Are catamaran cruisers fun or not?

[JonnyQuest]

I don't THINK there are too many cat owners on board here to upset by asking this, but I have wanted to get opinions on whether crusiing cats are blah performers when compared to monohulls. I have sailed on small hobies and they were a kick in the pants, but I keep reading that crusier cats like the Geminis are not exciting to sail like a monohull. Kinda like taking a wind powered bus ride as opposed to a sports car. (I am keeping this to cruisers, not the decidedly fast racing cats)

I have never sailed on a cruising cat to have any idea myself.

I will ask the same question at the cruising cats forum, but wanted to get comparison thoughts from fellow monohull sailors.

For the cat owners who read this: I am not trying to bash cats, I am actually interested in considering them as a possible "next boat."

Thanks for dodging the frying pans that are about to fly! :dance:

JQ

 

[31seahorse]

Fun? Not Fun?

Probably a tough comparison to make. Like you, I have only limited experience on a catamaran. Unlike your experience we took a Sunset Cruise on a large catamaran and loved every minute of it. Especially liked the fact that we could move around without grabbing every solid object within reach.

We also considered buying a Maine Cat and still get sales literature from time to time. They were very comfortable from the aspect of interior seating and accomodations in each side hull. What I have not liked is the big "wall" in front of the person at the helm. Wheel stearing in larger boats may eliminate that, but our collective wallet would not permit anything more than thinking about a catamaran for cruising.

I would love to sail on one though! (Just in case someone in Florida needs crew this winter!)

Phil

 

[JonnyQuest]

Thanks Phill,

Based only on photos I see on the Internet, I see some of the Gemini catamarans have a Bimini combined with a short windshield, and no hard coach roof Over the cockpit. And the only cat I see my harbor has the biggest hard coach roof on it. Different strokes for different folks, but I think I might prefer the Bimini and no hard top.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

I had the chance to skipper a late model Lagoon 440 in Italy last Summer. It was a charter boat with 4 queen cabins and 4 heads, with steering on a top fly bridge. I had never been on one except at a boat show.
All of us onboard were flat blown away by the comfort level both sailing and at dock! The extra space just puts larger groups in a better mood.
The actual sailing performance was slightly less than I expected as far as ability to point but I was pleasantly surprised how stable the boat was in very heavy air. We were given very specific reefing instruction and this always made us feel like we were in a safe operating zone.
We were all surprised how easy it was to dock - by locking the steering wheel hub when in tight quarters and using the throttles to skid steer.
I came away feeling that I would probably not buy a larger catamaran, but that they are great to charter. The only exception would be if I was retired one day and could just wander and live on the hook - a smaller cat might make sense. But if going constantly in and out of marinas, I would rather have a monohull.
Also it really made me admire my O'Day 23 even more! for how much fun it gives and asks so little! Feel free to PM with any specific questions.

 

[capejt]

oooh, I've got to get in on this one. Like Johnny, I have a background rich in sailing Hobie Cats (racing them too). In the recent years I have had the opportunity to both skipper a Lagoon cat for several charters and teach bareboat certification. At the time I was living aboard a Jeanneau 50 in Puerto Rico, so that is the monohull reference I used for comparison. It is true that cats, big and small, don't point very high. There is also a slightly different method of tacking. Speed wise, the cat was definately faster even being about fifteen feet shorter. The Lagoon was incredibly stable, but when you really push it and get a hull in the air, it gets the adrenalin going big time! Another thing to remember is that with a monohull, even a light displacement hull, when the weather kicks up the hull slices through the oncoming waves. A cat goes up and over the waves. While that might not necessarily be bad, it DOES take some getting used to.
Overall, if it's just coastal cruising on the weekends, the Lagoon is a winner, though I wouldn't turn down the gift of a Jeanneau 50. anyone? anyone?

 

[Benny17441]

Offshore cats are somewhat of a novelty. Not to long ago they were unsafe for offshore duty. Wher did you say you were considering cruising?
TSGTPB.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Offshore cats are somewhat of a novelty. Not to long ago they were unsafe for offshore duty. Wher did you say you were considering cruising?
TSGTPB.

We would be cruising the northern gulf coast, Louisiana to Florida. Family of four, but only cruising on short trips, 1-3 week stints. Wife and daughter not good in rough seas unfortunately. Possible that a larger monohull or a cat might be more stable than the current Oday 27 for them. (they may yet develop their sea legs, however a bigger boat of some sort will be likely for us either way)

My main concern is that cat sailing might be dull without the boat heeling a bit and the limited forward view from cockpit--the total immersion of wind in your face, etc. while in cockpit. I fear I would miss that aspect.

 

[Jon Bastien]

It's been several years, but I chartered a Gemini 105 down in the FL Keys for a week with 5 people on board. The extra room on board was AWESOME, and the boat was a lot of fun to sail (compared to the '78 Hunter 25 I owned at the time).

The Gemini 105 is designed as a comfy coastal cruiser, with all the amenities of home. It's designed to protect the occupants from the weather (sun, wind, rain), and provide a comfortable place to live rather than to provide a 'spirited' sail to get from A to B. I had two people on board that are prone to sea-sickness, and the motion of the 105 helped keep them 'settled', allowing them to enjoy the trip more.

My only real beef with the boat: the cockpit is completely covered by a hard top, so steering is done looking THROUGH the cabin windows rather than over the cabin top. This produced the only real annoyance I had with the boat; Saltwater spray on the windows effectively blinded the helmsman until they got a fresh water rinse. It also made it difficult to get a feeling for wind and currents.

If you're looking for 'kick-in-the-pants fun', with 'total immersion' and 'wind in your face', you may want to look into designs more like the Maine Cat 30 versus medium-range cruising cats like the Gemini.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Good lead about the Maine Cats, Jon. Looking at their website and reading comments about then they look nice and open when compared to the Geminis, however negative comments suggest they are not as finished as the Geminis. Too hard to tell by web photos, but one comment from someone with experience on both likened the Maine Cat to "sail camping." On the other hand the repeated negative comments on the Geminis are regarding the flex in the bridge deck and the resultant cracks all over the entire boat.

Ultimately Ill just need to see then both in person. None of these pros and cons can fairly be assessed without seeing them in person.

If there are any Maine Cat owners between Pensacola and New Orleans who be interested in introducing me to their MC, please PM me. I know of one Gemini in my area and one for sale in Mobile so Ivan check those out, but they are older models. If there are any Gemini 104 MC owners in this region who would help out too, I'd appreciate it.

Regards

JQ

 

[thinwater]

Also PDQ 32s.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
http://www.zerotocruising.com/how-we-want-to-remember-her/
(watch the video)

Read these blogs and decide if small cats are fun.

_____________

360 degree view from helm, excellent build quality and reliability, and enough speed to leave most 45-foot monohull cruisers in the distance.

 

[RECESS]

Some friends own a Endeavor 30 catamaran. It does not point into the wind very well and is slowed significantly by wave or chop slap on the mid hull. Those are the only two negatives I have experienced. It could use a bit more headroom in the mid ship. It sails almost level on all points of sail. Bringing non sailing friends is a pleasure for them as they do no need to adjust to a heeling boat. It really shines at anchor. I like the thought of one for coastal cruising.

 

[seadaddler]

Gemini

I have a few friends who had Gemini's and they got rid of them with in a year and went back to monohull's,they did not like the way they sailed and did more motoring than sailing compared to monohulls,hard to see from helm.
I did think about getting one before moving to Florida for the shallow and skinny water but after much research decided on my H-36.
I know many who love them or hate them,we did a charter on a 47 cat but $$$$$$$$$ and yes we loved the room and comfort for sure but too much $$$$$$$ for a good one.
They are very nice for sure
Nick

 

[thinwater]

I have a few friends who had Gemini's and they got rid of them with in a year... hard to see from helm.

I wonder why they didn't notice that when they stepped aboard? It didn't change!

In fact, that is the main reason I did not buy a Gemini; I go out side to see where I am!

 

[Bill1565]

I don't THINK there are too many cat owners on board here to upset by asking this, but I have wanted to get opinions on whether crusiing cats are blah performers when compared to monohulls. I have sailed on small hobies and they were a kick in the pants, but I keep reading that crusier cats like the Geminis are not exciting to sail like a monohull. Kinda like taking a wind powered bus ride as opposed to a sports car. (I am keeping this to cruisers, not the decidedly fast racing cats)

I have never sailed on a cruising cat to have any idea myself.

I will ask the same question at the cruising cats forum, but wanted to get comparison thoughts from fellow monohull sailors.

For the cat owners who read this: I am not trying to bash cats, I am actually interested in considering them as a possible "next boat."

Thanks for dodging the frying pans that are about to fly! :dance:

JQ

CHARTER ONE. This Is a very subjective "freely" thing. You can save yourself from a grievous big dollar mistake. Maybe even charter two.

 

[shemandr]

Back to the original question: Are cruising cats any fun?
By fun I think you mean to sail.
I haven't sailed on a cruising cat and so by that definition shouldn't comment. 'cept that I see them out on the water and I would judge the cruising versions (Let's exclude the Gunboats and other high enders) are not stellar performers. IMHO when they are laden with all the goodies, a lot of their sailing advantage is negated - in other words, weight.
When I look at reviews in the magazines of cruising cats their displacement isn't that much less than a keelboat of the same length. And I've always had a problem with the concept that dragging another hull around, with it's engine, transmission, head(s), is so much better than a monohull with a keel.
That combined with their sketchy upwind performance looks like not that much fun. I've looked at the numbers and in the cruising arena that's what it seems like to me.
There are a lot of other attributes with regard to space, less heal etc that could recommend them but that is another question.
Helmut on.

 

[JonnyQuest]

Back to the original question: Are cruising cats any fun?
By fun I think you mean to sail.
I haven't sailed on a cruising cat and so by that definition shouldn't comment. 'cept that I see them out on the water and I would judge the cruising versions (Let's exclude the Gunboats and other high enders) are not stellar performers. IMHO when they are laden with all the goodies, a lot of their sailing advantage is negated - in other words, weight.
When I look at reviews in the magazines of cruising cats their displacement isn't that much less than a keelboat of the same length. And I've always had a problem with the concept that dragging another hull around, with it's engine, transmission, head(s), is so much better than a monohull with a keel.
That combined with their sketchy upwind performance looks like not that much fun. I've looked at the numbers and in the cruising arena that's what it seems like to me.
There are a lot of other attributes with regard to space, less heal etc that could recommend them but that is another question.
Helmut on.

Sorry, YES I was referring to their sailing qualities as you thought.

Thanks to everyone for contributing here. Ultimately a charter or cruising with a cat owner would be the only way to see how much the cockpit enclosures detract from the sailing experience. Speed may not be a big issue for me as 5-6 knots seems quick to me with my ODay 27. However I understand that the perceived speed thrill may be less on a wider bigger cat.

We had a great day sailing yesterday with moderate heeling in 10-15 knot winds. Was hitting 6.3 knots and averaging 5.5 almost all day. Perfect sailing day for me.

Though the boat was a little cramped with the 5 people on board. We were expecting 7 total, but son and mom had to stay home. Hence thoughts of a Gemini for size factor! --it's a set of compromises in choosing your NEXT boat!

 

[thinwater]

... We had a great day sailing yesterday with moderate heeling in 10-15 knot winds. Was hitting 6.3 knots and averaging 5.5 almost all day.

For comparison, a Gemini or PDQ would be hitting 9 knots under plain sail (over 10 with chute) and averaging 7 1/2 under those conditions. Had a day just like that this weekend, cruised about 70 miles, and passed lots of folks, including several trawlers under power. It was fun.

While I can't comment on some heavily laden cats--I've seen some very slow ones with undersized charter rigs--I've never met a cruising monohull under 45 feet that I couldn't leave on any course other than dead up wind (on a very close reach I would lose them). And while I cannot point with a well sailed monohull, I can certainly reach any destination before a same-length cruising monohull. And that's carrying a dingy on davits, which is a joy most smaller monohulls can't manage. I can't imagine a cruising boat without davits.

More fun? That's touchy-feely; I love sailing monohull dingies just as much as beach cats. Which I prefer depends on the situation. If speed were everything, we'd have power boats. But more speed does mean more range.