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Any ideas on boat type and keel

AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Hi. I have a 16 ft (approx) trailer sailer that i presumed was made in Australia that i am trying to refurb. Most of it is fairly good except for the swing down keels. They are fibre glass coated iron that has badly rusted. It looks like the keels pivot on a shaft that also connects the keels. I think the shaft is also spring loaded as when I jack the keels up to a retracted position they drop down with a lot more force than their weight alone. I cannot see how to remove the keels, it is like the boat was fibreglassed around the pivot shaft. Does anyone recognise the make of boat or how the keels were fitted. I hate to scrap the boat due to the keels.
Regards Alan.
I have more pics if tequired.
 

Attachments

Nov 23, 2018
38
Vandestadt & McGruer Ltd. Siren 17 Choctawhatchee Bay
Maybe post some photos of the interior where the pivot bolt is? I've read many posts where owners have refurbished the keel housing with good results. And there are no other identifying marks on the boat? What does the title say?
 

AlanCa

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Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Hi. No title on the boat. Internally there is no access at all to the shaft. I added a couple of pics where the shaft is covered by a fibreglass tunnel. There is no access at either end of the tunnel. Its like the shaft was installed and then the brown cover was fibreglassed in place. Regards Alan
 

Attachments

Nov 23, 2018
38
Vandestadt & McGruer Ltd. Siren 17 Choctawhatchee Bay
What does it look like on either side of the keel housings (where the arrows are pointing)? I wonder if the support pin could be removed from either side?

This is a clever design, other than not being able to drop the keels for maintenance. The dual housings free up the cabin floor. And I assume there are two winches for raising and lowering the keels?
 

Attachments

May 24, 2004
6,194
CC 30 South Florida
This dual keels are probably of Brittish design intended for places with large tide fluctuations so the boats can sit in the bottom when the tide recedes. Hence the spring loaded drop to keep them extended. In the past I have had good experience making inquires in some of the Brittish sailing forums. You may also look for some Australian forums.
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,694
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
Nice little boat. Don't give up on it. The is almost always a way. I'm assuming the pin traverses the sole in that hump. I don't think the hump is the boat bottom - the builder wouldn't weaken the bottom in that area of high stress by thinning the hull. So maybe there's an opportunity to cut away the fiberglass over the hump and expose the shaft. You could section the shaft to get it out being careful to support the boards from underneath. Why do you need two boards with iron in a 16' boat? You may have to cut the centerboard trunks to get new boards in with a new axle if that's what you want. But all of these things can be repaired.
I would consider foil shaped wooden boards with a lead inlay to encourage them to stay down when sailing. Don't worry about the boat "Taking the ground" as the English say. A 16 foot boat can sit happily on its bottom if necessary. The double board arrangement is probably to make the centerboard trucks cabin furniture instead of one board taking up the center. They are dubious as a sail advantage so maybe you might want them to operate separately and thus eliminate the need for the axle. It might be fun to play with lowering one on one tack and the other on the other tack. Maybe lower both a small amount going downwind.
Even if you could expose the ends of the axle you would not be able to remove it without sectioning it.
Just food for thought.
 

AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
What does it look like on either side of the keel housings (where the arrows are pointing)? I wonder if the support pin could be removed from either side?

This is a clever design, other than not being able to drop the keels for maintenance. The dual housings free up the cabin floor. And I assume there are two winches for raising and lowering the keels?

Hi. No visible access from either side. Smooth gel coated fibreglass. The keels move in tandem, there is only one winch which connects by a system of pulleys to raise the keels. I think there is a spring around the shaft which is tensioned when the keels are raised.
 

AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Nice little boat. Don't give up on it. The is almost always a way. I'm assuming the pin traverses the sole in that hump. I don't think the hump is the boat bottom - the builder wouldn't weaken the bottom in that area of high stress by thinning the hull. So maybe there's an opportunity to cut away the fiberglass over the hump and expose the shaft. You could section the shaft to get it out being careful to support the boards from underneath. Why do you need two boards with iron in a 16' boat? You may have to cut the centerboard trunks to get new boards in with a new axle if that's what you want. But all of these things can be repaired.
I would consider foil shaped wooden boards with a lead inlay to encourage them to stay down when sailing. Don't worry about the boat "Taking the ground" as the English say. A 16 foot boat can sit happily on its bottom if necessary. The double board arrangement is probably to make the centerboard trucks cabin furniture instead of one board taking up the center. They are dubious as a sail advantage so maybe you might want them to operate separately and thus eliminate the need for the axle. It might be fun to play with lowering one on one tack and the other on the other tack. Maybe lower both a small amount going downwind.
Even if you could expose the ends of the axle you would not be able to remove it without sectioning it.
Just food for thought.

Hi. Thanks. Gives me a few things to think about. I will probably cut the hump open and Have a look. The connecting shaft would be giving a lot more side rigidity than individual sort shafts. I might look at keeping the long shaft but uncouple the keels so they can act individually.
Correct, the hump is not the bottom of the boat.
 
Nov 23, 2018
38
Vandestadt & McGruer Ltd. Siren 17 Choctawhatchee Bay
If the keels are under tension (most likely from a torsion bar), be careful opening up the hump. The recoil could injure you or the boat...
 
Jun 8, 2004
7,991
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Benny’s assumption due to dual swing keels is a British design. The suggestion to inquire with British forums is suggested as this is more toward American made boats. I as a former dealer do not recognize this boat.
There is no question that the top of the swing keel needs to be removed and repaired. Getting it out is the question.
As for the keels, generally on the British designs were pulled up via cable or line but cannot be sure. Who knows it could be spring loaded but not sure that is the case. The picture of damaged keel does show an eyelet on the backside of the keel as if something like a line would be attached to.
It would be helpful to take pictures of the inside of keel housing to see if there are any holes in the upper part of the housing for lines or cable to go thru. second a photo of the interior cabin looking aft would be appreciated along with a photo of exterior cockpit.
Generally American made boat keels are attached in several ways. First a pin running through the head of the keel held in place attached to hull with bolts screwed into metal encased in the hull for example Catalina 22 and 25. Sometimes the line comes up thru a fiberglass tube which is above the waterline. Secondly, the keel could be held in place in a bracket keel bracket housing like the water ballast Hunters bolted within the cabin but removed under the hull. Third, I have seen swing keels held in place via bolt through the keel housing above waterline with neoprene washers to prevent water coming into cabin. Once I saw bubble gum used instead of the appropriate neophrene washer.

Can you take a couple of photos under the cabin floor to actually see what’s there? Do you think repairs to hull were made on bottom of hull adjacent to keel housing area? Maybe a picture or two looking toward stern and one toward bow?
 

AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Hi. Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated. I took more pics and i will make multiple posts with them.
Each keel is attached to the pictured item by a pin through a hole approx six inches above the hole in the keel visible in the earlier pics. The round rod sits above the keel and penetrates the hull forward of the keel through the gland plate. This rod is attached to a sytem of pulleys and cables in the boat that can pull the rods forward to raise the keels. Release the tension on the cables and the keels lower either from their weight or ???.
 

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AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Also sitting above the keels are these items pictured. They connect via a pin through the visible hole in the keel as seen in an earlier pic.
I think they provide extra pressure to help lower the keel for the first part of the travel. They never lower below the bottom of the boat.
 

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AlanCa

.
Apr 3, 2020
8
Not sure 16 Shed
Red arrow is the hull penetration location. Green arrow is where the keels pivot. I tend to think the mechanism was installed then the floor was fibreglassed over it. The floor is the mustard colored parts. Other pic is acces to the hull penetration gland.
 

Attachments

Jun 8, 2004
7,991
-na -NA Anywhere USA
It would appear the keels were winched up in the inside the boat looking where the lines would have come thru into the boat which the tool pictured gave a hint. As to keel attachment, I cannot tell from the information at this point as it would be critical to remove and repair that one swing keel. Also assuming you do not have the hardware would be costly to replace.

At this point I would suggest you wait till you get more information from other sources about the keel attachment. Then consider the expense and time to repair as it may cost more to repair than what the boat is worth
 
Jan 1, 2006
4,694
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
I don't understand the hardware so I can't say anything about that.
What interests me is the design of the 2 keels. The english boats which were made to take the ground had twin fin keels which canted out a bit for stability on the ground. These do not cant and therefore I question their use for that purpose. And they are too short in the stem to bow direction to support the hull and be stabile, and the principal of putting the entire weight of the hull on basically the bar that goes across the cabin sole is dubious at best.
I think the designer thought that the keels were a sailing attribute. So maybe I'd re-assemble whatever you can, take it down to launch ramp and see how it sails. If it's fun, then I'd think about the repair.
Dave is absolutely correct. It isn't worth the time and expense. But if you have fun doing it then why not?