My new mainsail is a fully battened loose footed beauty. It has a small internal line for adjusting the foot. Also the leechline has two jam cleats for the single leechline. One is mounted at the bottom of the leech and the other is about 3 feet above the first at about the reefing clew. The manufacture is Ullman I think both of these adjustments can greatly shape the lower 10% of the sail. Any tips will be greatly appreciated. Ray.
Any tips on using a loose footed mainsail?
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loose foot
full length battens have much more effect on sail shape than partials(which basically keep the leech from collapsing)... so make sure you know how to adjust them. Tighter equals more draft, looser equals flatter. If they are too tight you'll have trouble in light air popping them over when you tack. Too loose and the outhaul will be useless in that same light air. If you have a problem with all this, try installing an "inhaul" on the outhaul. You may have problems raising and lowering with so many full length battens, some folks have converted to batten cars. Outhaul controls draft depth in lower third of sail. Outhaul adjustments are same as shelf foot. Your new sail will be drastically different that an attached foot sail with no shelf. The loose foot makes adjustments more visible and dramatic that attached foot.
full length battens have much more effect on sail shape than partials(which basically keep the leech from collapsing)... so make sure you know how to adjust them. Tighter equals more draft, looser equals flatter. If they are too tight you'll have trouble in light air popping them over when you tack. Too loose and the outhaul will be useless in that same light air. If you have a problem with all this, try installing an "inhaul" on the outhaul. You may have problems raising and lowering with so many full length battens, some folks have converted to batten cars. Outhaul controls draft depth in lower third of sail. Outhaul adjustments are same as shelf foot. Your new sail will be drastically different that an attached foot sail with no shelf. The loose foot makes adjustments more visible and dramatic that attached foot.
additional comment, or two...
First... the second leech line cleat is there so you can adjust it when reefed. Second........ What's with this error message.... spam guard BS...
First... the second leech line cleat is there so you can adjust it when reefed. Second........ What's with this error message.... spam guard BS...
Batten cars?
Hate to break in on a thread, but Joe's comment about batten cars got my attention. I have full battons and do have a little problem raising the sail solo. Biggest problem is catching on the lines from the lazy jack system.
Hate to break in on a thread, but Joe's comment about batten cars got my attention. I have full battons and do have a little problem raising the sail solo. Biggest problem is catching on the lines from the lazy jack system.
Batten Tension
I have also bought a new loose footed main, that I haven't received yet, and am curious about Joe's mention of Batten Tension. I won't be racing the boat so I'd like to find a nice "all around" tension for cruising. Are there any rules or guide lines?
I have also bought a new loose footed main, that I haven't received yet, and am curious about Joe's mention of Batten Tension. I won't be racing the boat so I'd like to find a nice "all around" tension for cruising. Are there any rules or guide lines?
Lazy jacks
I always tie up the lazy jack to the mast before raising the sail. Less chafing. I only use lazy jack when dropping the main. The sail tie can be looped in such a way that you just pull on the tail and they all come off at once.
I always tie up the lazy jack to the mast before raising the sail. Less chafing. I only use lazy jack when dropping the main. The sail tie can be looped in such a way that you just pull on the tail and they all come off at once.
Ken
Don has pointed out innumerable times that there is no such thing as 'racing sail trim'. There is ONLY right and wrong sail trim. Racers pay more attention to proper sail trim and are therefore considered by some to be 'anal' or 'radical'. What Joe is pointing out about batten tension is correct. Full battens induce sail shape into the main. This induced shape may or may not be the correct shape for any given sailing conditions. For example,too tight in light air will produce far too much drag. Mainsail batten tension is adjustable just like halyard tension, sheet, vang, cunningham, outhaul, leach. You can choose to 'set it and forget it' and hope you have it right or you can 'dial it in' to the correct settings for the conditions. Admittedly it takes a little more time to make all the needed adjustments and some sailors choose not to do so. In these circumstances they have to live with less than optimal sail shape. Each adjustment in turn affects the others so the net overall affect on sail shape and therefore boat performance can be dramatic.
Don has pointed out innumerable times that there is no such thing as 'racing sail trim'. There is ONLY right and wrong sail trim. Racers pay more attention to proper sail trim and are therefore considered by some to be 'anal' or 'radical'. What Joe is pointing out about batten tension is correct. Full battens induce sail shape into the main. This induced shape may or may not be the correct shape for any given sailing conditions. For example,too tight in light air will produce far too much drag. Mainsail batten tension is adjustable just like halyard tension, sheet, vang, cunningham, outhaul, leach. You can choose to 'set it and forget it' and hope you have it right or you can 'dial it in' to the correct settings for the conditions. Admittedly it takes a little more time to make all the needed adjustments and some sailors choose not to do so. In these circumstances they have to live with less than optimal sail shape. Each adjustment in turn affects the others so the net overall affect on sail shape and therefore boat performance can be dramatic.
Right Mind, Right Trim
Alan I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you go out every time in non-static conditions and set multiple continuously variable controls in real-time to within some epsilon precision of perfection, like some sailing god? Or are you admitting that your sail trim is wrong almost all the time? Maybe "right" sail trim involves more than making the boat go the fastest speed possible at every moment. I don't get the impression that Don is quite as militant as you on that score. Perhaps ones reason for sailing is a part of the "given sailing conditions". Just a thought. Oh, by the way, do you adjust your batten tension periodically while out sailing?
Alan I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you go out every time in non-static conditions and set multiple continuously variable controls in real-time to within some epsilon precision of perfection, like some sailing god? Or are you admitting that your sail trim is wrong almost all the time? Maybe "right" sail trim involves more than making the boat go the fastest speed possible at every moment. I don't get the impression that Don is quite as militant as you on that score. Perhaps ones reason for sailing is a part of the "given sailing conditions". Just a thought. Oh, by the way, do you adjust your batten tension periodically while out sailing?
Thank you, Thank you, for all the help.
I understand the raising problems, as our 38 had full battens and even with "batcars" it was sometimes difficult. On my mast, with all the work we've done to smooth the slug tract out, I had no problems raising the old sail which was fully batteened. With the "batcars" the battens slid into the car itself and had a small bolt that held the forward end of the batten into the car. This eliminated the tacking problem but prevented adjusting the batten tension. Thus my next delemma. On the new sail all the batten slide into the car assembly, but there is about 1 inch of space at the leech end of the batten pockets. My thoughts were to "pin or bolt" the batten into the new cars. This eliminates the tacking problem but also eliminated batten tension. I have installed all the controls, lines and blocks to be able to adjust all the features of both my old and new sails. For my use I think that foregoing batten tension for the ability to tack is my best trade off as I single hand most of the time. Thanks again everyone for the help. Ray
I understand the raising problems, as our 38 had full battens and even with "batcars" it was sometimes difficult. On my mast, with all the work we've done to smooth the slug tract out, I had no problems raising the old sail which was fully batteened. With the "batcars" the battens slid into the car itself and had a small bolt that held the forward end of the batten into the car. This eliminated the tacking problem but prevented adjusting the batten tension. Thus my next delemma. On the new sail all the batten slide into the car assembly, but there is about 1 inch of space at the leech end of the batten pockets. My thoughts were to "pin or bolt" the batten into the new cars. This eliminates the tacking problem but also eliminated batten tension. I have installed all the controls, lines and blocks to be able to adjust all the features of both my old and new sails. For my use I think that foregoing batten tension for the ability to tack is my best trade off as I single hand most of the time. Thanks again everyone for the help. Ray
Batten comments...
...For an extreme view of the full length batten issue, consider my experience with them on my Nacra 5.2, which I campaigned about 10-15 years ago. Cats have full length battens because the main's huge roach needs the support. Without the battens the leech would flap and flay all over the place no matter how hard you sheeted. I might mention that cats have no backstays so there is no problem with the sail hanging up when tacking. Mast bend is primarily induced by a highly purchased cunningham (16:1) Almost all catamaran mains are loose footed with a batten in the foot. Because batten tension is such an intregal part of trimming cat sails it can limit outhaul adjustments. We always adjusted batten tension on the beach before a race depending on expected conditions. Standard procedure was to tip the boat over on it's side with the sail hoisted and walk along the leech sail adusting tension to get that perfect shape. The battens are tapered so the front bends more than the back. This allows the draft to change while keeping the leech flat. The batten caps on my boat that allowed me to cleat them to small diameter control lines attached to the pockets. There were other quick adjust systems, also, and they made setting the tension as simple as adjusting the leech line. The battens stuck a few inches outside the pockets so many sailors had marks on their battens to help with settings. Cat racers are very anal about stuff like this... because this type of racing is all about speed. Tactics are important, mind you, but speed is everything in catamaran racing. That said... I'm thinking none of you are up for that kind of work, nor is it necessary. The non-tapered, fiberglass battens that come with most sails are more forgiving than the sensitive, foam filled types I used on Nacra.
...For an extreme view of the full length batten issue, consider my experience with them on my Nacra 5.2, which I campaigned about 10-15 years ago. Cats have full length battens because the main's huge roach needs the support. Without the battens the leech would flap and flay all over the place no matter how hard you sheeted. I might mention that cats have no backstays so there is no problem with the sail hanging up when tacking. Mast bend is primarily induced by a highly purchased cunningham (16:1) Almost all catamaran mains are loose footed with a batten in the foot. Because batten tension is such an intregal part of trimming cat sails it can limit outhaul adjustments. We always adjusted batten tension on the beach before a race depending on expected conditions. Standard procedure was to tip the boat over on it's side with the sail hoisted and walk along the leech sail adusting tension to get that perfect shape. The battens are tapered so the front bends more than the back. This allows the draft to change while keeping the leech flat. The batten caps on my boat that allowed me to cleat them to small diameter control lines attached to the pockets. There were other quick adjust systems, also, and they made setting the tension as simple as adjusting the leech line. The battens stuck a few inches outside the pockets so many sailors had marks on their battens to help with settings. Cat racers are very anal about stuff like this... because this type of racing is all about speed. Tactics are important, mind you, but speed is everything in catamaran racing. That said... I'm thinking none of you are up for that kind of work, nor is it necessary. The non-tapered, fiberglass battens that come with most sails are more forgiving than the sensitive, foam filled types I used on Nacra.
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