Assistance Needed W/ Bilge Pump (Again)

[gpd955]

After months of dealing with my bilge pump, I am seeking some advice.PO had a Rule 1200 with about 3 ft of 1 1/8" bilge hose scaled down to 3/4" heavy duty hose that led to the through hull which is port side just below the transom. I could not get the pump to work and since it did pump water when I disconnected the hose, figured the hose was clogged somewhere along the line. I removed the entire hose and replaced it using the same configuration. There was no clog so I used my previous firefighting experience and though maybe with the friction loss in the 1 1/8" hose there was not enough pressure to push the water through the smaller diameter hose. So I shortened the larger hose to about 6". Still no water coming out of the through hull.Then the pump stopped working, so I replaced it with a RuleMate 1500. Filled the bilge.....still no water coming out. I disconected the existing hose set up and put about 15 ft of 1 1/8" hose and brouhgt it up to the cockpit. The water came up to about where the cockpit seats are but there was not enough pressure to get the water high enough to go overboard. As I lowered the hose back into the boat, I found that at about sink level, a small amount of water would come out. When the hose was back at the level of the bilge, great flow!So the problem obviously is the pump not having the strength to pump uphill. Are there better pumps out there??Are there any other ways to get this to work??Can someone pleeeease give me some suggestions on how to get the pump to do its job??!!??!!Sorry about the long message!!Jack ManningS/V Victim of FateAtlantic City, NJ

 

[Chris Burti]

Hose Diameter Issue

I am not an expert in this area, but it sure seems like the weight of the water in 15' of 1-1/8" hose is a lot for a small pump like that to try to over come...even without 3'-4' of lift.See if you can scrounge up or borrow 15' of 3/4" hose and try that out.

 

[Franklin]

Rule 1500

is what my boat came with and worked fine for I guess 10 years. It runs a 1 1/8" hose about 3-4 feet up and another 5' sideways. I would suggest to replace that thru hull with a larger size and run straight 1 1/8" hose the whole way.You might also want to check the power supply to the pump. Maybe the pump is working fine but its not getting enough juice because the wires are too small or the connections are corroded or not connected securely.Actually, my real suggestion is to go with a rule 8000 and run a 3" hose because you can never have too much pump but many would call that overkill. For about $400 you can have a pump that can handle just about any leak for a while. That's cheap insurance.

 

[gpd955]

Currently

that is what I have on it now. The only thing is that the pump requires 1 1/8" hose, which I have for about 6" and then I have an adapter that brings it down to 3/4". Still nothing!

 

[mmerriman]

i saw this on the ITT site

My pump is only putting out a small fraction of the water volume I expected. What is wrong?  Check to make sure that the positive and negative leads are not reversed. Reversed polarity will result in the centrifugal impeller running backwards and the pump producing only about 20% of its rated flow.

 

[mmerriman]

product flow chart

check out the atch link

 

[Fred Ficarra]

I agree with the guys who said to check your wires

Your previous pumps should have done the job. Both of them. Also look for a nick in the wire insulation. That will kill the wire after a few years if it's not tinned. The trouble with modern boats is that the wire can't be inspected in most cases. But you can use an ohm meter with an 'amps' draw feature to measure the power that the pump uses. The draw should be at or near the pumps power consumption rating. If not, check the connectors like Franklin said. If those are good then try a new wire. That should solve the pump problem but not the 'replacement' problem.

 

[rsn48]

Air in the hose

I had a chap install my bilge pumps. All have to pump water up hill. One of the pumps appeared not to be working, but on inspection worked. The problem was the hose configuration which was allowing air in the hose, which gave the system the problem of not working.

 

[Franklin]

re: Air in the hose

only if the hose you are talking about is having the water sucked through and not pushed which most electronic bidge pumps don't work like that but manuals do.If the water is being pushed through the hose, it doesn't matter if the hose has a leak or not, the water is going to go through if there is enough pressure.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Fluid dynamics 101

All pumps are rated in head. Head is the vertical distance between two points on the circuit in question. In this case the pump and the thru-hull. The head a pump can deliver is the height that it can pump water and just get a dribble out the end of the hose. Like gpd955 discovered. When he was in the cockpit and the water just came up to the end of the hose he was working the pump at its' maximum head. It only matters what the vertical distance is between the two points to determine if water will flow. As you reduce the head the flow of water becomes greater. The only exception is a situation like a vented loop where the water must be pushed up and over the loop. In that case the head would be the top of the loop and the pump. Once the water makes it over the loop the head is back to the pump and the thru-hull. The size of the hose and its' length do not determine if water comes out they only determine how much water comes out. As you would expect the longer and smaller the hose the less water will be flowing. But as long as the head of the system is less that the max head the pump can deliver water will flow.My bet is on a loop in the system that is higher than the max pump head or reversed wires. Most of these pumps have heads to like 10'. That is a really deep bilge that would have that much head.Check the wires.

 

[Ross]

Bill, to add to you post, elbows, bends and

long runs of hose also add to the total head. There is some friction in a straight piece of hose and bends change direction of the flow and add friction. Often the manufacturer will provide a table that shows delivery at 0, 5, 10, 15 feet.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Yep, just another way of saying the hose is longer

nm

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

10 foot head

At a 10 foot head the Rule 1200 should be pushing about 375 GPH.Unless the head from the bilge to sink level is greater than 10-12 feet (doubtful) my bet is reverse polarity or other wiring problem.If reverse polarity causes an 80% drop in flow, near zero flow with a 3-4 foot head to the sink would be about right.ITT specifically warns against reducing hose diameter or adding check valves.

 

[gpd955]

There was

only one way to wire it. The battery wire went to the solid brown (power), the black wire went to ground (a keel bolt was used previously, so I just changed the wires, and the brown/white wire was secured (it was only to be used for a 3 way switch, which I was not using). The pump is wired directly to the battery with a 2 position switch at the DC electrical panel in the event that you want to shut it down for maintenance. (I did check and the pump does operate when the battery switches are turned off!)Anyone see a problem with this wiring configuration??I apperciate everyone's help!

 

[r.w.landau]

Did you check the strainer

Reaching for straws....Have you snapped off the strainer and checked to make sure it is not plugged?Is your bilge clean and free of debris like a plastic bag that may cover the strainer?Is the battery fully charged?r.w.landau

 

[gpd955]

Yes

Strainer was clear, water flows from the pump great...just doesn't make it up to the through hull. Batteries are fully charged and are on a charger/conditioner when docked.

 

[r.w.landau]

Have you tried their 800 number?

Have you talkd to Rule about the problem?r.w.landau

 

[Franklin]

gpd955

The ground wire is your problem. Keel bolt is not a good ground. Run that wire to a ground bus (you should have one near your batteries or behind your breaker panel.

 

[gpd955]

R.W.

Getting the 800 number would require that I open the instruction manual which is in direct violation of Section IV, Article 7 of "The Man Code"! Reminds me of the time that I was replacing the compass and adding GPS and couldn't get power to the darn things. After about 3 hours and deciding to re-wire the entire boat my friend said...Did you check the fuse? So much for starting with the simple way!!FRANKLIN- I will rewire the ground wire and I think between that and putting on the recommended size hose the entire length, it should work! We'll see this weekend!

 

[r.w.landau]

Good call Franklin!

Jack, I read your post 13 like you rewired it directly to the battery. If you are grounding to the keel bolt, that is the problem.And your instructions will not need to be opened!r.w.landau