Any comments on this near miss??

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George B., s/v Freya

Technology Rocks!

That AIS is WAY COOL! Identifies contacts, lays down tracks and calculates collision probabilities! I wonder if it comes with an option for calling in air support? Gotta figure out how to get me one. Here in San Francisco Bay, we expect at least one ship crossing per day so we may be a little blasé when it comes to encountering big ships. amusing thread might be “how close have you ever come to a moving ship? (1,000 tons or greater). I can’t help thinking how different the outcome would have been if the skipper only knew how to correctly measure his jib. No confusion about what size, and he would have had enough power to avoid the situation in the first place. IMHO, the sailboat skipper (and many of the responders to this thread) has a very ego centric view of the world. “The tanker should have yielded to a small sailboat, the tanker skipper is either drunk or an idiot, or why didn’t they call me back on the VHF.” The world really doesn’t revolve around us yachtsmen. Nobody is going to spend a grand in fuel oil to “dodge” an obstinate yachtie. Not like those behemoths can turn on a dime either. Common sense would dictate that the sailboat ought not to place himself in the situation in the first place. I doubt that a Maylay tanker crew could even hear our little Freon horns from their bridge. My old boat had a load hailer speaker mounted at the spreaders and even a full volume it wouldn’t have enough output to reach up into a pilot house. In regards to the radio, what do think are the chances that a Maylay tanker plying Asian waters has anybody in the pilothouse proficient enough in English to understand that radio transmission? One thing that I’m not clear on is the ETA for the tanker was a couple of days away from Port Dickson. Am I understanding this correctly that the s/v Valhalla was pretty far in to the Malacca Straits? Not much in the way of Nav Aides out there but it is also curious that M/T Ocean Courage (SP), M/T Lady Fatime and an Unkwn contact were all moving into this particular piece of water. Perhaps there’s a buoy that is not marked on the e-chart. I believe that I read somewhere that these straits are the most heavily traveled in the world. Must be boat soup. I’m not defending this guy but, if you have a chance, click over to his website. It’s pretty interesting. He has been cruising the SW Pacific since 1988 and has been hanging out in Malaysia for a couple of years.
 
Jul 17, 2005
586
Hunter 37.5 Bainbridge Island - West of Seattle
I don't care who has the right of way.....

I get out of there asap. You can have all the right of way, but if the other boat ignores it, you crash. Who is going to worry about a little sailboat in the middle of the ocean? I don't play chicken with anyone when there is no chance for me to win. Even when I can win, I still don't. Yeah, I know the COLREGS, the right of way, the stand on vessel, etc.... But the most important one is to be safe and get away from possible danger. Protect my vessel and crew. BTW,did you know it takes a good 5 miles for a big tanker to stop? Not very easy for them to turn either.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,648
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
FWIW

There is no "Right of way". Seems that if we can get that out of everyones thought process there would be far fewer collisions or near misses. Even if you are in a channel under sail dragging fishing nets while mine sweeping and are hit by a PWC if there was somthing you could have done to avoid the the collision and you did not do it you share in the responsibility for the collision.
 
Jun 7, 2004
334
Coronado 35 Lake Grapevine, TX
Right of Way

When I took a captain's class, that's one of the things the instructor tried to drill into us. I still slip up and use the term though. When two vessels are approaching each other, neither has "right of way". BOTH have certain things they're required to do. Rick's exactly right. I went back and looked at the web site link again. Seems to me, if you draw a straight line for the smaller boat's course, had he maintained his course and speed as the stand on vessel (as he's supposed to do); and the tanker had made a turn to starboard (as he did), there would have been no near miss. Don't know why he never answered on the radio, but my suspicion is that the slow to maneuver tanker made his appropriate turn, both to get in the channel and to avoid the sailboat, and then wondered what in the world the small boat skipper was doing wandering all over the place.
 
B

Bill Ogilvie

Sailboat was the Give-way vessel

Rule 18 for International waters section (d) states: (d) (i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstance of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals of Rule 28.
 
Aug 26, 2005
101
Oday 27 Corpus Christi
Oops, my mistake

I confused my balls with my cone pointing down (it's not the first time). Sorry Capt Jim
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Re: Rule 18

"Rule 18 for International waters section (d) states: (d) (i) Any vessel ... shall, if the circumstance of the case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft, exhibiting the signals of Rule 28." We don't know if rule 18 applies. I'll give the gadget geek some credit. I'll assume that if the tanker had been exhibiting constrained by draft signals, the yacht skipper would have noted them and acted accordingly. Anyone know (without looking it up), what the Rule 28 signal is? :D I think it's 3 vertical white lights at night and a vertical white cylinder in daylight, but I'm not sure.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,648
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Quick on the Trigger There Bill?

How do you figure the Tanker was constrained? I have never been anywhere near the Malacca Straits so I have no idea about depth current or anything else. From my perspective it matters not who was stand on or who was burdened the guy was foolish to allow himself to get that close to a boat that big. The idea that a large ship could intentionally run down a way more maneuverable vessel is ludicrous it would be akin to a semi running down a motorcycle in a parking lot.
 

DaveP

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Jun 2, 2004
29
Macgregor 26D Rogersville on the Tenn Tom Waterway
Chicken on the high seas

You can argue fuss an pitch a fit about it but you dont play chicken with a larger boat especially a freighter or tanker, you will not win. Common sence should play a big role here. I for one dont play chicken ill run everytime a situatation like that arrises
 
V

Viktor

So why exactly you had right of way?

Also if tanker did not respond, you supposed to use blowhorn.
 
V

Viktor

well the guy was cleary busy making screenshots.

While the tanker aproached him.
 
K

Kevin

Viktor,

Do you mean, "While he was maneuvering around in front of the tanker, trying to confuse the hell out of him."?
 

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Lets play chicken,I dare ya

If this guy ever shows up in New York Harbor or Chesapeake Bay he would get run over with that attitude of being the privleged vessel, in New York there are cameras all over the place that record all the traffic in the harbor for situations just like this and after they clean up the mess. Lets go to the video and see who did what! cause his AIS system with all that info will be at the bottom
 
Jun 25, 2004
601
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
An interesting question...

...to me, anyway, is: just how big does a ship/boat have to be before you automatically give way? I must admit that on the Chesapeake, I have never had any doubts about other vessels automatically falling into one of 2 classes: 1) huge: we obviously stay far away from their projected course, and do everything necessary to avoid them. 2) sort of small, like us, in which case the power boats are usually going so fast that we are essentially stationary objects. But in any case, this is the situation where you try to pay careful attention to the rules of the road, at least unless you can make an early choice to avoid the other boat, before collision even becomes an issue. But there has to be some middle ground, at which you would wonder "is that vessel large enough that I should take all measures to avoid it?". I just can't recall ever seeing a boat of this size. What do you think? Jay
 

BobW

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Jul 21, 2005
456
Hunter 31 San Pedro, Ca
DaveP, you have the right idea...

but I'll take it one step further and say that 'size doesn't matter' *yks I nearly got run down by a 45 foot sailboat 'Funtastic' in the MIDDLE of the Santa Barbara Channel because a teenager was at her wheel and obviously had NO idea of the rules of the 'road'. I was on starboard tack and was the stand-on boat, so I 'stood-on' my course. I watched and waited, from when that boat was over a mile away, for SOME indication that she even SAW me.... nothing. At the last minute, while the 'father-skipper' was scrambling out of the cabin, I tacked.... and kept my mouth shut, cause anything I said would have been held against me ;D Now, if I can't discern some 'intelligent action' (something like intelligent design) on the part of the other boat or ship that I have identified as a potential collision partner, I make a CLEAR MOVE away from the anticipated collision point. I'm not a col-reg expert, but doesn't it call for all skippers to do just that? And does it specify a maximum or minimum distance for either boat to take avoidance measures? I thought not.... so I just do it further away than most.... and have fewer gray hairs.... well, not really :) More wine, wench!!! Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
 
B

Bill Ogilvie

Re: Rule 18

The daytime signal for a vessel constrained by her draft is a black cylinder. At night it's three red lights in a vertical line. I remembered that from the USMA OUPV & 100 Ton Master's course I completed this month. The skipper of the sailboat may not have seen the black cylinder, due to visibility conditions or because his eyes were glued to his AIS display. But it's safe to assume a 1,000+ Ton freighter in an international shipping channel is constrained by it's draft and therefore is always the Stand-on vessel when a power boat is nearby (except when the freighter is overtaking). Rule 9 "Narrow Channels" has no ambiguity. 9 (b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate within a narrow channel or fairway When a commercial boat appears to be trying to run a pleasure boat the operator of the commercial boat is usually screaming RULE 9 on Channel 13. To me it looks like the sailboat skipper: a) Doesn't know anything about international navigation rules. b) Believed he was the Stand-on vessel because the freighter was entering the channel on his Port side. But it was really a head-on encounter because the freighter was not crossing the channel. The sailboat skipper should have kept to the Starboard side of the channel (Rule 14). Even if it could be argued that the sailboat was the Stand-on vessel, Rule 17 says to avoid altering course to Port for a vessel on the Port side. So for all his fancy electronics and fun adventures the sailboat skipper should get a copy of Navigation Rules (COLREGS) and read it.
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Re: Rule 18 and 28

Durn ... I knew I shouldn't have opened my big mouth. 3 vertical RED lights ... :( Rule 28 states that the constrained by draft signals *may be* displayed. As opposed to other rules that use *shall be*. I interpret this as Rule 28 signals being optional. Any opinions?
 
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GeorgeB., s/v Freya

Big Dogs

According to the AIS read-out (man, that unit really rocks) the tanker was about 450 feet LOA by 80 feet beam. Displacement wise probably was 40,000 – 50,000 tons. A thousand tons will get you a tug and a barge.
 
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