Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel?

[rardiH36]

Over the last several years, for various reasons, I've sometimes opted to attach rigging hardware with Amsteel instead of normal stainless steel "U" or "horseshoe" type shackles.

Is anyone else doing this? For what applications?

My most recent Amsteel "soft shackle" application is in the attached picture. I cobbled together unused Harken big boat low friction cheek blocks (ball bearing + roller bearing sheaves) into a triple block for my main sheet at the traveler. The 1/4" Amsteel is rated at 8600 lbs breaking strength. Should be amply strong. Plus likely even greater since the load is shared among the four turns between the "block" and the traveler. No metal shackle would have worked here. The Amsteel was the solution in this case.

 

[RichH]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

Rardi - you'd better learn how to do a "brummel splice", etc. in that amsteel.


http://www.animatedknots.com/brummel/
http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/misc/splicing_instructions_for_web_rev_1_2.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDW8OwL0Oc

 

[Ken Prichard]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

Use them everywhere. They're all over my boat. I usually tie a dozen or so during the winter and then end up giving most of them away. So a lot of the guys I sail with are using soft shackles too.
They're not hard to make. The brummel is pretty straight forward. The challenge is the knot.
Check the sites RichH posted.

 

[rardiH36]

Rardi - you'd better learn how to do a "brummel splice", etc. in that amsteel.

Rich: Looked at your links (thanks) and agree that I've got to up my splicing game. The loop in the picture should be plenty strong though. Multiple weaves of each end into the other side. And lock-stitched with several independent threads of seizing line. The "tangle" at interface of the Amsteel shackle and the SS shackle in my picture is a separate two foot length of 1/8" Amsteel which I used to cinch the Amsteel shackle firmly against the steel one so that it doesn't shift around. All seems to be well over the first several outings, but I'll be observing the behavior of the connection and modify if anything looks amiss.

 

[Rick Sylvester]

The Brummell is the correct splice for a fixed eye but it won't work for a soft shackle. A soft shackle needs the eye to open and close.

Soft shackles are easy ( and cheap) to make. A foot of 1/4" Amsteel will set you back less than $2 and you can make it in just a couple minutes. WM sells them for nearly $30 ( ack!)

 

[Joe]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

rardi....... are you able to open and close your "soft shackle" easily? otherwise it is a "lashing". All the soft shackles I've seen employ a spool like piece to secure the corded loop.

PS... just checked some vids on splicing a dyneema soft shackle.... cool, I have some amsteel short stuff that will be perfect for the project..... Good idea.

 

[Brian S]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

I use an Amsteel Blue soft shackle to attach my spinnaker sheets to my cruising asym. I figured it's best to not have some metal shackle flinging around there or something. Hmm, that logic would apply doubly to the jib clew...

I used APS's instructions to make the shackle: http://youtu.be/5wpbZDSSe-E

I like APS's design better than the Colligo Marine Softie: http://youtu.be/jH66tGsWv_Y

I guess I felt making the eye opening adjustable by sliding the line through itself as in the Colligo didn't seem as easy to use as the APS...

Brian

 

[rardiH36]

rardi....... are you able to open and close your "soft shackle" easily? otherwise it is a "lashing". All the soft shackles I've seen employ a spool like piece to secure the corded loop.

Joe: You are right. I made the attachment with a loop of Amsteel. Gotta learn my terminology better prior posting in the future. The videos of soft shackle craft are good. Time to make a few "proper" ones for myself.

 

[thinwater]

Amsteel is certainly amazing stuff, but I also frequently see it mis-applied.

In the OP's case, the same thing could almost certainly have been done with 5/16" yacht braid, and with less concern about the knot slipping. Assuming that line is hand tensioned, the load will not excede 1000 pounds (except for jibes) and the shackle is not rated for more than 6000 pounds. 4 passes of yacht braid would get a breaking strength of over 12,000 pounds and 6 passes would fit. I'm willing to bet polyester would be as reliable, since something else will break first. Not a bad use, however, because of the chafe resistance. A spliced loop would be MUCH safer, as I would worry about the knot loosening; Amsteel is slippery stuff.

I see a lot of lashings in Amsteel that are far stronger than what they are attached to. Folks use 8 passes of 1/8" Amsteel to lash 3/16" Amsteel lifelines; 4 times overstrength... if the knot holds. The same lashing with polyester would have been as strong as the Amsteel and much stronger than the railing structure.

There are somethings it does very well, but it's a limitied set, particulalry on smaller boats where the loads are not so high. There are places where shock absorption or knotting ability is useful to cruisers where it is very bad.

I would say "Amsteel is a solution" not "Amsteel is the solution."

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Soft shackles? A neat application, but remember that the idea was invented hundreds of years ago and used with hemp.

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2011/02/soft-shackles-stropes-and-square.html

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Some things to ponder.

 

[rardiH36]

Thinwater:

Good perspectives on the load dynamics and using more traditional line types as an alternative to Amsteel.

A West Marine store is located not more than a five minute walk from my berth. I did think about "over-kill" as far as strength is concerned with Amsteel and gave thought for while to instead buying a short length of VPC which is a step up from standard yacht braids. I have been happy the abrasion and UV resistance of my VPC mainsheet halyard over the last 4-5 years. But at only $3 or so for two feet of 1/4" Amsteel to make the loop, I opted for the nice metallic look.

Yeah, lots of of force on a jibe. Particularly as the result of an accidental one. Last summer while on a broad reach in a fresh wind, a practicing America's Cup AC72 was looking to pass by somewhat close. Sensing a good photo opportunity, I set my auto-pilot and pulled out the camera. While getting the AC72 into my view finder, I sensed my boat's heading suddenly rotating. Before I could do anything other than beginning to reach for the mainsheet, the main became back winded and swung the full arc until the boom was abruptly stopped by the main sheet tackle. What happened is that although I engaged the lever at the wheel, I didn't reset the heading from a few minutes before. The auto-pilot assumed the previous course which passed the stern through the wind. Everything held fortunately. Except when I was motoring back to my berth, I noticed many delrin bearings scattered about. They came out of one of my mainsheet blocks. Most were cracked and shattered by the impact. The block was easily repaired with a pack of new bearings. It was a lucky day that nothing worse came of my mistake.

 

[CalebD]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

Yet another link on how to make soft shackles from Amsteel.
http://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4

I'm hoping to make a few this winter.

 

[thinwater]

...Yeah, lots of of force on a jibe. Particularly as the result of an accidental one. Last summer while on a broad reach in a fresh wind, a practicing America's Cup AC72 was looking to pass by somewhat close. Sensing a good photo opportunity, I set my auto-pilot and pulled out the camera. While getting the AC72 into my view finder, I sensed my boat's heading suddenly rotating. Before I could do anything other than beginning to reach for the mainsheet, the main became back winded and swung the full arc until the boom was abruptly stopped by the main sheet tackle. What happened is that although I engaged the lever at the wheel, I didn't reset the heading from a few minutes before. The auto-pilot assumed the previous course which passed the stern through the wind. Everything held fortunately. Except when I was motoring back to my berth, I noticed many delrin bearings scattered about. They came out of one of my mainsheet blocks. Most were cracked and shattered by the impact. The block was easily repaired with a pack of new bearings. It was a lucky day that nothing worse came of my mistake.

A few years ago I was given a length of spectra that I installed on a traveler, against my better judgment... but t looked good and I needed a replacement. Someone else had suggested climbing rope to give shock absorption.

Though I never did any damage, I can certainly tell the difference with zero stretch. Think how a nylon traveler line would have reduced the shock in your case. I can tell you that Spectra traveler line is a mistake.

 

[rardiH36]

Hi Thinwater:

My traveller thrawtship control lines are still a yacht braid type of line. Its only the connection between the block and the traveller that is now Amsteel. The previous mataterial doing this function was stainless steel as in a standard shackle. Amsteel can't be less flexible than that!

Rardi

 

[txtowman]

Re: Anyone Else Feel the Need To "Soft Shackle" with Amsteel

I make them and continuous loops and sell them. either leave the tails long or set the knot. I use a winch on my truck to set the knots.

 

[thinwater]

Hi Thinwater:

My traveller thrawtship control lines are still a yacht braid type of line. Its only the connection between the block and the traveller that is now Amsteel. The previous mataterial doing this function was stainless steel as in a standard shackle. Amsteel can't be less flexible than that!

Rardi

True enough.

The reason for my cautionary statement was to get people thinking.
* Soft shackles: good application.
* Sharp edges. Often years of steel shackle use have made a surface fiber unfreindly.
* Anywhere steel cable is normal, like lifelines (not jacklines) and halyards.
* Not travellers, not mainsheets (genoas are more flexible, no boom).
* NOT tethers or any mast climbing gear. Several mountain climbers died when spectra first came out, not understanding the need for give even in short tethers.
* Any line that could wind into the prop.

... and so forth.

What's that old saw about an irresistable force meeting an imovable object? Something breaks.

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As I think about useing Amsteel (cool stuff) I am surprised (on a 34-foot boat) how many most things are NOT Amsteel aps.