Are Brand Name Builders using Epoxy now?

Doug4bass · Apr 20, 2015

Catalina "5" Series is using Vinylester Resin. Per their website.

BigEasy · Apr 20, 2015

My understanding is that most of the major production builders are using vinyl ester resin in the outer layer under the gel coat, then using polyester in succeeding internal layers. Vinyl ester is less impervious to water absorption. I don't have a clue as to what the thickness of the layers are or what type of cloth is used. They are continuing to used chopped strand under the gelcoat to prevent telegraphing of the cloth pattern thru the gelcoat. Also, many builders are using vaucuum bagging techniques to ensure that the cloth fibers are totally saturated with resin to prevent problems associated with blistering. The vacuum techniques also result in less resin usage, lighter, & stiffer hulls. It is possible that some of the higher end boats and custom builders may use epoxy resin, but I don't really know.

kloudie1 · Apr 20, 2015

My understanding is same as Big Easy.. Most of the thickness is polyester and the last couple of layers are vinylester.. To my knowledge no one builds a completely epoxy hull because of the cost mostly. It seems to me that the major builders started using the vinylester pretty much across the board in the late '90's..or very early 2000's.. as I recall, there were still some issues with the wetting agent in the raw glass cloth causing a little blistering too..

Brian S · Apr 20, 2015

Winder Boats builds the GP14 out of epoxy GRP. And the RS Areo is epoxy resin foam core glass with the carbon fiber reinforcement.

But those are little racing dinghies.

If anyone wants to buy me one, lemme know!

kloudie1 · Apr 20, 2015

I see that the new Farr 280 is using epoxy in the hull.. A full race 28 foot speedster...
http://www.farryachtsales.com/sales/boat/farr-280-one-design

Jackdaw · Apr 20, 2015

Vinylester resin + E-glass is a very good bump up from poly for a moderate cost adder. It is stronger and much more resistant to osmosis. Beneteau factory tells you to NOT barrier coat new bottoms.

Epoxy offer more strength and even more osmosis resistance, but as 2-3x resin cost. And it's real benefit comes when coupled with carbon fiber mat, now forget looking at costs!

Net-net, the big production guys will being using vinylester for a long, long time.

Doug4bass · Apr 20, 2015

My new C-385 was barrier coated by the dealer with the dealer's recommendation. And with Catalina's blessing. Fresh water....
'

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Apr 20, 2015

Catalina switched to vinyl ester in 1995. So no need to barrier coat for blister protection.

However a couple of well prepped coats of barrier cost in a contrasting color is good as a base for bottom paint. We "hot coated" our first layer of bottom paint. Nice smooth clean job every haul out. Just sand off the blue until you see gray but don't go to white. Wash down and wipe with acetone and repaint. We will probably add another layer of barrier coat next haul out but that will have been 6 years since taking the hull down to bear and starting again.

Doug4bass · Apr 20, 2015

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Catalina switched to vinyl ester in 1995. So no need to barrier coat for blister protection.

Not correct. Catalina may have switched to Vinylester in '95 but my 99 270 had gelcoat blisters (pox) after the second year in the water. Much to Catalina's credit. ...(Frank), a new bottom was applied twice, once waaaaaay out of warranty. The barrier coat on the c385 gives me the warm fuzzys.

Not my idea...but I'll take it.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Apr 21, 2015

Doug4bass said:
Not correct. Catalina may have switched to Vinylester in '95 but my 99 270 had gelcoat blisters (pox) after the second year in the water. Much to Catalina's credit. ...(Frank), a new bottom was applied twice, once waaaaaay out of warranty. The barrier coat on the c385 gives me the warm fuzzys. Not my idea...but I'll take it.

I have read that earlier on in the switch they had some isolated instances but that those were tracked down to human error. So a 1999 boat with that issue is more isolated incident than the norm. But it sucks when you are that incident. Sorry to hear but it seems like you still had a positive opinion of Catalina over all.

Fair winds,

Jesse

Maciek · Apr 21, 2015

Other resins are fraction of the cost of the epoxy. That's reason why manufacturers are using them. I'm glad that my catamaran is pure epoxy and..... carbon fiber.

Grouperhound · Apr 21, 2015

Pox

Jackdaw said:
Vinylester resin + E-glass is a very good bump up from poly for a moderate cost adder. It is stronger and much more resistant to osmosis. Beneteau factory tells you to NOT barrier coat new bottoms.

Epoxy offer more strength and even more osmosis resistance, but as 2-3x resin cost. And it's real benefit comes when coupled with carbon fiber mat, now forget looking at costs!

Net-net, the big production guys will being using vinylester for a long, long time.

Interesting. My 2013 Beneteau OC 45 had small pox on the transom above the design water line. These boats sit lower in the water at the stern than what I'm sure was intended by the designers, especially with added options such as my Genset. Part of the transom freeboard above the water line ends up wet. During lasts years prep for bottom paint I noted small blisters in this area. I myself sanded them out, masked, and then barrier coated up to just above the previous stain line witness mark. I suppose I should have gel coated the area.

I'm dubious of any claims to forgo barrier coating. My boat has Pacifica and now Micron CF(very similar). They recommend a hot coat for the first coat.

Davidasailor26 · Apr 21, 2015

Grouperhound said:
I'm dubious of any claims to forgo barrier coating. My boat has Pacifica and now Micron CF(very similar). They recommend a hot coat for the first coat.

Beneteau doesn't just recommend against barrier coating, they actually state that the sanding that the barrier coat manufacturers recommend before coating will void Beneteau's warranty.

Grouperhound · Apr 21, 2015

I guess I voided the warranty.

Jackdaw · Apr 21, 2015

Davidasailor26 said:
Beneteau doesn't just recommend against barrier coating, they actually state that the sanding that the barrier coat manufacturers recommend before coating will void Beneteau's warranty.

I was going to mention that.

Pyewacket · Apr 21, 2015

CloudDiver said:
I know this might be a silly question, but I couldn't find a straight answer anywhere else.
Have the major brand name boat builders shifted from Polyester Resin to Epoxy Resin for assembly line GRP construction? Vinyl Ester Resin maybe?
(Not talking about custom boats, just the big name assembly line stock sailboats and 'semi-customs')

When I am looking at newer model year used boats for sale I am wondering if there is a certain time frame when there was a shift in manufacturing to better resins. Some day in the future I would hope that the next used boat I buy will be made with Epoxy resin so I don't have osmotic blister worries.

CloudDriver,

C&C/Tartan made hundreds of epoxy resin boats, they probably still do. They had some problems about ten years ago that appeared to me to be early production problems with a new and unfamiliar resin. Those problems appear to be solved now. You can search the internet for more on this.

I would buy an epoxy resin boat over any of the poly or vinyl resin boats. Much stronger, lighter, less blister prone if done correctly.

flatlander · Apr 21, 2015

straight from C&C website
SPECS of Redline 41

HULL & DECK:
• Vinylester vacuum infused composite hull and deck construction.
• Foam core laminate with biaxial and uni directional E-glass fabrics.
• Full compliance: European RCD(CE), ISO 12217-2 Category A certification.
• Cast iron fin/lead bulb keel 7,232 lbs (3,280 kg), epoxy coated
• White gelcoat hull and deck finish.

and from OPTIONS

Bottom Paint, epoxy primer with two coats antifouling

Epoxy resin, and Epoxy - Carbon laminate is very pricey

most of us "common folk" will be adding bottom paint