Hi; Last weekend My Barlow 16 winch broke, I see no dust on the base. I already found a new one on ebay, same one !!!. Do anyone know what could cause this ? or is symple an age thing. I was fixing the sail outhoul when this happens. Thanks
Any Idea- How this Happen??
- Thread starter jrpla
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Metal fatigue and shock load??
I'd inspect the other one for hairline cracks and probably replace it before it fails too. A poor casting run or a bad day at the mfg could have produced a substandard run. Just a thought. Hope no one was hurt when it failed. Michael
I'd inspect the other one for hairline cracks and probably replace it before it fails too. A poor casting run or a bad day at the mfg could have produced a substandard run. Just a thought. Hope no one was hurt when it failed. Michael
Is your old Barlow .... composed of plastic AND metal?
Is that base 'plastic'????? Many Barlows had various plastic components: plastic bases, plastic drum 'extensions', etc. On such 'composite' Barlows the plastic has simply embrittled ... the life of the winch is 'over'. When first looking at or inspecting 'any' Barlow winch, the FIRST thing to do is look down into the winch handle socket hole and see if there is a large screw cap. If NO slotted head screw or NO hex cap in that socket hole, then the Barlow is the infamous 'spring loaded' push-button release drum retainer ..... and the best thing to do is take it off and RUN to a trash can with it. If your winch is the 'spring loaded' drum retainer type, what happens is that the spring that holds the drum onto the spindle eventually looses its elasticity and cant adequately hold the drum to the spindle when the winch is 'cranked up' with a lot of stress. If the tail end of the rope or the rope that comes off the winch is at an angle higher than the horizontal (to the winch) the drum can catastrophically release off the spindle ... many cases have been reported that when the drum releases it will spin like a gyro and travel back along the tailed rope .... and violently smash into the operator. I have 8 stitches in an eyebrow to prove my point from a 'drum releasing' large Barlow. Sorry IMHO most Barlow winches are not very well made and probably should be replaced in most cases. I'd certainly never ever go up a mast being held by a Barlow winch. Those 'push button' drum release Barlows are especially a disaster waiting to happen. Barlows are simply ...... 'dangerous' IMHO.
Is that base 'plastic'????? Many Barlows had various plastic components: plastic bases, plastic drum 'extensions', etc. On such 'composite' Barlows the plastic has simply embrittled ... the life of the winch is 'over'. When first looking at or inspecting 'any' Barlow winch, the FIRST thing to do is look down into the winch handle socket hole and see if there is a large screw cap. If NO slotted head screw or NO hex cap in that socket hole, then the Barlow is the infamous 'spring loaded' push-button release drum retainer ..... and the best thing to do is take it off and RUN to a trash can with it. If your winch is the 'spring loaded' drum retainer type, what happens is that the spring that holds the drum onto the spindle eventually looses its elasticity and cant adequately hold the drum to the spindle when the winch is 'cranked up' with a lot of stress. If the tail end of the rope or the rope that comes off the winch is at an angle higher than the horizontal (to the winch) the drum can catastrophically release off the spindle ... many cases have been reported that when the drum releases it will spin like a gyro and travel back along the tailed rope .... and violently smash into the operator. I have 8 stitches in an eyebrow to prove my point from a 'drum releasing' large Barlow. Sorry IMHO most Barlow winches are not very well made and probably should be replaced in most cases. I'd certainly never ever go up a mast being held by a Barlow winch. Those 'push button' drum release Barlows are especially a disaster waiting to happen. Barlows are simply ...... 'dangerous' IMHO.
Gave up
When I got my '83 23' I wanted to retain the Barlow's, but the port was jammed tight and I ended up breaking it to try and free it up. I did get the starboard one apart but couldn't get it to lock back together. Lewmar # 7's fit perfectly without drilling new holes and can actually be maintained!
When I got my '83 23' I wanted to retain the Barlow's, but the port was jammed tight and I ended up breaking it to try and free it up. I did get the starboard one apart but couldn't get it to lock back together. Lewmar # 7's fit perfectly without drilling new holes and can actually be maintained!
Gimme bronze ......
Stainless isnt a good metal on a boat .... too vulnerable to fatigue, intergranular corrosion, needs a constant supply of oxygen, etc. etc. etc. Only advantage is its cheaper than a decent true bronze (which you cant afford anymore). Maybe the newer duplex stainless steel will be be better .... but Im not going be one of the first to use it. We originally thought 300 series stainless was a wonder metal .... and time proved us quite wrong.
Stainless isnt a good metal on a boat .... too vulnerable to fatigue, intergranular corrosion, needs a constant supply of oxygen, etc. etc. etc. Only advantage is its cheaper than a decent true bronze (which you cant afford anymore). Maybe the newer duplex stainless steel will be be better .... but Im not going be one of the first to use it. We originally thought 300 series stainless was a wonder metal .... and time proved us quite wrong.
Is (was) that an aluminum base?
It looks like aluminum but I didn't think anyone made one. I have seen many aluminum drums but never an aluminum base. If is aluminum, it could explain the failure. It would be lower strength to start with and then much more susceptible to corrosion from salt water. Any casting defects would add to the problem. A little side story: Once upon a time (1968 I think), Merriman Bros., who were at that time the single largest manufacturer of marine hardware in the country, who were also deeply involved in manufacturing sintered metal products, bought some new coining presses for their sintered metal line. They didn't have enough work for them, so they asked me to design a small, one speed, size 0, top action/snubbing winch with a base made of sintered metal. I was at the time their Marine Products Engineer and a registered Professional Structural Engineer. Sintered metal, if you don't know, has no definable yield, and I balked at the idea (it eventually cost me my job). Well they got a young engineer who worked for me to do it over my objections. It had a Cycolac (plastic) Drum, with a metal base and pawl gear that was inserted in the plastic, made from the sintered metal. They had a big advertising campaign that said "who would buy a plastic winch? Someone who would buy a plastic boat!" The distributers and dealers were cold about the idea but reluctantly bought into it. Merriman made over 10,000 of those winches, and within a year all the ones that had been sold broke, either in the plastic or in the base, just like the one in the picture. They recalled the product, lost a bundle, and ended up selling the marine product line to Holbrook. The motto of the story? Well, insert your own. Happy sailing Joe S
It looks like aluminum but I didn't think anyone made one. I have seen many aluminum drums but never an aluminum base. If is aluminum, it could explain the failure. It would be lower strength to start with and then much more susceptible to corrosion from salt water. Any casting defects would add to the problem. A little side story: Once upon a time (1968 I think), Merriman Bros., who were at that time the single largest manufacturer of marine hardware in the country, who were also deeply involved in manufacturing sintered metal products, bought some new coining presses for their sintered metal line. They didn't have enough work for them, so they asked me to design a small, one speed, size 0, top action/snubbing winch with a base made of sintered metal. I was at the time their Marine Products Engineer and a registered Professional Structural Engineer. Sintered metal, if you don't know, has no definable yield, and I balked at the idea (it eventually cost me my job). Well they got a young engineer who worked for me to do it over my objections. It had a Cycolac (plastic) Drum, with a metal base and pawl gear that was inserted in the plastic, made from the sintered metal. They had a big advertising campaign that said "who would buy a plastic winch? Someone who would buy a plastic boat!" The distributers and dealers were cold about the idea but reluctantly bought into it. Merriman made over 10,000 of those winches, and within a year all the ones that had been sold broke, either in the plastic or in the base, just like the one in the picture. They recalled the product, lost a bundle, and ended up selling the marine product line to Holbrook. The motto of the story? Well, insert your own. Happy sailing Joe S
thanks
Hi, Thanks you all I already order the same Barlow 16 that I found it on ebay for a good price, I only use this winch for the reef line, cunningham, and outhaul. I will inspect my Genoa sheets winches, which are Barlow too. At least I have a good lewmar for tha main. My boat is 1983 so I suppose have to be age related too. Another thing I am going to too today is change the outhaul line, I think is to big for the winch. Thanks..
Hi, Thanks you all I already order the same Barlow 16 that I found it on ebay for a good price, I only use this winch for the reef line, cunningham, and outhaul. I will inspect my Genoa sheets winches, which are Barlow too. At least I have a good lewmar for tha main. My boat is 1983 so I suppose have to be age related too. Another thing I am going to too today is change the outhaul line, I think is to big for the winch. Thanks..
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