Insurance companies are in business to make money and you do that by not paying claims. To this end states have an insurance regularity commissions. In many instances states have consumer advocates that will listen to the circumstances and compare them to the policy provisions. Gray areas are where the carriers try to operate. Unwinding the exclusions that are NOT present is the bailiwick of the state insurance commissions. Try to find them or any state consumer advocacy office.
Has anyone been successful negotiating with an insurance company which totaled a sailboat due to an electrical fire after they depreciated it by 40K within a three year period? What was your experience?
The cost to repair the damage was small, and it could be covered if either the cause of the damage can be traced back to an insured peril (as defined by your policy) or (if you have an "all risk" type coverage) if the damage was caused by a non-excluded external event (i.e. not just "gradual deterioration"). I believe it may be worth trying to hire an independent loss adjuster to review the case and substantiate the claim to the insurance company. This would be cheaper for you, and if your loss adjuster finds merit in the claim, it would be likely that the insurance company also accepts it and pay the claim.
Yes. We bought our previous boat (hunter 40.5) in April, 1999. Before we put her in, we cleaned, polished and waxed the topside and put some bottom paint on it while still on the hard.
The following Monday at 5am, we received a call from the local Police Dept. of a fire which destroyed the boat.
Initially, our underwriter tried to depreciate everything (mind you it wasn’t even in the water yet). We naturally disagreed and it took 1 year but they eventually paid the full value.
Both the insurance company and the state Fire Marshall investigated the cause of the fire with no conclusion as to cause. Boat was not plugged into shore power and both battery switches were off.
The premium invoice from the underwriter was l still sitting with the unpaid bills which we never did pay as the boat was a total.
Moral of the story - never settle.
Lightning!
Lightning strikes can be caused a number of ways (even if there were no clouds in the sky!), you know, like: the potential buyer that didn't have their offer accepted, a broker that was working on a deal and it was sold out from under him, someone who had previously worked on the boat and wan't paid, maybe the boat was a repo, .....
It wouldn't be the first time.
Thank you for the information and inspiration! The fight has just started!!
After hurricane Andrew struck in the 90's we saw an increase in our premium.. Hmm, call the insurer. Their explanation was that our Bristol 32 represented a size boat that suffered a great loss in numbers due to Andrew. Accordingly all 32's saw an increase in value ( supply and demand) and to hedge against a loss greater than the boats previous value, they re-assessed the remaining boats in the marketplace and increased premiums . How sweet of them...
You need an agreed value policy to avoid them depreciating the vessel. Many agree value policies however require frequent surveys so that the agreed value is maintained to the desired value. If you had an electrical fire what caused it?
No personal experience with Nationwide, but a scroll-thru their site shows an icon of a small powerboat, a long long ways down their list of things/risks that they insure. The appearance of this formatting is that what we old timers call "yacht insurance" with the required features of agreed value, wreck removal and pollution abatement may not be their focus.
My cursory glance is certainly Not proof of anything.... but their focus does not appear to be on our sort of product or risk.
My cursory glance is certainly Not proof of anything.... but their focus does not appear to be on our sort of product or risk.
Prompted by @FastOlson's visit to the Nationwide Site, I found it interesting. The policy seems to be modeled after an auto policy. Terms like Comprehensive, Uninsured Motorist, Underinsured Motorist are terms that have not shown up in my yacht policy. Additional coverage is available and it all seems geared towards power boats and fishing.
No mention of Agreed Hull Value, oil spill coverage, salvage and other items usually included in yacht policies.
What Does Boat Insurance Cover? – Nationwide
Learn more about the types of boat insurance coverage options that can protect you out on the water, and get a free boat insurance quote today.
Boat insurance especially for older cruising boats is upside down right now. The insurance companies lost a huge amount (I believe from over 100,000 claims) on boats in Florida and the south from recent hurricanes. They are all spooked that climate change means their pricing models are out of whack - with good reason. They are cancelling policies left and right - even for people who have never had a claim. And if you do get cancelled - try getting new insurance if you answer "yes" to the box that says "Have you made a claim in the last five years?"
$2000-$3000 is not enough to risk being uninsurable.
$2000-$3000 is not enough to risk being uninsurable.
Here in CA we have small claims court for claims $10,000 and under. No lawyers, at least theoretically. The judge decides the case. This works OK for disputes say between a landlord and tenant over security deposits, etc., but in bringing a claim against an insurance company a professional, likely an attorney, would be there for the company. Point is, small claims typically are not worth the cost of a lawyer plus the court costs so those are disallowed to “level the playing field,” so to speak. Disputes with my policy would be handled by arbitration which would work like a small claims action.
Regrettably, small losses painful as they are, and as infuriating as it is dealing with the company over them, are not worth legal action in the long term if fighting your own insurer. Nearly any policy claim results in a higher renewal premium and lowered insurability. Just remember insurance coverage is ultimately about risk sharing. To quote Commander Riker, “Some days you get the bear, other days the bear gets you.”
Part of maintenance is regular checking of the bilge pump for operation. I remember checking mine a couple of seasons ago to find a connection had loosened and it did not come on at all. Are you sure yours ever ran at all, and had then quit? Also, a boat should have a high water alarm installed to sound off. Maybe a neighbor would hear it, and call you.
Regrettably, small losses painful as they are, and as infuriating as it is dealing with the company over them, are not worth legal action in the long term if fighting your own insurer. Nearly any policy claim results in a higher renewal premium and lowered insurability. Just remember insurance coverage is ultimately about risk sharing. To quote Commander Riker, “Some days you get the bear, other days the bear gets you.”
Part of maintenance is regular checking of the bilge pump for operation. I remember checking mine a couple of seasons ago to find a connection had loosened and it did not come on at all. Are you sure yours ever ran at all, and had then quit? Also, a boat should have a high water alarm installed to sound off. Maybe a neighbor would hear it, and call you.
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Speaking of "risk", the advice to check bilge pumps for actual operation is spot on. Also, since a common risk factor is worn out hoses to below-waterline fittings, be arbitrary about replacing *any* hose that is at or nearing 20 years. Source new hoses thru common industrial vendors, they are cheap (unlike "Tiffany's by the Sea"). Keeping a maintenance log showing these efforts is a good idea too.
One recommendation of my first survey long ago was to “prove” that the manual bilge pump works. The diaphragm on those sometimes deteriorate if not covered and then split when attempting to use. Now I inspect and/or test it about once a year. I flood the bilge with several gallons of fresh water using the dock hose and then pump it out using the bilge pumps. This also tests the high water alarm which actually sounds off prior to the electric pump starting on its separate float switch. I often see “junk” that fouls the screen on the electric. Good way to flush the bilge BUT there’s never any fuel or oil in there. A feature of sail-drive design. The “bilge” underlying the engine is separated from the other bilge compartments.
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