Are all racers this crazy?

[Gary Wyngarden]

This is an excerpt from a letter sent in to 48 North, the Seattle sailing rag, and published in the December issue:"On Friday before the Around the County Race, we were on our way in Neptune's Car (Santa Cruz 70) to Orcas Island from Seattle. We were sailing with the small main and the cruising chute. During an attempted jibe in 39 knots of true wind, we successfully wrapped the spinnaker around the forestay and broke the boom in half, tearing the main sail...."The rest of the letter goes on to explain how they recovered and went on to race successfully over that weekend. The letter was followed by an editorial comment including words like "amazing" and "pretty impressive." No words of remorse were expressed for perhaps being overcanvassed.My own editorial comment is "pretty stupid!" Who in the hell flies a spinnaker in 39 knots of wind? And they weren't even racing yet, just on their way to the race. They broke the boom during a jibe. Anyone ever hear of a preventer? Can you spell r-e-e-f? These guys have a big boat and are reputedly successful sailors and racers though sometimes I wonder if the two can be the same.Smacks to me of an excess of testosterone and rum.Any thoughts?Gary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5

 

[Don]

everything is relative

although I would agree with you that this seems excessive, my son, who is an avid racer, would find nothing abnormal about it and probably think it is quite typical.Perception is everything...

 

[s sauer]

Point of View

So how is that different than a stock car racer blowing an engine in a practice session; or a pro football player having a serious injury in a pre-season game?Sure, their damage seemes like they may be on the edge of controlling the boat in those conditions, but I'd guess you don't own a Santa Cruz 70 just for round the bouys Wednesday night beer-can races. The guys who race at the top bracket need to practice in the same conditions they'd face in a race. Maybe these guys need more not less practice in those conditions. The fact that they continued on and presumably raced the next day shows the attitude you'd expect of a crew and boat trying to maintain itself at that top bracket.My son routinely races on a J105 in conditions in which we'd stay in the Marina; but they are the 1st place boat on the Bay because they can practice or race at that level.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I used to race on a

Beneteau 285. During one race with winds in the 30-35+ kt range, we were in fourth place as we approached the downwind marker. The first boat rounded the marker, popped his chute, and it promptly ripped in half. The second and third boats did the same thing, with the same results. As we neared the marker, we asked the owner/skipper if he wanted us to pop the chute as we seemed to have perfect knowledge of what would happen if we did. He gave us the thumbs up -- and then we spent the next few minutes gathering up the tattered spinnaker we had just hoisted. We did finish second, however. But it was a pretty expensive race for the owner/skipper. I asked him later when we were at the bar and reviewing the race film why he chose to have us raise the chute when we were all pretty certain it would blow out. He sort of gave me a wry smile and simple said "...because everyone else was doing it and he didn't want to look like a wuss...." That sums it up.

 

[Grizz]

Spare boom?

While attempting to avoid entering the "pretty impressive vs pretty stupid" fray, I do find it impressive they were able to locate a spare boom in time to compete in the balance of the races. I'd like to know how they accomplished that feat; was it, like Stuart alluded, simliar to a NASCAR team having a spare engine or did they put out an Emergency APB to borrow one from a competitor (further evidence of the existance of the corinthian spirit) or worse, acquire a new one. I know boats racing The Mac will continue to fly a chute in similar conditions, albeit a 'chicken chute', but still constituting a spinnaker. The Siren's song of boat speed and standing on that top rung of the podium does crazy things (oops, just jumped into the fray!). Hope no one was hurt...

 

[Bob Todd]

Good on them...

These guys sail at a level far above me (and I dare say most of us) and they are certainly capable of judging the conditions. What you fail to take into consideration is that these guys, and the boats they race, operate best "on the edge." Just like any other boat at that level, one mistake can have dire consequences.Cheers,Bob

 

[John Nantz]

Just having fun mate!

Several years ago I viewed a tape that Bruce McPherson of Elliott Bay Yacht Sales in Seattle showed me (link about Bruce http://www.elliottbayyachtsales.com/bruce_mcpherson.htm). He is a Kiwi who used to race professionally on Flying 18's. These are "boats" with about a 12ft bowsprit (at least it seems that long) and the boat is extreemly high-tech to say the least.The video was of a TV broadcast with had the viewing of something like the Superbowl over here. The video of these one design boats racing on a day with total whitecaps was really impressive. One mistake or miscalculation and you pitchpolled. The announcer who gave the "blow-by-blow" of what was hapening was awsome. With his Kiwi accent he gave a fast-paced description of the event and because it was in New Zealand he didn't have to explain what a boom, mast, bowsprit, spinnaker, etc. was to an ignorant public.While the Flying 18's are not nearly the length of Neptune's Car, they are nevertheless quite expensive boats costing tens of thousands of dollars, and one capsize or pitchpole can be very expensive. Also, in one race on the video, there were no less than three crash-and-burns as I recall. Isn't New Zealand where they have extreme bungee jumping?Unfortunately, Bruce loaned the tape to someone, he doesn't remember who, and it was never returned.Ronstan, though, has for sale some VHS and DVDs of similar races on their web site at http://www.ronstan.com.au/marine/range.asp?RnID=262 (bottom of web page).Jeeze, Gary, I think maybe we're probably just getting along in years. These younger guys still have a lot of testosterone and male hormones so maybe it takes time for some of that stuff to sorta calm down a little. To them money is not a major issue (someone else is buying) and in the excitement of the moment they probably don't consider consequences, assuming any of them even knew what the consequences might be. It takes time to learn about those things might happen.

 

[newly anonymous]

gary, think about apparent wind

The hull speed on that boat is going to be around 12 knots, and with a good breeze it will certainly plane. So if the wind is 39 knots true, the apparent wind is only 27 knots. This is certainly within the range of a heavy-weather chute. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more invigorating than a ULDB sled surfing downwind. A Santa Cruz 70 was designed specifically for downwind sailing on the Transpac. You call it crazy, but that's only because you haven't yet experienced how fun that sort of crazy can be, especially if someone else is paying for the sails. And boom.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Must be nice

to sail a big boat and not have to worry about the cost of replacing sails and gear. I assume a boat like the one described is owned by a syndicate or a guzzillionaire with money to burn -- or toss into the water. Comparing this kind of "sailing" to what the average guy on an average boat does doesn't compute, just like a NASCAR car and my car can't be compared. I don't keep extra booms, sails, or engines around because I can't afford to.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

12 knots hull speed?

I was thinking that boats HS is closer to 20. Then they surf. They run 'em faster than that to Hawaii for nearly a week at a time. Then they're there.

 

[Bill]

seems like...

Seems like they were having a good time... I bet it was exciting!Keep in mind they wonder who on earth would ever throw good money at a cruising boat. Just a difference of opinion. Both racing and cruising are fun- just have to keep one seperate from the other.The other thing about putting up a chute in those conditions is that the one dude who can hold it and wipe out less than the others (or recover faster) wins. Carnage is part of racing. Not interested? Don't go. But it seems kind of in bad form to bad mouth the guys out there letting fly with everything they've got, just like it's bad form when they bad mouth some cruiser going by with dodger/bimini/dinghy, etc...and FWIW- most big programs like that race without the rum... that's for afterwardJust my $0.02Bill

 

[TT23844]

Gary ?

Can you spell E-G-O & B-A-L-L-S ??? Racing & racers can be perceived as absolutely insane etc by cruising sailors. Especially the ones who will spend several years cruising budget just to win some dumb trophy in a single series or event. But can you tell me a better way to learn to sail? In racing you're focused, or your skipper is focused & you're ordered, to get the most out of the boat at any given moment. Anything else is at best, secondary; at the least, totally irrelevant. I wouldn't go back there (racing) for love 'nor money, but I don't regret for a minute the time I spent crewing on a racing boat as it taught me more about sailing than I could have learned in several years cruising. And my experience suggests the the rum bottle is left on the dock by any serious racer.

 

[Tom Spohn]

Neptune's Car

is a common sight on the Seattle Waterfront and is usually in the winner's column when they enter races. While 39 knots is a bit much for me and my boat I don't think it would be unusual for a 70 footer.http://www.sailingseattle.com/neptune.htm

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Racing ...

One of the reasons I have a devil may care attitude about some of the "What would you do" threads stems from years of racing. After you have raced in 30-50 knots of breeze, it is hard to think of 20-25 as being a big deal, certainly not a panic situation. When you are racing, you push yourself and the boat to extremes that you would never attempt while cruising. A SC70 is not even close to being stressed in only 39 knots true with the delivery main and a small spinnaker up. The boat should be doing 17+ knots so the apparent wind on deck is only 22 knots (or less). Gybing with 22 knots across the deck should be no problem at all. In fact since the boat was *not* being raced, they probably had a laid back attitude going into the gybe and got sloppy. When you are racing, you carry enough sail so that you are fully powered up in the *lulls*, overpowered in the "average" wind and on the ragged edge of control in the gusts. When cruising, good seamanship and comfort demand that you are seldom overpowered in the gusts and you sacrifice that extra tenth of a knot during average wind and lulls.As far as spinnakers go, the rule is "Put it up, if God doesn't like it, let him take it down." Not crazy at all.

 

[Gary Wyngarden]

Thanks for the perspective!

It's a good reminder not to project my own values onto other people.I guess what bugs me is that I take my sailing very seriously. It's extremely important to me that I sail my boat well and maintain my boat well. Sailing my boat well includes sailing my boat fast. I have just as much fun as the next guy getting into informal races out on the water, seeing how well my boat performs against others and how good my sailing skills are against those of others.But all of those speed considerations are secondary to the safety of my crew and my boat. My Hunter is not a 70 foot racing boat, but my experience is that she sails faster with a sail plan that makes sense for conditions. To my mind sailing with a full main and a spinnaker in 39 knots true (even if the apparent is understandably less) doesn't make sense.When you're that close to the edge, you're sailing recklessly in my opinion in that the least little thing that goes wrong compromises the safety of both boat and crew (as happened in this case). And that's not good sailing from my perspective. And that's one of the reasons I don't race.BTW I raised the issue of rum only because it was mentioned twice in the letter in 48 North including once out on the water immediately after the incident. It's apparent from your comments that others see the situation differently, and I appreciate the perspective you've provided.Gary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5

 

[Stu Jackson]

And then there are those of us

who do both. I agree, Gary, that "It's extremely important to me that I sail my boat well and maintain my boat well. Sailing my boat well includes sailing my boat fast."One way to think about it: Same concept, different gear.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Gary, you are right...

It does not make sense to sail a non-planing hull in 39 knots with a spinnaker up. Boats that don't gain stability from higher speeds by planing just get hard to handle when pressed much above their hull speed.I once drove my C30 downwind in 35+ with a single reef and the 110 poled out. The boat was extremely hard to steer and we hit 12.4 knots at least once (the knot meter was pegged at 10 for minutes at a time, GPS recorded a 10 second max of 12.4). It was not the safest thing I've ever done. My 70 year old father was driving, my daughter's boyfriend was green and useless, and my daughter was bailing the cabin with a bucket after sheets of water came over the deck and found their way below. The 45 footer ahead of me was looking back to see if I was going to set the spinnaker. If I set, they would have no choice but to set also to save their time. After the third time the bow buried and the water on deck was 6 inches deep at the mast, we backed off. Catalina 30's don't surf well. I now know just what to expect sailing downwind in heavy air.For me, damaging the boat in what should have been a routine gybe (for that boat and crew) is what is alarming. It reminds me that we must take care no matter what our opinion of our boat and gear is.

 

[catwithhat]

Boom Brace!

No spare boom. They patched it seem the letter and picture for yourselfhttp://www.48north.com/dec_2006/letters.htmBTW: They did say they flew the "small" main!Ax

 

[Gary Wyngarden]

Care to join me?

The NOAA forecast for our waters this afternoon is for 45 to 55 knot southerlies. I was thinking about taking Wanderlust out on Juan de Fuca Strait and trying out the spinnaker. Of course we'd be going down wind so the apparent wind would be less. Anyone care to join me? We'll show those racer types a thing or two about boat speed! Fred, John, Tom? ;DGary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5

 

[Alain Pascal]

crazy racers?

Hi Gary, You actually started an interesting Thread here!My two cents on this:40 knt for a 72ft sled is not 40 knt on our average 30ft cruiser.Racing is a different animal,so are the boats.I think these guys need to pracice in every conditions and no doubt this boom was insured!Is it irresponsible? Read some threads on this site of people being cut off by pwer boat or 'expecting' their right of way from other cruiser who may not even know what rule you are talking about.Then:Winning the J24 North American, Clear air popped the chute in near 30knt during the last day of the regatta, most J showed their keel that day, but Rossy kept the boat under the mast and returned with the plaque. That is 30 knt wind in a 24ft racing boat.A C&C 40 called Foxhund was modified with deep bulb keel, stripped interior, multiple spreaders tall rid and dry sailed (the owner bought his own saddle crane for it!) Anyone in the Vancouver area who raced about 10 years ago will recall foxhound winning almost everything he entered.Then there is Mir a beautiful beneteau racing 30ft who was first Canadian boat in 20 yr. to win Chicago Makinaw a few years back, the boat was soooo fast that it actually past us on the highway somewhere in Kentuky on the trip back home but that is another story... All these required quick knowledgeble responses from the crew.I remember going on a big boats that was a favorite for 'racing around the can' some years back. The first thing I did was to request permission to remove 2 of the 3 anchors and chain, the inflatable stored under the cockpit, the bimini and dodger, emptied the water tank and ask if it would be possible not to fill the diesel tank to the brim anymore. We started winnning, after that even the sails that were not going to be used for a race were left on the dock, we kept 16 beers and 8 bottles of water (crew of 8) on board period. Probably things that, as cruisers we would never leave without.As a final word, an F1 racer once said he did not mind 200mph on the race track but refused to drive on public road with all the crazy people cutting you off in barely running cars with no brakes... It is all a mather of opinion.Here I am being too long again, sorry ! a.