have to take care of her and treat her right. Take the bimini, for example. Get this and she'll be able to give you a better time, and...., you're get less sun exposure and a lesser chance of melanoma. Sounds like a win-win to me. So what's the next issue?Oh yes, the roller furler. This is something that's for your benefit. Not just a labor-saving device but a SAFETY feature. How would you like to be forward on the bow working on the jib when all of a sudden some wave or wake hits you knocking you off balance or overboard. Go for it.So, what was the question????

 

[Benny]

If improvements pertain to safety

there is no issue. A bimini in the Florida sun is a necessity, well worth the investment in sailing comfort and enjoyment. Remember you can equip an older boat with older used parts that way you keep your sailing expenses lower. When buying a boat, new or old, make sure you make a list of the things that you must have and look for one that has them in the price range that you are willing to pay. It will be a lot more expensive to add them afterwards. I have passed up on more than a few good inexpensive boats because it would cost a small fortune to upgrade and install my list of must have's.

 

[Scott]

Brian, I know exactly how you feel ...

Our 27' Starwind isn't the boat for our future, but we really don't know at this point how long we will have it. In the meantime, the maintenance issues and upgrade ideas keep coming.The line between "must replace" and "would like to have" gets very blurry at times. We've put off the roller furler and the autopilot for now, until we relocate to a sailing area where they become more useful. We've put money into upholstery, hatches, standing rigging and hardware, the marine head and other maintenance issues that should enhance the value of the boat. We bought new sails because sailing at less than peak performance is un-satisfactory to me (although we did limit the sails to dacron cruising sails). I'm still pondering the addition of all the spinnaker components.The longer we own the boat, the more upgrades it will surely get. By the time we are ready to sell, it may be so upgraded that it would be a shame to get rid of her ... we do have kids that might like to keep her!

 

[NYSail]

my experience

The first boat was a 1977 Cal 34 III....a great boat, however a bit small for the wife and I and what we like to do. I did upgrades that were necessary for the boat, however when it came to canvas and such, that is when I stopped.My new boat a 1986 P36-2 is my dream boat and I am POURING money into her with great happiness as I plan on sailing her for many many many years.Greg

 

[Ferg]

Backing Stu

IMHO, have wish lists for gear you want;Seaworthiness & safety.Personal comfortCool or pretty looking.I have a set amount I spend each year on maintenance and upkeep, and make the seaworthy & safety part priority ONE.In your case, I’d most likely get the furler, that could fall under safety because it’d eliminate the need of crew having to scurry up to the bow when things get rough.The bimini top would fall under personal comfort, I’d buy the furler and a wide brim hat for this year and get the top next year.Ferg

 

[Waffle]

The sky is the limit

you, my man, should get the 70 HP outboat and drive that power sailor the way it was designed to run!

 

[Waffle]

RE: Here is a bimini top for $329.

looks like it too!You get what you pay for...

 

[Brian D]

Waffle...

You have a 70hp on you boat? Then I'll wail until you get one and tell me how it works.

 

[higgs]

money pit

Don't ever plan on getting your money out of any improvements you make to your boat. Improvements may make it easier to sell the boat, but you will not get your money out of. With the exception of sails, when I have purchased a boat the real issue was the condition of the hull, deck, engine, and rigging.

 

[Alex]

Sky's the limit

The famous saying: As far as mistress go, boat and women (no offence to the female blogger here) cost about the same but you can dispose boats a lot easier.You have fun so don't gripe.

 

[Donald6441]

My 1st sailboat was bought for $300

a bayliner buccaneer 24 sailboat. It was a great boat to learn on, and i had a great time on it. Just before Wilma came through i put a $600 mini-GPS/chart plotter, a $600 snap furl with a $200 used but next to new sail, and a $125 rope clutch on her, and misc blocks to lead the lines to the cockpit. Then the hurricane ate her.... lucky i salvaged my plotter, but everything else was a loss. I got to use my snap furl 2 times.... Was it worth it? I don't know, i know it would have given me mucho enjoyment if Wilma didnt take her from me, and that's all i cared about, not the fact the boats upgrades were worth more than the boat... My current boat is a Morgan 35. I got her for a song from a condemned marina. Ive spent about 10k on her upgrades, & reconditioning. Luckily this one had roller furling on the head and main sails already, so i didn't have to have that cost, this was a paint job, deck re-core, bottom job, fairing of the hull after lots of scrapes and nicks, new electrical system, new stove & microwave, wind-lass, way too much in work-yard fees, and an e-drive system with backup generator to replace the Perkins noise-box. After looking at the new Catalina-Morgan 440, im prob going to be upgrading in about 3 or 4 years to one, so ill be selling my current boat. With what Ive done to my boat and all the sweat equity ive put into it, my dealer thinks i should get 30k for it, so Ill be ahead on this one. BTW, he only would have expected to get $25k for it without the work, so thats 50% loss on the work/upgrades. I just have to protect it from the storms... They say a boat is a hole in the water for your to throw your money into. The question is, will you get the x$ amount of enjoyment out of your upgrades for whatever long your going to keep it? Dont ever expect to get out of it what you put into it, thats for dang sure...