anyone have a capacity plate on their 1979 25 ft O Day?

Benny17441 · Oct 18, 2016

The manufacturer of a 25' sailboat would not be required to provide a maximum capacity plate. It is the responsibility of the person in command to determine the maximum capacity according to the prevalent and anticipated conditions on the water. This was not established by omission but by the fact that a safe limit cannot be set for all conditions. What may be reasonable and adequate for fair weather may be unsafe in foul weather conditions. Also mere weight is a poor measurement for people; a good Captain will separate swimmers from non-swimmers, experienced sailors from novices, kids from adults and from elderly. He will gauge different combinations to determine the number of persons he can safely take care off. A good gauge for a sailboat is to observe the waterline; while an inch or two of water over the painted line may be acceptable six inches would tend to indicate significant overloading.

Sunbird22358 · Oct 19, 2016

If any 25s were sold for use In Canada, they "MIGHT" have had Capacity Plate, as I understand they ARE required there, although I'm not sure when that standard was enacted. However, I agree with Benny17441, although.... all the thoughts that he mentions for sailboats, apply just as much (sometimes even more!) to power boats.

centerline · Oct 20, 2016

Sunbird22358 said:
If any 25s were sold for use In Canada, they "MIGHT" have had Capacity Plate, as I understand they ARE required there, although I'm not sure when that standard was enacted. However, I agree with Benny17441, although.... all the thoughts that he mentions for sailboats, apply just as much (sometimes even more!) to power boats.

boats within the US and Canada, over 20 ft, are not required to have a capacity plate.
Canadian boats over 20 ft are required to have a conformity plate, but it does not state the capacity... mostly just the DOM, the builder, and the boat model.....

all boats under 20ft, manufactured in the US after 1971 are required to have a capacity plate, with a couple of exceptions, which fall within one off home-built boats, and mostly those that are intended for use by the builder.

centerline · Oct 20, 2016

Jeff22156 said:
Thank you Centerline for your response

you can do a google search for the formula as to how a boat is measured for its recommended capacity, but keep in mind, that "gear" is usually a static load, but people are a dynamic load.
dynamic loads are those that are free to move around and can shift its weight without warning. a static load will remain static until something moves it, then it becomes dynamic.... tied down it will remain static.
so a boat loaded fully with people may be fine on a calm lake, but if a large wake should happen to cause the boat to rock severly, the dynamic load can all get tossed to the wrong side of the boat at the wrong time, and cause a serious problem.... its for this reason that a boat capacity plate differentiates between people and gear weights.

Sunbird22358 · Oct 20, 2016

centerline said:
boats within the US and Canada, over 20 ft, are not required to have a capacity plate.
Canadian boats over 20 ft are required to have a conformity plate, but it does not state the capacity... mostly just the DOM, the builder, and the boat model.....

all boats under 20ft, manufactured in the US after 1971 are required to have a capacity plate, with a couple of exceptions, which fall within one off home-built boats, and mostly those that are intended for use by the builder.

That USCG requirement (since 01NOV 1972) for Capacity Plates ONLY applies to POWER boats, not sail boats or inflatables. ABYC recommends that all powerboats 25' and under have Capacity Plates.
My comment about Canadian boats was based on a request from a MARINER owner, and I did not realize it only applied to boats under 20' (I wonder it even applies to sail boats?) I am familiar with USCG requirements after 26 years of USCGAUX Vessel Exam experience, but not as up on Canadian rules.

centerline · Oct 23, 2016

Jeff22156 said:
Amazing that not one sailboat owner 20 to 25 ft range has a capacity plate on their sailboat.

If it true as Sunbird said, sailboats are exempt from the capacity plate rule, then that would explain why they dont have them....
I did not realize sailboats were exempt but if they are, the inspector cant require you to have one. and although he may recommend it, the lack of it wont have any impact on the outcome of your inspection...
Recommended vs. Required.....

Stu Jackson · Oct 23, 2016

Jeff22156 said:
The Coast Guard examiner did ask for a capacity plate so I that is why I am asking

I've had CG inspectors, NOT the auxiliary, come on board my old Catalina 25 and ask for oil placards. Real, real CG folks, Not the weekend auxiliary helpers, who are quite good, too. I had to explain, patiently, to the inspector that it was NOT required on my outboard powered boat. It happens to the best of 'em.

Sunbird22358 · Oct 23, 2016

I once heard about an owner of an older CAL 34 who was boarded by the USCG and the lead Boarding Officer told a junior member of the team that they didn't need to check for a Backfire Arrestor on the boat because sailboats have Diesels..... That CAL, like many boats of her vintage still had the original ATOMIC-4 inboard........ Yes, GAS! I think they did have the engine compartment open when he said that, so he should have seen the sparkplugs on the top of the engine block?

BTW: Stu, that CG Boarding Officer checking your Catalina 25 was wrong on 2 points.... 1) as you said, outboard boats are not technically required to have the "Oily Discharge Placard" 2) Placard is only required on boats 26' or larger (and with a "machinery compartment".)

PS: I'm safe if boarded........ (don't laugh!!!) I DO have both the Oil Discharge and Garbage Disposal Placards displayed on my DS II. <GRIN!> Delusions of Granduer strikes again!

centerline · Oct 23, 2016

Stu Jackson said:
I've had CG inspectors, NOT the auxiliary, come on board my old Catalina 25 and ask for oil placards. Real, real CG folks, Not the weekend auxiliary helpers, who are quite good, too. I had to explain, patiently, to the inspector that it was NOT required on my outboard powered boat. It happens to the best of 'em.

I agree not all inspectors have the same qualifications... they are only human like the rest of us.
no matter how much training and certificates one has to show they completed the training course, the individual will only ever be as good as he/she is at absorbing and remembering what he/she was exposed to while being taught in the class...
a certificate and a title is not what makes one qualified for the job they hold....

Stu Jackson · Oct 23, 2016

Sunbird22358 said:
1) as you said, outboard boats are not technically required to have the "Oily Discharge Placard" 2) Placard is only required on boats 26' or larger (and with a "machinery compartment".)

Yup, both are what I told them. Good points.

centerline · Oct 24, 2016

Sunbird22358 said:
I am familiar with USCG requirements after 26 years of USCGAUX Vessel Exam experience

with your qualifications, maybe you can clarify this for me.... My boat is equipped with an older placard that is in perfect condition and perfectly legible, that has both the garbage disposal information and the oil discharge information on it, two separate paragraphs.... during my last CG-Aux inspection, the inspector had to read it to realize it had all the correct information on it, but she said it needs to be individual placards and not a combined placard... I passed and they gave me my sticker but said I need to get the correct placards in place..... so was there a law change that would require me to need new placards, or is this one I have still valid and she just didnt realize because she has never saw a "combined" placard before?...

Stu Jackson · Oct 24, 2016

centerline said:
but she said it needs to be individual placards and not a combined placard...

Bloody bureaucrats! Just take a box cutter and slice it!

centerline · Oct 24, 2016

Stu Jackson said:
Bloody bureaucrats! Just take a box cutter and slice it!

I can usually find the simplest solution to almost any problem I encounter, but this one escaped me

....

it does sound more or less like a bureaucratic issue, but it may also be one of those times where ones mouth runs ahead of their brain because they dont really know... but then, a scenario like that would be sooo rare that it would be hard to imagine...... NOT!

Sunbird22358 · Oct 24, 2016

Oil Discharge Placard MUST be "at least 5 by 8 inches, made of durable material, fixed in a conspicuous place in the machinery spaces, or at the bilge pump control station"
The "MARPOL" Placard (Marine Pollution) MUST be at least 4" by 9" and posted in a "prominent location notifying crew and passengers of the discharge restrictions". There is currently some discussion over changes to the MARPOL Placard specs, but it appears that the basic size will stay the same.

The Oil Placard is normally in the engine compartment (or at the bilge pump switch) and the MARPOL Placard is normally In the Galley or Head compartment (I often suggest applying the self-adhesive type to the waste basket if the boat has one, or sometimes in the cockpit) We used to look for it "where anyone coming aboard would see it".

I've never seen a combined Placard that is sized to meet the requirements, but I'm sure that combined versions have been made. I would think though, that a combined placard would need to be about 9" x 9" and the 2 separate placards would be easier to find room for. If the 2 parts of the combined placard each meet the size and wording requirements, they "MAY" be still OK (but I'll have to check on that and get back to you), but I would suggest contacting the Vessel Examiner that checked your boat and ask if she has any of the FREE stick-on MARPOL and OIL Placards (2 separate stickers) that are available from the AUX National Supply Center. That way you will be prepared if ever boarded and the USCG Boarding Officer doesn't accept the combined placard. Those stick-on placards definitely meet the sizing and wording requirements.

There is also a Q&A section of the AUX VSC web-site (www.safetyseal.net) where you could post this question to the "experts".

anyone have a capacity plate on their 1979 25 ft O Day?

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