anyone able to send me details of how to wire sacrificial anodes to my Vega .

[btfag0s]

I have:
35 metres of 6mm chain and a 25lb CQR for my primary.
25lb CQR, 10metres chain and 50 metres rope for a kedge in extremis - only
used a handful of times in 20+ years.

The anchor type is really determined by your cruising grounds - rock, sand,
weed, clay, whatever. In any case the bigger the better, whether it be CQR,
Bruce, Danforth or whatever. It's sensible to have a different type of
anchor for the spare (but I don't, I know)

The advantage of all chain is that you don't swing around much when at
anchor. However, in a busy anchorage if everyone else is on a long rope it
may not be so good as you would be moving differently.

Re. the other thread, the only zinc I have is on my engine (Yanmar 1GM10 in
the raw water feed), though I don't use shore power.Alisdair

 

[wxt8981]

Hi Andi;
maybe there's a missunderstanding. I don't connect the ground to the zink mounting bolts. The hull is thick enough to use 4 screws; I use only one hole through the hull, (about center of the zink, there's enough room to make a connection)
About the anchors: I use 3 Danforth (don't know the weight right nnow, but they are heavy) Each anchor has an 8 foot chain, the rest rode.
During the Summer, here in Florida you can recon to go through a thunderstorm, hence I alway use 2 anchors, Bahama style, because the winnd will turn 180 degrees during the storm. I usually anchor in 10 to 15 feet water; I always dive down and give the anchor a good push to make sure the anchor is set.
For those living in metrics; 8' = 2.5m, 10' = 3m, and 15' = 4.5m .. about.
By the way- I just read the e-mail from Mr. Walsch- I also paint my anchors white- for the same reason.
Oh, you ask where to store the anchors? 1 on the bowsprit, and the other 2 in the board side locker.
Wilhelm, V-257
And to let you know- today the wind was about 15mph and I had the most wonderful sail- about 17 miles, and for a short time followed by porpoises.

Harold Anderson papasbackhoeinc@... wrote: Wilhelm

First thanks for all the help. As far as the zinc it would be mounted outside the keel but the wiring would be inside the keel inside the boat and the ground would connect to it the zincs mounting bolts. Also how many anchors do you carry and what are the weights, types, road lenght? Where are they kept? How much chain? I'm planning on two anchors but am at a loss as where to store them within easy access. Probably a danforth for daily use with a 100ft of rode and a plow with all chain for heavy weather. All comments are welcome as I am a novice and only know what I read. Experience is zilch for me but I plan on really using this boat. Thanks again. Andi

 

[wxt8981]

Hi Master Robert Vogel;
I lost your address, but I know you tried to contact me. I've been away for quite sone time (Thailand), but I'm back (until about July)
Please write me a few lines, I like to contact you at your address.
Wilhelm, V-257

WL wxt8981@... wrote: Hi Andi;
maybe there's a missunderstanding. I don't connect the ground to the zink mounting bolts. The hull is thick enough to use 4 screws; I use only one hole through the hull, (about center of the zink, there's enough room to make a connection)
About the anchors: I use 3 Danforth (don't know the weight right nnow, but they are heavy) Each anchor has an 8 foot chain, the rest rode.
During the Summer, here in Florida you can recon to go through a thunderstorm, hence I alway use 2 anchors, Bahama style, because the winnd will turn 180 degrees during the storm. I usually anchor in 10 to 15 feet water; I always dive down and give the anchor a good push to make sure the anchor is set.
For those living in metrics; 8' = 2.5m, 10' = 3m, and 15' = 4.5m .. about.
By the way- I just read the e-mail from Mr. Walsch- I also paint my anchors white- for the same reason.
Oh, you ask where to store the anchors? 1 on the bowsprit, and the other 2 in the board side locker.
Wilhelm, V-257
And to let you know- today the wind was about 15mph and I had the most wonderful sail- about 17 miles, and for a short time followed by porpoises.

Harold Anderson papasbackhoeinc@... wrote: Wilhelm

First thanks for all the help. As far as the zinc it would be mounted outside the keel but the wiring would be inside the keel inside the boat and the ground would connect to it the zincs mounting bolts. Also how many anchors do you carry and what are the weights, types, road lenght? Where are they kept? How much chain? I'm planning on two anchors but am at a loss as where to store them within easy access. Probably a danforth for daily use with a 100ft of rode and a plow with all chain for heavy weather. All comments are welcome as I am a novice and only know what I read. Experience is zilch for me but I plan on really using this boat. Thanks again. Andi

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Thank you for the info. Being a novice I am sure that I am overdoing alot of stuff. We sail in Texas with a trip to the Carribean planned next year. Sure appreciate your input. Andi

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Thank you for your help. I am learning a little more everyday. Andi

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Peter,

Thank you for your input. I am sure more is better than less with anchors. Andi

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Thank you for your info. The problem with the electrical is that I use shore power and am trying to find out the best place to ground the boat. I have no engine or motor mounts. Andi

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Wilhelm,

OK bare with me. The zinc connects to the hull with screws. The only bolt that comes thru the hull is for the ground connection. Correct? Sorry for the miscomunication. I have never seen one so I thought that the holes shown by the catalog were mounting holes. So am I correct in that I ground the incomming power box/AC ground wire to the zinc? It sounds so wonderful in Florida. My wife and I will come down the ICW to Florida next year. Would like to thank you in person. Andi

 

[vegatern]

The Tern carries a 25 lb CQR mounted on a bow roller, 60 ft of
chain and 150ft of line for the main anchor. Anchoring here in 20ft or
so. The boat originally had 100 ft of chain and line in the bow chain
locker but I thought that was a bit of weight up there so I built a
locker/bulkhead in the bilge and moved that chain there. The boat
stiffened up some immediately. On the pushpit hangs a 15 lb Danforth
on about 150 ft of line, no chain, for use as a kedge, though
thankfully I've yet to need it. I like the idea of painting the
anchor white. I shall do that. The West Marine catalog has an
article re-anchors and their tests claim that a new one, called a
"Ronca", holds better than the rest.
Those puddles near the stern cleats we filled in with mat and resin,
but I suppose that is only an option if you plan to paint the deck.

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Thanks for the info. Seems like everyone has there own anchor and rode preferences. The info was exactly what I needed. I will take some of the many ideas given and be happy and safe. Thank you. White anchors to all! Andi

 

[wxt8981]

Andi
one of these days we'll get it right: The four screws are only to fasten the zink to the hull. At the inside of the zink (zinc/hull) there is plenty of room to connect the (heavy) wire to the zink. NO bolt goes throu the hull- only the heavy wire.
And I guess it's ok to connect that (heavy) wire to the AC ground. (In my case- I have an inboard- the wire is connected to the engine.)
If you ever come to Miami, let me know; we can go for a sail!
(I may be away from July to October- but let me know anyway.
Wilhelm, V-257

Harold Anderson papasbackhoeinc@... wrote: Wilhelm,

OK bare with me. The zinc connects to the hull with screws. The only bolt that comes thru the hull is for the ground connection. Correct? Sorry for the miscomunication. I have never seen one so I thought that the holes shown by the catalog were mounting holes. So am I correct in that I ground the incomming power box/AC ground wire to the zinc? It sounds so wonderful in Florida. My wife and I will come down the ICW to Florida next year. Would like to thank you in person. Andi

 

[SVFlyAway]

A question for all who carry chain. Everyone gives the footage, but not the
size. I assume for a small boat like the Vega that most are using 1/4
(would that be 6 or 7mm in metric???). If ¼ is used, what are folks using
for shackles? There isnt much clearance, unless one pays to have the chain
company put an oversized link on each end.

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of pjacobs55
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 9:04 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: anchors carried

Andi,
Another note on anchors from a very experienced Vega sailor, Tony
Skidmore, who sailed the Vega \'Lorna Doone\' around the world (1994 to
1996).
He carried three 7.5 kg Bruce anchors combined with 200\' of BBB chain,
and states they were " .... perfectly matched to the Vega and good for
mud, sand, coral, or rock."

Peter
#1331 \'Sin Tacha\'

 

[papasbackhoeinc]

Wilhelm,

We are living proof that persistence pays off. I cannot thank you enough for sticking with me. When I get to Miami you must come sailing on our boat so you can show me all the stuff I've messed up on! Take care Andi

 

[btfag0s]

Is there any need to do any drilling into or through the hull? The anode
could be fibreglassed into position just under the stern, and the wire could
be fed through the now unused exhaust port. IF a new hole was required it
could still be above water level.

Alisdair

 

[wxt8981]

It sure could be done like you write, though even the exhaust port is under water then and now; besides, there would be quite a long wire. I prefer a short as possible connection: should you ever been hit by lightning, you'll agree.
Wilhelm, V-257

Alisdair Gurney yahoo@... wrote:
Is there any need to do any drilling into or through the hull? The anode
could be fibreglassed into position just under the stern, and the wire could
be fed through the now unused exhaust port. IF a new hole was required it
could still be above water level.

Alisdair

 

[txsailcouple]

Whenever a ground wire is run, especially for the purpose of lightning protection, it should always be run as short as possible avoiding turns and sharp bends as much as possible. A surge from a lightning strike encountering a 90 degree bend is just as likely to spark off in a different direction than to bend with the wire to find your common ground point.

John
Southern Comfort Too
Kemah/Clear Lake, (Houston) Texas

 

[rogerefairest]

I have a 3/8 100 ft chain and a 25 pound CQR, it is
over size, but the only time we needed it (so far) it
was great to "know" that I was not able to get a
beefier set for Ocean Sunrise, however I am now
looking for a 35 pound, not yet sure on the type, just
want something that can hold on to rock and kelp,
without going into a fishermans one.

The shackle, well that is the weakest link, it is the
same size and have not had the opportunity of finding
a bigger shackle, so I do change it at regular
intervals

 

[albinvega1493]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I am reading a lot of
misinformation on this site about sacrificial anodes. The idea I am
getting is that it is better to be safe than sorry, so wire the thru-
hulls all together in a daisy chain and protect them all.

I have done a lot of reading about sacrificial anodes, and it is my
understanding that any stand-alone bronze fittings do not need to be
wired together and connected to an anode. In fact many experts
recommend that stand-alone fittings be left exactly that, isolated
from any ground on the boat.

I quote John C. Payne in his book "Understanding boat Corrosion,
Lightning Protection and Interference" p. 11

"In reality, most modern fiberglass vessels don't need very much
protection. The general rule of bonding all electrically isolated
metal thru-hull fittings interconnected in a daisy-chain
arrangement, to keep then at the same potential, is flawed. It
probably causes far more harm than good. This may be at variance
with some recommendations. If all the underwater items are of the
same material, that is bronze, and are electrically isolated by
hoses that are rubber or PVC, there is no reason to protect them.
If there are no dissimilar metals there can be no corrosion cell
formation. If you bond everything and then connect into other
systems, you create a situation where outside influences, such as
stray current, can cause problems. Remember: you protect only those
items that are close to other items underwater of dissimilar metal.
This is usually in the stern, and covers propeller shafts, brackets,
rudder hangings, etc."

Probably the most dangerous item that can be damaged by galvanic
corrosion is the stern tube, due to the material it is made of
(bronze) and its proximity to the prop shaft (usually stainless).
You corrode a prop and it may even fall off, but the boat doesn't
sink. A stern tube corroding away could theoretically result in the
boat sinking. I wired my stern tube and bronze rudder fittings to
an anode just to the left of the stern tube fitting. The anode
showed significant loss of material after only 3 months in a slip.
(I was slipped right next to a live aboard using shore power 24/7).
The prop shaft anode collar also showed significant loss of
material. However, the anode I connected to the rudder heel
(electrically isolated from the rest of the fittings) showed zero
material loss. This supports the logic of Payne in his book.

In a 35+ year old boat, if the through hulls were never wired
together and they are still solid, I don't see any reason to do so
now. Prop, stern tubes etc. are another matter.

Larry Bissell
"Kemanalea"
Hull 1493
SF Bay Area

 

[wxt8981]

Well written! I have my Vega over 30 years and besides the zinks nothing ever corroded (galvanic action). There is one thing that kills boats: cheep battery chargers! If you're in a marina, ask the captain next (and next) to you what kind of battery charger he or she has. A good 75% of chargers sold as marine chargers are not really fit for boats- in goes AC, and out comes AC AND DC- and that will kill your boat! I've been told many times by boat owners that they're using a "good" charger. But when we checkt, out came AC and DC.
I rather get a boat owner angry at me than that charger damages my boat!
Wilhelm, V-257

Larry Bissell albinvega1493@... wrote: I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I am reading a lot of
misinformation on this site about sacrificial anodes. The idea I am
getting is that it is better to be safe than sorry, so wire the thru-
hulls all together in a daisy chain and protect them all.

I have done a lot of reading about sacrificial anodes, and it is my
understanding that any stand-alone bronze fittings do not need to be
wired together and connected to an anode. In fact many experts
recommend that stand-alone fittings be left exactly that, isolated
from any ground on the boat.

I quote John C. Payne in his book "Understanding boat Corrosion,
Lightning Protection and Interference" p. 11

"In reality, most modern fiberglass vessels don't need very much
protection. The general rule of bonding all electrically isolated
metal thru-hull fittings interconnected in a daisy-chain
arrangement, to keep then at the same potential, is flawed. It
probably causes far more harm than good. This may be at variance
with some recommendations. If all the underwater items are of the
same material, that is bronze, and are electrically isolated by
hoses that are rubber or PVC, there is no reason to protect them.
If there are no dissimilar metals there can be no corrosion cell
formation. If you bond everything and then connect into other
systems, you create a situation where outside influences, such as
stray current, can cause problems. Remember: you protect only those
items that are close to other items underwater of dissimilar metal.
This is usually in the stern, and covers propeller shafts, brackets,
rudder hangings, etc."

Probably the most dangerous item that can be damaged by galvanic
corrosion is the stern tube, due to the material it is made of
(bronze) and its proximity to the prop shaft (usually stainless).
You corrode a prop and it may even fall off, but the boat doesn't
sink. A stern tube corroding away could theoretically result in the
boat sinking. I wired my stern tube and bronze rudder fittings to
an anode just to the left of the stern tube fitting. The anode
showed significant loss of material after only 3 months in a slip.
(I was slipped right next to a live aboard using shore power 24/7).
The prop shaft anode collar also showed significant loss of
material. However, the anode I connected to the rudder heel
(electrically isolated from the rest of the fittings) showed zero
material loss. This supports the logic of Payne in his book.

In a 35+ year old boat, if the through hulls were never wired
together and they are still solid, I don't see any reason to do so
now. Prop, stern tubes etc. are another matter.

Larry Bissell
"Kemanalea"
Hull 1493
SF Bay Area

 

[pelagicasd]

HI Larry, Very interesting. I've been meaning to wire the thruhulls for years and have just not qotten around to it. Never really had a problem with them so I guess I'll scratch that off the to do list. We lost zincs at a rather high rate while cruising so I can't blame the neighbors chargers. I wonder about our solar panel charging system since it is tied in to the boats ground. We used a lighting protection system that tied the mast to a copper plate below the water line. That is showing some corrosion damage also. Mast head also has an ion dissapator on it. We did talk with someone who said their friends had one and the boat got struck anyway. Thoughts on same would be appreciated. WaltTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: wxt8981@...: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:55:08 -0700Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: anyone able to send me details of how to wire sacrificial anodes to my Vega .

Well written! I have my Vega over 30 years and besides the zinks nothing ever corroded (galvanic action). There is one thing that kills boats: cheep battery chargers! If you're in a marina, ask the captain next (and next) to you what kind of battery charger he or she has. A good 75% of chargers sold as marine chargers are not really fit for boats- in goes AC, and out comes AC AND DC- and that will kill your boat! I've been told many times by boat owners that they're using a "good" charger. But when we checkt, out came AC and DC.I rather get a boat owner angry at me than that charger damages my boat!Wilhelm, V-257Larry Bissell albinvega1493@... wrote: I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I am reading a lot of misinformation on this site about sacrificial anodes. The idea I am getting is that it is better to be safe than sorry, so wire the thru-hulls all together in a daisy chain and protect them all.I have done a lot of reading about sacrificial anodes, and it is my understanding that any stand-alone bronze fittings do not need to be wired together and connected to an anode. In fact many experts recommend that stand-alone fittings be left exactly that, isolated from any ground on the boat. I quote John C. Payne in his book "Understanding boat Corrosion, Lightning Protection and Interference" p. 11 "In reality, most modern fiberglass vessels don't need very much protection. The general rule of bonding all electrically isolated metal thru-hull fittings interconnected in a daisy-chain arrangement, to keep then at the same potential, is flawed. It probably causes far more harm than good. This may be at variance with some recommendations. If all the underwater items are of the same material, that is bronze, and are electrically isolated by hoses that are rubber or PVC, there is no reason to protect them. If there are no dissimilar metals there can be no corrosion cell formation. If you bond everything and then connect into other systems, you create a situation where outside influences, such as stray current, can cause problems. Remember: you protect only those items that are close to other items underwater of dissimilar metal. This is usually in the stern, and covers propeller shafts, brackets, rudder hangings, etc."Probably the most dangerous item that can be damaged by galvanic corrosion is the stern tube, due to the material it is made of (bronze) and its proximity to the prop shaft (usually stainless). You corrode a prop and it may even fall off, but the boat doesn't sink. A stern tube corroding away could theoretically result in the boat sinking. I wired my stern tube and bronze rudder fittings to an anode just to the left of the stern tube fitting. The anode showed significant loss of material after only 3 months in a slip. (I was slipped right next to a live aboard using shore power 24/7). The prop shaft anode collar also showed significant loss of material. However, the anode I connected to the rudder heel (electrically isolated from the rest of the fittings) showed zero material loss. This supports the logic of Payne in his book.In a 35+ year old boat, if the through hulls were never wired together and they are still solid, I don't see any reason to do so now. Prop, stern tubes etc. are another matter.Larry Bissell"Kemanalea"Hull 1493SF Bay Area