Are travelers obsolete equipment on modern cruising yachts?

[Kings Gambit]

So, having just cruised on a relatively new Hanse 495, and then taken a tour of a new Bavaria 42 and new Dufour 46, I saw no travelers. The broker told me that powerful boom vangs are relied upon to close/open the leech of the mainsail. Indeed, on the Hanse the largest rope clutch and largest block at the mast pad serviced the vang. It was said that regarding cruising, a traveler would be needed only in light air; but with the powerful diesels now installed hardly anybody sails in light airs. What about it?

 

[SG]

If you're ever had your hydraulics on the blink or seen a broken boom, you might think...who needs them.

In light air its less of an issue, for me. In medium to heavy air it's a different story. On a heavier air reach, the boom can have a deflection which can be measured in inches, not millimeters. I'm a lot more comfortable depending on the traveller when possible because were are end-

(We have a NavTec system with a hydraulic vang and backstay adjuster.)

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Provocateur! I've been nearly banned for heresy when I responded to this once before. I've learned my lesson. Do not attempt to sail without a traveler. It's just not done!

 

[SG]

You can sail without one. The Egyptians did ;^)). Maybe the Polynesians too.

Of course they had a different program in mind. The didn't have instruments and watches that measured so "precisely".

 

[Jackdaw]

So, having just cruised on a relatively new Hanse 495, and then taken a tour of a new Bavaria 42 and new Dufour 46, I saw no travelers. The broker told me that powerful boom vangs are relied upon to close/open the leech of the mainsail. Indeed, on the Hanse the largest rope clutch and largest block at the mast pad serviced the vang. It was said that regarding cruising, a traveler would be needed only in light air; but with the powerful diesels now installed hardly anybody sails in light airs. What about it?

That does exactly one half of a traveler's job; the off-wind sailing part.

It gives NO provision to bring the boom to centerline when going upwind. It do this you have to start with the lower traveler case above the CL of the boat. No way around that.

That being said, the new arch systems with short triangulated main-sheets do a pretty close job on big cruising boats, probably close enough for cruisers.

 

[Doug4bass]

Is the "broker " a sailor?

 

[Chief RA]

No thwartsship traveller is rediculous! Tacking upwind ought to be fun without one! Chief

 

[Stu Jackson]

It gives NO provision to bring the boom to centerline when going upwind. .........................................................do a pretty close job on big cruising boats, probably close enough for cruisers.

I guess if you are a cruiser you never sail to weather anyway.

 

[Gunni]

Does sailing 4.5kts to wind in 9kts true on a fine summer day sound better than motoring? Yes, you need a traveler; No, play with your vang and motor.

 

[NotCook]

I guess if you are a cruiser you never sail to weather anyway.

That would explain why there are no cruisers in the Caribbean...

 

[FastOlson]

The traveler is a major sail control and shaping device. The more your rely on sails for propulsion, the more you utilize all of the running rigging to shape your sails. It is not a question of "cruising" or "racing" but rather it's about efficient sailing.
Unfortunately a large depressing number of modern "sailboats" are designed around a very limited sailing envelope, and really are more like a sort of lightweight motorsailer/RV. Since they have a mast and sails the owners can truthfully claim to be "sailors" and not (Heaven forfend) "power boaters".

(Shrug) Oh well, it's the world we live in, eclipses and all!

 

[Doug4bass]

Someone please tell me what a vang has to do with a traveler.....
Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[SG]

They are interrelated, to a greater or lesser extent, depending on how far the boom is away from the centerline of the boat.

Do you have a vang? Hard? Multi-part line and blocks? Hydraulic? Or?

If you have the in the mast Selden furling system, boom kicker, and mid boom sheeting, then the distinctions and options are somewhat different. But the principals would be a little different. Your mainsail condition, material, and cut (within limits) would make a difference

How much do you vary your outhaul to shape the sail in lighter air? (Your choices are more limited)

 

[Doug4bass]

Always thought vangs were for twist and flatness/ power and travelers were for boom angle to the wind. I have it wrong. I need to sell sailboats!

 

[SG]

Doug, your flatter, stiffer in the mast sail has less subtle options. Flattening, with caution to mbe reset before furling is one.

Don't you need to ease the outhaul to be able to do that if you are trying that? You need to have something loose enough to shape?

The in the mast sail is us usually stiffer, flatter, etc in order to furl without a lot of grief.

 

[Kings Gambit]

On the Hanse with no traveler, upwind "performance" in light air was poor as far as pointing was concerned; but, the boat did move surprising well for its weight. As mentioned, could not bring the boom to the centerline of the boat, or higher. Of course, if you're looking at a 40 n.mi. day of travel in 6 to 8 knots of wind, going upwind, I doubt most charter cruisers would do it. We didn't. Fire up the diesel and make 8-9 kt SOG or more, depending on current direction, to destination. Reaching off in 10 kt true wind the boat could make 5-6 kt SOG.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Always thought vangs were for twist and flatness/ power and travelers were for boom angle to the wind. I have it wrong. I need to sell sailboats!

Yeah, the two things have different jobs. But when you build a boat with a big cockpit, Bimini and spray dodger; plus a companionway far forward, there's no good place to put the traveler where it can do much good. Thus, the main sheet blocks are fixed; do not travel. And the kicker boom vang is beefed up to do part of the job a traveler would effectively do--close the leech in light air and open it in heavy air, etc.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Is the "broker " a sailor?

So he said.

 

[weinie]

No traveler here. With a properly cut sail, the boom can be pretty darn close to center without sucking out all the twist. I almost never motor and can sail a very close reach (35* AWA) at a good speed with a code 00 hoisted from a top down furler forward of the forestay. All tell tales flying.
Note the flat water and how much the boat is healing as it flies along with the main strapped in in this 4 knot breeze.

ETA... The 00 can't be used racing though as it is not a jib (doesn't attach to the forestay) and is too small in girth to count as a spinnaker like a true code zero.
Also, with practice, I can play the mainsheet in the gusts almost as fast as a with a traveler. I'm not saying that a traveler is obsolete; I would want one on a dedicated racer, but for 'performance' cruising and weekend club racing...it's not necessary.

It won't point as high as a similarly sized j105 with a 155 Genoa, but when the sea breeze rolls in, I simply furl the 00 and unroll the jib while the J is overpowered. No running to the bow to change headsails. All single handedly.

 

[Joe]

"vang sheeting" is a standard dinghy sailing technique on boats without travelers ... Lasers come to mind. The vang controls the twist and the sheet controls the angle of attack though out all points of sail. On a larger boat, such as those KG experienced, there can be tremendous tension and load put on the gooseneck, enough to blow it out. However, if the stronger, new technology gear is up to the task... so be it.
Some of these "modern" cruising boats obviously value an unencumbered cockpit as a major selling point...but I personally don't think that makes the traveler obsolete....