Any Suggestions-- PO's Plumbing modification.

[gpd955]

Was flushing out the water heater yesterday and got a little confused about the plumbing configuration that the PO had set up. When I bought the boat, he showed me most of the modifications (except for this one) and they were all done to make life easier when at the dock, winterizing or cleaning the systems out.

This modification is a piece of hose between the cold water inlet and the hot water outlet hoses and the hose has a valve in the middle. I'm not sure if this is normal or something that was added but it is not in the Seaward manual.

My assumption is that it allows you to shut off the incoming cold water just before it enters the heater and use the pressure pump to empty the water heater tank without running the pump dry. Am I wrong about this? Can anyone tell me what this may be for if I am so I can use it properly?

 

[Allan12210]

That looks like a classic bypass that we would use in a clean water system where the component (in your case, the hot water heater) could be isolated and removed from the system without shutting off the rest of the process. In normal operation that crossover valve would be closed and the valves on the hot and cold water sides would be open. If you ever wanted to drain or remove the hot water heater, then you close the in and out valves and open the crossover. That way you could still use water from your storage tanks (albiet cold) and service your heater.

Allan

 

[gpd955]

That makes sense. It also explains why I was getting only warm water yesterday since I had it open and i was probably getting a mix of hot and cold.

Thanks!

 

[Alec]

Water Heater Bypass

Was flushing out the water heater yesterday and got a little confused about the plumbing configuration that the PO had set up. When I bought the boat, he showed me most of the modifications (except for this one) and they were all done to make life easier when at the dock, winterizing or cleaning the systems out.

This modification is a piece of hose between the cold water inlet and the hot water outlet hoses and the hose has a valve in the middle. I'm not sure if this is normal or something that was added but it is not in the Seaward manual.

My assumption is that it allows you to shut off the incoming cold water just before it enters the heater and use the pressure pump to empty the water heater tank without running the pump dry. Am I wrong about this? Can anyone tell me what this may be for if I am so I can use it properly?

The valves allow you to take the water heater out of the pressure system when winterizing. You can then pump pink antifreeze through the system without having to fill up the water heater with the stuff. The water heater can then be simply drained. Saves a bunch of antifreeze.

 

[jsalley]

That setup also makes it much easier to winterize your fresh water system without putting antifreeze in the hot water heater, which is hard to flush out. In the winter, isolate the tank as Allan described, drain it completely, and then pump antifreeze through the rest of the system. In spring, flush out the system with fresh water before you reopen the HWH. Works great, and gives much better tasting water.

 

[gpd955]

That setup also makes it much easier to winterize your fresh water system without putting antifreeze in the hot water heater, which is hard to flush out.

Yeah! It's still coming out pink! After an entire 40 gal tank of fresh water! I think I will just drain the rest out!!

 

[rpwillia]

Here is another way

Camco has a kit with a small valve, a check valve and a tee. Your set up is not bad, the PO did you a favor.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=e6LETcjwEOHL0QHp9oykCA&ved=0CFkQ8wIwBQ#

 

[gpd955]

Actually he did a lot. The head has a y-valve so I can choose fresh or raw water for flushing. There's a city water hookup, the water heater valves you saw, the raw water intake and fresh water tank have inline connections for winterizing and cleaning and the fridge can be drained using the shower sump by switching a y-valve. The only thing I don't like that I probably will replace is the bilge pump which I believe is too small. He also labeled every valve, seacock and thru-hull along and he labeled every hose that goes out of sight with it's purpose and direction of flow as well as the direction to move the handle of all the seacocks so no one tries to force them closed in the wrong direction. Not to mention the darn thing was immaculate and came with so many extra items and spare parts. His obsessiveness (especially in the area pf plumbing) really benefitted me!

 

[Old Skool Neil]

One comment Jack,

I'd forget that city water inlet. Unless it has some sort of reliable automatic safety shutoff in the event of hose or fitting failure on board, it's a sure recipe to sink a boat.

The boat next to me when I first came into the marina had one of those and I never saw the guy for like a year and a half. Clearly the boat wasn't being maintained and knowing we were tied to the same finger dock, I made my request to the marina office for a relocation.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

One comment Jack,
I'd forget that city water inlet. Unless it has some sort of reliable automatic safety shutoff in the event of hose or fitting failure on board, it's a sure recipe to sink a boat.
The boat next to me when I first came into the marina had one of those and I never saw the guy for like a year and a half. Clearly the boat wasn't being maintained and knowing we were tied to the same finger dock, I made my request to the marina office for a relocation.

What would prevent him from turning off the water to his own boat at the faucet on the dock when he leaves and/or turns in for the night? And what prevented you from disconnecting the hose to your absent dockmate's boat from the faucet on the dock?

 

[gpd955]

I really never planned on using it but that is a great point. I will keep in mind though that if I use it in it's current state, I will only do it if we were on board and actively using water, shutting it off from the faucet when not in use. In his defense, he specifically told me when he was going over the boat that he made the connection on the end of a hose that just gets placed outside of the locker so when it is connected, the connection is never inside the boat. When not in use, it gets stowed in the locker. In my original picture, it's that fitting and valve just hanging there in the foreground.

Luckily my tank is in great shape and the water tastes normal when coming out!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Uh oh...

Actually he did a lot. The head has a y-valve so I can choose fresh or raw water for flushing.

...you need to undo that. No toilet that's designed to use raw water should ever be connected to the onboard fresh water system, 'cuz it cannot be done without risk of contaminating the potable water supply, damage to the toilet or both...and EVERY toilet mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions (not that anyone ever bothers to read 'em). ONLY toilets that are designed by the mfr to use pressurized flush water can safely be connected to the fresh water plumbing.

However, there is a way to safely supply fresh water to the toilet to rinse it out: reroute the head intake line to tee it into the head sink drain line just before the thru-hull. Flush with sea water when using the toilet...then last thing before the boat will sit, after you've closed all the seacocks, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink rinsing out the WHOLE system--intake line, pump channel in the rim of the bowl and the discharge line.

 

[gpd955]

The two never meet. It's set up so what we have to do is turn a y-valve at the head sink drain then fill the sink with water. Lifting The flush pedal drains the sink and then pushing it flushes the toilet. Once complete, the y-valve gets put back to the sink drain position. There's no connection between the tank or any hoses that go to the tank.

Is that a problem?

 

[gpd955]

Peggie, after I sent my last reply, I then read your whole message. I guess it's ok the way I have it??

 

[Stu Jackson]

Jack, doesn't that mean you have to fill the sink every time you need to flush the head? If so, it's a horrible waste of fresh water. Re-read Peggie's suggestion. It's different than what you describe.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

What would prevent him from turning off the water to his own boat at the faucet on the dock when he leaves and/or turns in for the night?

Nothing, but that would mean I need to rely on the owner to do the right thing or remember to do the right thing. I'll admit there's been more than once I've made a U-turn to go back to my boat to confirm I remembered to close all the thru-hulls, turn off all non-essential power or whatever.

And what prevented you from disconnecting the hose to your absent dockmate's boat from the faucet on the dock?

I'm not in the habit of messing with other people's boats just as I would hope (expect) they would respect mine. I would adjust dock lines if their boat is riding against the dock but that's about it. I'd secure a sail flailing in the wind too (done that).

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You're ok then...

Peggie, after I sent my last reply, I then read your whole message. I guess it's ok the way I have it??[/quote

From your description of the way the toilet works--lift the pedal, step on the pedal, your toilet can only be a Sealand toilet that actually IS designed to be connected to the fresh water system to use pressurized flush water...either a VacuFlush or a Traveler gravity toilet. Apparently the PO either didn't know how it's supposed to be plumbed, or didn't want to use fresh water except to rinse it out... Because it is designed to use pressurized flush water, it didn't have an intake pump originally, it has--or did originally--a solenoid valve. So he had to install a remote intake pump for it to use sea water and it has to have a discharge pump added somewhere unless it sits directly above the tank.

So just what the heck IS your toilet and how DOES it bring in sea water and discharge the flush? Photos of the whole system would be good.

 

[gpd955]

your toilet can only be a Sealand toilet that actually IS designed to be connected to the fresh water system to use pressurized flush water...
So just what the heck IS your toilet and how DOES it bring in sea water and discharge the flush? Photos of the whole system would be good.

It's a Wilcox-Crittenden. It has the reversing pump that takes in rinse water when you lift the pedal then flushes it when you step on it. It is not plumbed to bring in sea water. I will take photos this weekend. I actually planned on bringing my camera and taking pics of every system, piece of equipment, seacock, etc. for a reference file since I constantly say to myself, "I wish I had a picture of that."!

 

[gpd955]

Jack, doesn't that mean you have to fill the sink every time you need to flush the head?

Yes. It only needs a little bit of water and most of the time, unless it's raining, cold or it's a 7 year old, we use the marina head.

 

[MitchM]

re: fresh water flush of the head: in some waters it is good to have a fresh water flush as that minimizes the awful smell of the clean water that has all sorts of weird algae growing in it from the sea or lake.

that being said, on my own boat i rigged up a 5 gallon gravity - feed fresh water flush for the head, filled from the dock garden hose weekly, that worked perfectly.it was NOT tied into the freshwater tank system

re: CityWater: a good reason to not hook your boat's fresh water system in to a 'city inlet' is that often 'city water' is higher pressure than the fittings in an old boat will handle. high city water 40 to 80 psi will blow a fitting off inside your boat and you will know this when the boat starts to sink at the dock. this is what happened to my neighbor's 40 footer at a strange dock in canada.. fortunately the owner figured out that the high citywater pressure had blown apart the fitting inside the hull, and the boat was filling with citywater.. they only saved the boat because they w ere standing around gabbing to people at the dock as their boat bilge highwater alarm screeched away...