Asymetrical Spinnaker on Fractional Rig

Relentless · Feb 28, 2012

Sounds to me like you are trying to sail too deep, try a little hotter angle,or pole out the kite

Ken13559 · Feb 28, 2012

If you find the Mains blocking the Asymm, trying bringing in the Mains or to opposite side to create a funnel to direct wind onto the Asymm. I don't think the problem is with fractional rig. A bow sprit would certainly help but you don't have one. I do fly goose-wing (Asymm & Mains) but not often as condition are often not right. You'll need a preventer and calm sea for it.

Bill Roosa · Feb 28, 2012

Asymms are not DDW sails, as you have found. You typically don't want to sail DDW anyway as that is pretty slow. You get there much faster if you sail at a greater angle to DDW. I've got a fractional rig and my asymm works just fine. I can get 1 knot boat speed in 1 knot apparent going with the wind at around 135 degrees relative.
Also the tension on the luft is important to get the shape right for the wind strength. There are lots of info on the net on how to trim them.
What weight is your asymm? Mine is 0.5 oz

Kermit · Feb 28, 2012

I've been flying mine for about a year now, but not very often. My strongest advice is to read everything you can about your sail and absorb everything you read here. Sailing (for me anyway) is challenging to get exactly right even when it's easy. Spinnakers are loads of fun but not particularly intuitive. And certainly not relaxing. But dang they're fun.

Good luck with your sail and have fun!

Jackdaw · Feb 28, 2012

Fractional boats (with a smaller J-LOA ratios) are a bit harder to go deeper (140-150 AWA) with an asym but its not impossible. I'm guessing you do not have an adjustable tackline. The KEY to sailing deep with an asym on any boat is projection. Modern asyms are designed to 'rotate' to windward when sailing deep. This gets the luff into clear air. Do do this two things need to happen. First is that the tack has to be high enough to allow the luff to have decent curvature. Deeper you go, the higher the tack. Second is to sail the boat flat. In lighter airs you will want weight on the windward rail to tip the rig to windward. That will help rotate the sail. Work hard to keep the sail flying. If it collapses you will have to heat up to refill it.

Do this.. when going deeper you should be able to stand on the centerline of the boat, look forward, and see the asyms luff extended 4-5 to windward of the mast. Its kind of cool. If you don't, loosen the tackline. Remember that will be under a load.

Charisma · Feb 28, 2012

I agree with "glory days", you may just be trying to sail to deep.

Nodak7 · Feb 28, 2012

syoun10 said:
I'm very disappointed with the performance of the A-sym spinnaker I bought for my 2007 Hunter 33.

I think the problem is that, with the fractional rig, the mast is so far forward that the mail always seems to shadow the A-sym and I just can't find the sweet spot or downwind angle where both sails are consistently full.

I'm thinking of trying to fly the A-sym with the mail furled. But I'm concerned that (again because of the fractional rig) the A-sym is relatively small (attaches to the mast where the jib does - not the top of the mast) so performance will be poor.

steve

Steve,

Just wondering about your comment regarding where the A-Sym is attached to your mast. If I recall correctly on our H33 there was a dedicated A-Sym Halyard that was above where the halyard for the Jib exited the mast. I had a 2009 H33 and I believe the 2007 is the same. Are you using the Jib halyard for the A-Sym?

We flew our A-Sym on the H33 and we were quite happy with the performance. It definitely was an improvement. We flew it with and without the main depending on the relative angle. We did rig up a pole a couple of times when the wind was very light. I just do not recall being dissatisfied with the performance compared to just using the Jib. Sorry to hear that you are.

Nodak7

Jake N Eggs · Feb 28, 2012

Steve,

I have a North Sail Asym. It is wider to compensate for the fractional rig. I think it was called a G-2. In light air downwind the main does interfere with the asym. I usually fly it alone and I am happy with the performance. You can see it in my avitar.

Nodak7 · Feb 28, 2012

Jake N Eggs said:
Steve,

I have a North Sail Asym. It is wider to compensate for the fractional rig. I think it was called a G-2. In light air downwind the main does interfere with the asym. I usually fly it alone and I am happy with the performance. You can see it in my avitar.

Jake,

I had the very same sail and flew it both alone and with the main. This brings up another subject and I know this is going to start a big ugly response but I was told, by my dealer, that it was not recommended to fly the Jib or an Asym on a B&R rig without having the main deployed. Just curious but have you, or anyone else, heard of this before? I see no reason why not other than with the main out there is some aft support for the mast thru the leech to the travel and the arch. Just in case I compensated for this by making sure the topping lift was tight and connected to the boom with a tight traveler line. Picture attached.

Nodak7

Jackdaw · Feb 28, 2012

Nodaks picture made we want to point out what I was talking about regarding luff projection. Here we are in 8 knots true breeze with an apparent wind angle of about 150. The shot is dead astern, and the luff is curved way into the clear air, lets us go very deep. The tack is about 5 feet off the deck. We are both on the windward rail to tilt the rig to windward as much as possible. Let your tack up and 99% of asyms will do this, even with the main up.

Jackdaw · Feb 28, 2012

Same sail, but upwind at about 50 AWA. Tack as low as it can go. We are moving faster than the true wind. Asymmetrics can be very versatile sails!

DannyS · Feb 28, 2012

Great pics JD! A picture's worth a thousand words.

Jackdaw · Feb 29, 2012

DannyS said:
Great pics JD! A picture's worth a thousand words.

Thanks danny. We've found that hardest part of rigging this was finding a way to have an adjustable tackline that did not damage the bow pulpit and fittings. At some lengths, jibes and changes or pressure would put huge pressure on the rails or rip off nav lights! In the end we had a small prod made to keep the tack clear. It does not add any real projection (a la j/boats), but at least keeps the boat from tearing itself apart! ;^)

It may be part of the reason why a lot of setups just use a fixed length pendant.

Jake N Eggs · Feb 29, 2012

Nodak7 said:
Jake,

I had the very same sail and flew it both alone and with the main. This brings up another subject and I know this is going to start a big ugly response but I was told, by my dealer, that it was not recommended to fly the Jib or an Asym on a B&R rig without having the main deployed. Just curious but have you, or anyone else, heard of this before? I see no reason why not other than with the main out there is some aft support for the mast thru the leech to the travel and the arch. Just in case I compensated for this by making sure the topping lift was tight and connected to the boom with a tight traveler line. Picture attached.

Nodak7

I am not aware of any restriction on using the jib or asym. without the main. When the main is in the boom is supported by the topping lift rather than the rigid vang. That is a personal thing so that the boom is not bent down by tightening the main sheet. The jib and spinnaker halyards are at the connection point for the shrouds so I can't imagine that it would be an issue. It will be interesting to hear what others have to say.

Jake N Eggs · Feb 29, 2012

Jackdaw,

Nice pictures. There is some sort of issue with our configuration that interferes with the air flow to the asym. with the main out. I haven't totally figured it out yet but I think it has to do with the 3/4 fractional and the very short space between the tack and the mast in conjunction with the large main. I run the tack to the helm so we adjust it easily. Having said this, we don't really fly it that often and our experience level is not that great. We will keep working with it.

Jackdaw · Feb 29, 2012

Jake,

I get that. I could see how the B&R (which really limits how for out your main can go) and the 3/4 fractional fortriangle would be a devil. Sounds like you are experimenting with what works best, which is always a good idea. One thing to try in lighter airs (if your boat has a wide traveler) is to pull the boom in, and pull the boom to windward with the traveler all the way up upwind, so the main in effect is reverse weathervaned and presents no area to the wind. The asym will be happier. Kind of like taking the main down, but easier, and if the B&R needs a main rigged to safely fly the asym (I've never heard of that) you get the too.

Ken13559 · Mar 1, 2012

When I fly my Asymm, I normally bring my tackline back to the clutch for Mains #2 reef line (#2 reef line is hardly ever use). Thus I can raise or lower the tack from cockpit. With winch if need be.

Jackdaw · Mar 1, 2012

Ken13559 said:
When I fly my Asymm, I normally bring my tackline back to the clutch for Mains #2 reef line (#2 reef line is hardly ever use). Thus I can raise or lower the tack from cockpit. With winch if need be.

Good plan... when cruising we re-rig our foreguy (pole down) symmetrical spin control line as our tack line. The line is a bit overspec'ed for a guy, but it is nice because it comes back via a dedicated clutch and to the winch in the cockpit. As you note this can be under quite a load.

Asymetrical Spinnaker on Fractional Rig

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.