Anyone chartering own boat?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
It kills me that my boat sits idle in Florida, 1000 miles away. And the chances of getting down there are slim. So I am considering letting people use her. It's not about the money, I just want Ladylove out there. So what do you think? What are the issues? Is insurance one? Captain or bareboat? I have friends in Florida that would be great captains if they had the time. What precipitated this? I put my Highlander on the trailer yesterday. :cry:
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Insurance issue for sure

On my mooring and a lot of docks around here it would also be and issue doing a commercial deal
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
You Sail

Wow I thought you would be coming down and sailing her this winter.
Nick
 

Benny

.
Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Much higher insurance rates, additional maintenace needs and costs, merchant credit card account and fees, business license, a captain with at least a USCG "six pack" ,, advertising, bookeeping and providing working capital. Enough to scare the bejezuz out of me. Not to talk about the pitfalls of being an absente business owner.

Just come down and take her out yourself or have a trusted friend take her out once every three or four months. Don't forget to put him on the insurance policy as an occasional user.
 

John

.
Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
When I was looking into getting a boat partner, my original plan was to have them pay a monthly fee but not have any equity. I checked with the insurance and it turned out they would consider this chartering and the rates would have gone up by some ten-fold.

We have partners who paid what would have been the same amount as a security deposit to have some 3% equity in the boat. This left the insurance rates the same. My main hesitation was that any check from the insurance company would also be in their names and would require their counter signatures. I imagined all sorts of horror stories with them holding me to ransom for their signatures.

Then I figured - if I can't trust somebody to counter sign a check, I can't trust them on the boat in the first place. That's exactly how things worked out - they have been great boat partners, careful, leave the boat in great condition, appreciative, and when I had a major insurance claim (some $19,000) there was no proglem getting their signatures.

So, maybe rather than charter, you can find a boat partner on a similar basis. You can do all the background checking you like, by the way, but the main thing is your gut instinct.
 
Jul 24, 2006
628
Legnos, Starwind, Regal Mystic 30 cutter, 22 trailer sailor, bow rider NEW PORT RICHEY, FL
charter

Hi Ed, sorry to hear you are stuck up there. The weather is now perfect for sailing. Warm with a cool breeze around 15k. I've been working on the morgan for past 2 days, its slow going. But at least I'm not pouring sweat off of me.
I don't have any reccommendations regarding charter or sharring your boat. I personaly don't like using other people's stuff, especially a boat. There are too many things that can break, then I feel responsible and have to cough-up money to repair or replace it. It may have been at the end of its servicable life before I broke it.
You just need to find a way to get down here and sail her yourself. In the meantime, did you need me to check on it for you? Let me know. Patrick
 
Oct 26, 2009
1
Seaduced Hunter Anna Maria Island
Good Morning! Let me see what I can add to this subject. We own a powerboat rental company and we have a sailing division as well. We have about 5 boats that other own but put into our rental/charter service. Here are the key things that makes it work for us:

#1 We carry a $1 mm liability policy on anyone on any boat we rent or charter. If we own it or it's a "lease back", we stand as the first person to cover liability.
Due to good check out and being a bit picky, I can smile and say "we have had ZERO clams in 3 years.

#2 Our Lease Back customers have to have hull insurance with a commercial rider. Example... one of our sailboat had a policy that cost $1289 per year. When they added the additional coverage, it went up to $1592. Not as much as you would like due to the charter company picking up the liability.

#3 Any small damage and maintenance is on the charter company, us. Most of our damage charges are for lost items... anchor, dock lines and safety stuff. But we have seen some fiberglass damage. On our contract with bareboaters it says that they will pay $65 per inch for fiberglass damage. We have only had one case of that in the past. Good checkout and a larger depost is very helpful.

#4 Rules per boat. One of our boats is only available with a USCG licensed captain, another is only available if you have your ASA 101-104 stickers... one of the powerboat is only rented to people over 30.

#5 You will see wear and tear......... if your boat is used more it will show use. But may parts of any boat will last longer is used.

#6 Lease back. We are tiny in the shadow of Sunsail and the others but, we still pay 25-35% of the gross rental/charter fees to the owner. I know of 2 customers that would have had to sold thier boats if we were not helping with payments and storage by paying them lease back.

This is not for everyone!!! if you love your boat like a child.. this may not be for you. If you want all you personal stuff on the boat at all times... that can be tough. If a black mark from a shoe on the port side makes you have high blood presure... this is not for you.

But we love it... we help boat owners make some extra $$ and introduce sailing the Tampa Bay area to many boaters. Good luck!

Captain Buck
 
Feb 10, 2007
213
Hunter Legend 40.5 Coconut Grove, FL
Ed,
I had my boat on charter this year. Find a local charter company that has an older fleet, and find out if they will manage the boat for you. In my case the boat is on the Chesapeake Bay, The insurance co required an insurance Survey, and the cost of insurance in my case is only 200 more than the boat US insurance I had before. The deductible is higher, but it is the Deposit amount on the charter.
The charter co. has returning customers and they verify the customers ability to handle the boat. They take good care of the boat, in my case I do the maintenance required, unless I tell them otherwise. This year with 14 charter trips the boat only suffered 2 minor mishaps, and were repaired promptly and on the charterers money.

Good Luck..
 
Feb 10, 2007
213
Hunter Legend 40.5 Coconut Grove, FL
I get 60% of the charter, or 70% if I get the customers. Good Deal I think.
 
Jun 15, 2009
45
Catalina 387 Waterford Harbor, Kemah Texas
Chartering

We had our Hunter 33 in charter for about a year when we first got her, never again. Everytime we came to use the boat something was broken, missing, nicked, scraped, or just plain not right.
 
B

belcourt165

Boat swap

I would only charter my boat out if I REALLY needed the money. In that case I might just sell my boat.
We have started a boat exchange with another C350 owner. We are at Burnt Store Marina,Fl. and they are in Kingston Ont. giving us both a chance to sail in summer and winter in great sailing areas.
A story was written in Catalina's Mainsheet about this topic.
I have found though that more people would rather swap spouses than boats.
So far we only have the two couples interested in the boat swap.
It worked out great and have enlarged our circle of good friends.
No insurance problems we just signed them on to our policy as boat operators and extra cost. We also drew up a simple contract about responsibilities etc.
Hans Grasman
 
Oct 26, 2009
2
Benetau Oceanis 381 Newport, RI
Insurance for shared use

I have researched this topic extensively. Chartering would turn create a need for a commercial policy - far more expensive. I have one and user would would like to share and offset costs. Adding to the policy would require he have have an ownership interest in the vessel. Above, someone indicated 3% but I was led to believe that number had to be much more significant ~ 25%. I am told I can have anyone else use the boat as long as there is no written or verbal contract for compensation as an obligation to using it.

I'm very interested in getting more inputs.
 
Oct 26, 2009
2
Benetau Oceanis 381 Newport, RI
Hans, could you share the name of your insurance carrier?

As noted above, I have not found an insurer who will add an additional operator without them having an ownership interest in the boat.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
You guys are great! Thanks for all the helpful information. As money is not the issue and she is my baby then I guess I will just let friends use her. I have offered her to Patrick(above) and, of course, Tampa Ed. Also want to see my "crew" use her, that gang that I race with up here. One of them, Gary, was on the boat with me from Annapolis to Port Richey. He knows the boat as well as I.

Nick, I also thought I would be sailing this winter. It is not to be. I might find a four or five day window of time but two of those would be for travel. Just time enough to get down to Tarpon Springs for a pumpout. :)
 
P

patrickj

Key is to get a good quality charter company.

Good Morning! Let me see what I can add to this subject. We own a powerboat rental company and we have a sailing division as well. We have about 5 boats that other own but put into our rental/charter service. Here are the key things that makes it work for us:

#1 We carry a $1 mm liability policy on anyone on any boat we rent or charter. If we own it or it's a "lease back", we stand as the first person to cover liability.
Due to good check out and being a bit picky, I can smile and say "we have had ZERO clams in 3 years.

#2 Our Lease Back customers have to have hull insurance with a commercial rider. Example... one of our sailboat had a policy that cost $1289 per year. When they added the additional coverage, it went up to $1592. Not as much as you would like due to the charter company picking up the liability.

#3 Any small damage and maintenance is on the charter company, us. Most of our damage charges are for lost items... anchor, dock lines and safety stuff. But we have seen some fiberglass damage. On our contract with bareboaters it says that they will pay $65 per inch for fiberglass damage. We have only had one case of that in the past. Good checkout and a larger depost is very helpful.

#4 Rules per boat. One of our boats is only available with a USCG licensed captain, another is only available if you have your ASA 101-104 stickers... one of the powerboat is only rented to people over 30.

#5 You will see wear and tear......... if your boat is used more it will show use. But may parts of any boat will last longer is used.

#6 Lease back. We are tiny in the shadow of Sunsail and the others but, we still pay 25-35% of the gross rental/charter fees to the owner. I know of 2 customers that would have had to sold thier boats if we were not helping with payments and storage by paying them lease back.

This is not for everyone!!! if you love your boat like a child.. this may not be for you. If you want all you personal stuff on the boat at all times... that can be tough. If a black mark from a shoe on the port side makes you have high blood presure... this is not for you.

But we love it... we help boat owners make some extra $$ and introduce sailing the Tampa Bay area to many boaters. Good luck!

Captain Buck
This pretty much covers all of the issues. I have had my boat in the charter fleet for four years in the fleet mentioned by another poster on this thread and it really is a personal choice. The key is that to do it yourself as an absentee, it will be very difficult. The Find a reputable charter company with a fleet that you can visit to see the care given to the boats and who they let take the boat out. To me, the key is a discriminating fleet manager when allowing someone out on your boat and a manager that takes care of your boat like his or her own. That is not to much to ask because they will be making good money off your boat.
 
Feb 6, 2009
257
Hunter 40 Camano Island
Don't Charter - Or - I am not that fond of charter ownership

I come at this from the other side.
I have a friend with a 2008 Beneteau Moorings 35.2, and I have a hunter H40
In a tough economic year, all of the charter companies had to swing deals up here to get the customers to come in . In her case, the charter company lowered the charter costs to the customers by 30%, the net result was still fewer charters, and 80% were only 3 or 4 days instead of the usual 7 days, this resulted in a over a 50% decrease in charter income, while all the associated costs for each charter were kept the same to the owner, insurance, moorage, turnaround fees, diving the boat, inspections etc.....not to mention the fact that their (the charter company) quality of repairs is non-existant and unwarrantied. (charter company says they had a good year.....dollarwise)
in 18 months..... she put in over 22K of her money, on top of paying full cash money for the boat, just so other people had the privelege of driving her boat. We have a short charter season up here, And with this company, that boat would need to be out 85 days a year at full price to break even with the summer fees, let alone what happened last year. The owner is a senior woman who does not do her own maintenance, Guess who was charged for everything. If I had known that it took 80 dollars and 2 people to turn a boat around in a slip, I would have set up a business doing that up there.
Look at it this way, She can only use the boat a week or 2 in our short summer and still stand a chance of getting enough income for a season. IF she left it in charter for a full five years, there would be 5,000 on the engine, significant chips, cracks, blisters and interior wear and tear that the charter company doesn't feel is their responsibility, and she would have 5 summers of no long cruises...... A serious issue for a senior.
Lets call it what it really is......
If she had just bought the boat new, left it in the slip, and only used it when she wanted it, She would be about 15,000 ahead in the game, her boat would be in pristine shape, she would still enjoy boating, and her boat would have higher value when she wants to sell it.
IF charter ownership covered all the expenses and purchase financing of a boat, then anyone could do it. We all know better. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
If you think that Charter is going to pay for your boat, and you are going to just sit their and collect the cheques............ forget it.
The system is rigged for the charter company.
Look at it his way, his fees cover everything that has to be done to a boat, he gets paid first, he gets paid most, and you are the bloke that put that money iin his pocket financing a boat dream. He has no capital outlay, everything is run at expense, and he is at your boat and you are at his mercy 1000 miles away, where you cannot check the workmanship, competetively bid a repair, or compel repair to your standards.
IF this is what you want to do..... great. have at it.
But you could just sign a 6K-12K check every year to a charter company, not show up to use the boat and still be money ahead.
I am not telling anyone to not go enjoy their boat, But if you really need to keep the boat systems checked and working, making a friend and familiarizing them with your boat, and letting them go out and use it every month or two......is thousands of dollars cheaper and better in the long run.
JMHO (just my humble opinion) Maybe its because I still work for a living (and am searching for a job right now) that this system bothers me so much. I am very glad that I do not keep my H40 in Charter.
Don't get me wrong. I beleive that some charters and most partnerships are great methods to ease the cost of ownerships.
But dont fall for the "free lunch" make all your expenses mentality. (if it was that easy, people with a lot of money would be doing it all the time......and they are not.) And when all is said and done, there is a lot of use on your boat.. and it is in worse shape and worth much less..... is that really what you want.
fair winds.
|>
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Not what Ed wants.

To answer your last question, nope that is not what I want! Thanks for that perspective. Fortunately there are people on this board a lot smarter than me. No way would I have considered all of those negatives. Like my whole life, jump in and then ask "what was I thinking?".

But doesn't she llook forlorn sitting there all alone? Well at least she gets her belly rubbed once a month.
 

Attachments

G

gues

Boston B yoou are correct i8n that no

insurance company will give a person coverage if they don't have an ownership interest. What I believe they are talking about here is where the insured party noties the insurance company that there will be other persons authorized to use the boat under his coverage. These persons do not have none of the insured rights but the boat will be covered with any of these persons aboard as if it was the insured himself. We do it with BOATUS Insurance all the time. A commercial boat captain may not usually own a boat or be the insured party but he is named to be the operator with notification to the insurance ompany.
 
Apr 6, 2009
1
2 373 Panama City Beach
I am considering doing the same. My boat is in Panama City Beach and I feel she willl do better if it is used more than I am doing now.
The first person does have a Capt. ticket and I know him so it makes it easer for me.
Glenn
 
Status
Not open for further replies.