Asymmetrical Spinnaker Pole

Les · Mar 8, 2013

You didn't say what year your 34 was but I'll assume it has the B&R rig. I've had both a Hunter 35.5 and a 380 in which I used a Forespar line controlled whisker pole with asymmetrical chutes. It's workable, however IF you do have a B&R rig going directly down wind is not advised.

First your main cannot be rung out as far as with standard rigs. And asymmetrical are not as efficient when used directly down wind even if you use a whisker pole. I have done a small bit of research with the 35.5 and found we moved faster slightly off the wind (about 155 to 160 degrees) then when sails were deployed directly down wind, i.e., we could make the leeward mark in racing faster off the wind.

Here is another "trick" that we learned when using a B&R rig. If we needed to go downwind a short distance (for defensive position in racing) we would slightly furl in the main, making it smaller but allowing more wind to reach the chute.

When cruising our H380 we just never went down wind. For the two of us it was more fun to fly the chute and keep it full by going on a broad reach.

I hope this helps.

Nodak7 · Mar 8, 2013

OfflineTN said:
I have a asymmetrical spinnaker for my Hunter 340 that I love but when heading directly downwind its a fight to run wing & wing with it. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on using a whisker pole with a asymmetrical spinnaker. I was looking at this pole from Forespar... http://www.forespar.com/products/tri-reacher-whisker-pole.shtml

Thanks!!!

Chris Edwards

Offline, we have found that you can go directly downwind flying the Asym with the B&R Rig if you furl in the main nearly all the way or all the way. However we do prefer to go a bit off since it makes it easier to keep it full. BTW we fly it with and without the main deployed depending on the wind conditions and direction.

I know that as soon as I say that I will get a few responses saying that you should not or cannot fly one without having the Main deployed so I will share a Hunter Picture that I found. It looks as if he is going pretty much downwind.

Joe · Mar 8, 2013

Before you spend money on a whisker pole, have you rigged a preventer on the boom? Fixing the main out so it won't accidently jibe, then sailing to keep the spinnaker filled, might solve the problem.

You could also try twin headsails...... drop the main, pole out the genny and fly the spin.. this method is suitable for long downwind runs, but difficult if you have to turn.

The preventer rig would only require unclipping the boom to swing over....

But, even better, you can rig a PAIR of preventers, one fore each side, that stay permanently attached to the boom, are run forward of the mast, then back to the cockpit for convenient control....

Now, if you go the whisker pole route... take care to properly rig the spar with a topping lift and foreguy... so it won't destroy the shape of the chute.

Les · Mar 8, 2013

To answer your latest question, "what good would this pole do for me?", I have a biased answer. I raced for a number of years and handling a regular chute became important. When the asymmetrical chutes came out we had to adjust. I note around Puget Sound the cruising folk just attached their asymmetricals at the tack and just use the sheet as a control line. If you look at the example in the picture that you gave us, that chute needs to have the tack released a bit to even out the sail. Perhaps if they did that they wouldn't need the pole because it would leave the chute fly out a bit and catch more wind.

As I understand, the design of the asymmetrical chutes were a continuation of light air 150 genoas and most were designed for use without the need of a pole. I just bought a asymmetrical chute last year for my Hunter 27 and it was designed so that I don't need to go forward whatsoever. The tack line comes back to the cockpit as well as the sheet and lazy guy. I use a bag or turtle but no sock to store the sail.

Once I haul the chute up the mast behind the main, I then adjust course and pull on the sheet. The sheets stay on the sail (even when stowed). Once I have the chute flying, I then adjust the tack so that the tack of the sail is slightly lower then the clew. In utopia, I would let out on the sheet until there was a curl in the luff then I would yank back on the sheet until it quit curling, then start the process all over again by slowly letting the sheet out until the proverbial curl.

But I have become a sloppy or lazy sailor by myself. I just like to fly the chute and just tack it down. In what I've just told you, no pole is required. When I bought this new chute the sailmaker and I agreed no pole would be needed.

You raise an interesting question about sailing on a river--up wind or down wind, eh? I have a number of friends who sail on the Columbia River....I'll have to ask them what they do. Doesn't the river bend and curl? Does the wind follow the river? Interesting quandary.

I wish you well.

[to those in the Pacific Northwest, I got my new asymmetrical chute last year from Jim Kitchen in Lynnwood who is a Doyle sailmaker. He made this sail for me to be very easy to use--and it is. I just turned eighty and I still like to fly a spinnaker by myself.]

JohnS · Mar 8, 2013

Nodak, that's a pretty wild looking spinnaker in your first picture. Never seen that before. I wonder what the theory is behind that design.

Nodak7 · Mar 8, 2013

OfflineTN said:
Thanks for the information. I don't have a furling mast but I can bring the sail in so its not catching air to allow the air to fill the spinnaker. But Seriously, what good does a pole do for a asymmetrical spinnaker?

Thanks,

Chris

Offline, there has only been one time when we used a "pole" and that was one the wind was so light it would barely keep the sail inflated. We do not have a pole so I used an extended boat hook to hold the sail out. I think I have a video of it. So no I don't think you do need a dedicated pole. IMHO

Jackdaw · Mar 9, 2013

Nodak7 said:
I know that as soon as I say that I will get a few responses saying that you should not or cannot fly one without having the Main deployed so I will share a Hunter Picture that I found. It looks as if he is going pretty much downwind.

If those two boats are going anywhere CLOSE to DDW that is terrible spinnaker trim. WAY overtrimmed. The tack line should be let out about 3 -4 feet, allowing the luff to curl to windward as the sheet is eased. Easily 1/3 of the spin should be on the windward side of the boat in this situation.

You can't fly it like a big genoa!

tommays · Mar 9, 2013

The boats all look like there reaching

The purpose of any pole is to help project the most area

A few of the more modern spirit boats have articulating poles to give them more options

Nodak7 · Mar 9, 2013

Jackdaw said:
If those two boats are going anywhere CLOSE to DDW that is terrible spinnaker trim. WAY overtrimmed. The tack line should be let out about 3 -4 feet, allowing the luff to curl to windward as the sheet is eased. Easily 1/3 of the spin should be on the windward side of the boat in this situation.

You can't fly it like a big genoa!

Jackdaw, relax, we were not even close to ddw in this picture. It was just a picture of the two of us flying the asym...

Here is a picture of us and our "spinnaker pole". I believe this was a bit more downwind then the other. You can see there is a little heel on so it is not ddw.

Here is a video of us flying it and it was not completely ddw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLURSOjUiQo&feature=youtu.be

Jackdaw · Mar 9, 2013

Nodak7 said:
Jackdaw, relax, we were not even close to ddw in this picture. It was just a picture of the two of us flying the asym...

Here is a picture of us and our "spinnaker pole". I believe this was a bit more downwind then the other. You can see there is a little heel on so it is not ddw.

Here is a video of us flying it and it was not completely ddw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLURSOjUiQo&feature=youtu.be

. All good!

My only question is this... Why do you need a pole to get the asym to fill fully? It seems over trimmed. The sail should fill by itself and fly directly in front of the apparent wind, particularly without a mainsail to blanket it.

In general I agree, for lazy days asym sailing when sailing deep, taking down the main is a good idea!

Nodak7 · Mar 9, 2013

Jackdaw said:
. All good!

My only question is this... Why do you need a pole to get the asym to fill fully? It seems over trimmed. The sail should fill by itself and fly directly in front of the apparent wind, particularly without a mainsail to blanket it.

In general I agree, for lazy days asym sailing when sailing deep, taking down the main is a good idea!

Jackdaw you do make a good point. In this case I wanted the clew of the sail out further do I could go further downwind. The wind was light enough that if I let the sheet out the sail would not remain filled.

BTW my Asym trimming is atrocious and I admit it. We really have not flown it enough to get the full benefits from it. It is just plain fun to fly though and pretty!

rpwillia · Mar 9, 2013

Istec Parasail

JohnS said:
Nodak, that's a pretty wild looking spinnaker in your first picture. Never seen that before. I wonder what the theory is behind that design.

John, We discussed that sail here about 2 years ago. It is an Istec Parasail (http://www.istec.ag/us/products/parasail.html). I think it is pretty cool, but the smaller one that would fit my boat was $6500

and the better sized one (dealer said both would work) was $7500

.

One of the magazines did an analysis of it (Sail Magazine?) and said it was nothing special, but I still want one.

Just can't get over the price.

Asymmetrical Spinnaker Pole

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