I am looking for any web sights of persons in this or other 40-50 foot recently built (within the last 5 years) Hunters that are sailing around the world, or doing extensive off shore cruising. I am trying to decide if this is the right company for me to put all my eggs in when choosing a circumnavigation vessel. Any info would be greatly appreciated and can be sent to me at forpryingcompanies@hotmail.com. Thank you very much!
- Status
Vincent, a large Hunter is NOT what you need!
At least not right now. Although there may not exactly be herds of circumnavigators jostling to get back in touch with you, there are a lot of knowledgeable and friendly sailors here who will go out of their way to answer your questions once you figure out what it is exactly that you want to ask. Best of luck! Flying Dutchman
At least not right now. Although there may not exactly be herds of circumnavigators jostling to get back in touch with you, there are a lot of knowledgeable and friendly sailors here who will go out of their way to answer your questions once you figure out what it is exactly that you want to ask. Best of luck! Flying Dutchman
460? Funny you should ask...
A fellow by the name of Mike Harker was attempting such a trick on a 460 named "Wanderlust." Unfortunately, his rudder fell off back in December. This happened close on the heels of a 1999 450 losing its rudder offshore during the 2003 Atlantic Rally for Cruisers. The link below, from the Hunter Marine website, contains some information about that event.
A fellow by the name of Mike Harker was attempting such a trick on a 460 named "Wanderlust." Unfortunately, his rudder fell off back in December. This happened close on the heels of a 1999 450 losing its rudder offshore during the 2003 Atlantic Rally for Cruisers. The link below, from the Hunter Marine website, contains some information about that event.
Geez John, . . . .
guess we won't be hearing from Vincent again!
But for balanced reporting should we not post the URLs for all the other stories of non-Hunters lost at sea?
guess we won't be hearing from Vincent again!
But for balanced reporting should we not post the URLs for all the other stories of non-Hunters lost at sea?You'll Still Hear From Me!
OK, settle down boys! I was trying to gage ANY Hunter for this type of adventure. Are there any, or is the word I hear in Miami, "Hunters are just for puttering around the Bahamas and Caribbean" the straight dope? Thanks for any and all replies!
OK, settle down boys! I was trying to gage ANY Hunter for this type of adventure. Are there any, or is the word I hear in Miami, "Hunters are just for puttering around the Bahamas and Caribbean" the straight dope? Thanks for any and all replies!
Vincent, as Henk suggested if you could be ...
a bit more specific with your questions. There are several Hunters of assorted sizes that have been or are blue water cruising. The consensus that I have found from these owners is that most all of the medium to big boats make good blue water cruisers. They will take more from the seas than the skippers can handle. Terry
a bit more specific with your questions. There are several Hunters of assorted sizes that have been or are blue water cruising. The consensus that I have found from these owners is that most all of the medium to big boats make good blue water cruisers. They will take more from the seas than the skippers can handle. Terry
Vincent, I apoligize. . .
for my lame attempt at humor. But I was serious that there are a lot of non-Hunters that have had life-threatening failures at sea. I love my 1979 Hunter as well as the new ones. I have sailed the H466 in moderate conditions at 8+ knots. I just spent nine days on the new Henderson designs(H41, 36, and 33) at the boat show. They all remain coastal cruisers IMHO. Will they go around the Horn? Sure, if you get lucky. But if you had a choice while in the cabin for 48 hours with bare poles and a sea anchor in 50 foot seas you would want a boat built for those conditions.
for my lame attempt at humor. But I was serious that there are a lot of non-Hunters that have had life-threatening failures at sea. I love my 1979 Hunter as well as the new ones. I have sailed the H466 in moderate conditions at 8+ knots. I just spent nine days on the new Henderson designs(H41, 36, and 33) at the boat show. They all remain coastal cruisers IMHO. Will they go around the Horn? Sure, if you get lucky. But if you had a choice while in the cabin for 48 hours with bare poles and a sea anchor in 50 foot seas you would want a boat built for those conditions.
Any boat can go blue water
There are several Hunters which have gone off shore. About a year ago on another web site, someone wrote about taking his Hunter 31 across the "pond" to someplace in the Mediterranean and has done this twice. There is a Hunter 410 who has been sailing the south seas for three years and the word that I was given was that he has not yet been in a major storm. When his weather forcast system spots a storm he goes the other way. There is a Hunter 35.5 out of British Columbia that has raced in the Victoria to Hawaii race twice. And there are a number of Hunters that have gone to Alaska and back. That may not be considered blue water by some however. And I know of one Hunter that has gone around Vancouver Island--would that be considered blue water? I've been sailing a long time and I get a kick out of those that say you have to have a certain type and construction of boat to go blue water sailing. Then I think of Thor Hyderdahl and his reed boat, Kon-Tiki which drifted across the Pacific.
There are several Hunters which have gone off shore. About a year ago on another web site, someone wrote about taking his Hunter 31 across the "pond" to someplace in the Mediterranean and has done this twice. There is a Hunter 410 who has been sailing the south seas for three years and the word that I was given was that he has not yet been in a major storm. When his weather forcast system spots a storm he goes the other way. There is a Hunter 35.5 out of British Columbia that has raced in the Victoria to Hawaii race twice. And there are a number of Hunters that have gone to Alaska and back. That may not be considered blue water by some however. And I know of one Hunter that has gone around Vancouver Island--would that be considered blue water? I've been sailing a long time and I get a kick out of those that say you have to have a certain type and construction of boat to go blue water sailing. Then I think of Thor Hyderdahl and his reed boat, Kon-Tiki which drifted across the Pacific.
Les, I'm with you.
We spent 3 days in the Pacific while GPS was reporting 50 foot seas. We were on my H34 bound for San Fransisco. Blue water? No wave even slapped the transom. When you are doing 9 knots under only a reefed Genoa, modern boats can do that. But if we turned to close haul? I wouldn't have wanted to try. Off Oregon, the wind clocked so we ducked into Coos Bay. It took all day to 'duck' because we were following 126 degrees Lon. That puts you 60 miles off the coast. Our buddy boat friend chose to stay out and try to keep moving. Three days later, after we returned from a trip into town, we found him tied up next to us. He stayed out with their Tayana 37 but couldn't make seaway. They looked real tired.
We spent 3 days in the Pacific while GPS was reporting 50 foot seas. We were on my H34 bound for San Fransisco. Blue water? No wave even slapped the transom. When you are doing 9 knots under only a reefed Genoa, modern boats can do that. But if we turned to close haul? I wouldn't have wanted to try. Off Oregon, the wind clocked so we ducked into Coos Bay. It took all day to 'duck' because we were following 126 degrees Lon. That puts you 60 miles off the coast. Our buddy boat friend chose to stay out and try to keep moving. Three days later, after we returned from a trip into town, we found him tied up next to us. He stayed out with their Tayana 37 but couldn't make seaway. They looked real tired.
Proven Performer
I pulled this from the 11/14/97 post of Eau-de-Vie, a Passage 450, which was circumnavigating and easily handled 60-knot winds and 20-foot seas. Actual performance and results carry more weight than random opinions. The log of the entire journey is somewhere on this site but here's my favorite - Since we left Newport for Bermuda some ten days ago we have told the story of the crew of the Eau-de-Vie, and the things we have encountered along the way. But now it is time to spare some thought for the boat - without which none of us woud be here, and without whose sterling performance we may not have been in such good shape when we arrived in St Georges in the early hours of that Sunday morning a few days ago. I dont know what the guys at Hunter had in mind when they conceived and built the Passage 450, but what rolled out of the door at the Alachua plant was a muscle machine indeed. Affectionately referred to as THE CONDO by some of the fleet (and her crew too for that matter), the Eau-de-Vie has come through unscathed from some extremely tough day in day out conditions, and has demonstrated a side of her that few could have imagined, or some even hoped for. Not her Owner, however. My experience with our Passage 42 had clearly demonstrated that Hunter builds a fine, resilient, performance sailboat that is fun to sail and safe to entrust ones family to, even in the harshest conditions. Would Dennis Sapp from Hunter ever think that Passage 450 hull number 17 would be pounded by 60 knot winds and 20 foot seas, enduring gale after gale, squall after squall, and cannon shots to her hull as she slammed and pounded in the troubled north atlantic for 6 days straight - and come through it all with only a light bulb out in the aft head? Others have not been so lucky, we hear reports of boats with no mainsails and jibs, broken autopilots, transmissions and engines, taking on water, and many loosing their SSB radios. So we are lucky - the Eau-de-Vie has turned out to a fantastically resilient blue water boat and we could ask no more from her. We still have all our systems functioning perfectly, have endured some very hostile conditions, and have come through them all smiling - hats off the HUNTER What about Eddie Breeden from Customer Service, who has so patiently dealt with our warranty issues over the last few months. Would he have thought that there would be no more after a passage of this ferocity. What about Bob Conroy, Scott and Mark of McDougalls Cape Cod Marine Service, Electronics Division in Falmouth MA, who worked with me in designing and then installed Eau-de-Vie's comprehensive and complex electronics system. Would they have thought that the 450 would be pelted and drenched with quantities of water the likes of which I have seldom seen, taking waves rolling down the foredeck and over the boat, and that every system would have functioned flawlessly and continuously even under these conditions, suffering only a light out in the ST-80 depth guage in the sea hood. I think we all feel a kind of bond to the Eau-de-Vie, I know I do, comforted by first-hand experience of just how solid and tough the 450 is. As for how she sails, well we all agree that this aspect of her character is laudable indeed. Sensitive to sail plan, the 450 can be made to make solid progress in just about any conditions. Anybody thinking about purchasing a 450 must spec it with the Baby Stay option. This has proved invaluable to us. Double reefed with a No. 3/5 hanked on to the baby stay in 30 knots and the 450 is powered up and a comfortable ride. Triple reefed with the storm jib and we still made head way in 40 knots, without being laid on our side. The key of course is to keep the boat powered up and driving - this way the 450 is a competent, safe and liveable heavy weather boat. We would like to say thank you to Hunter and all the people who put Hull Number 17 together. You have done a bang up job in giving us a boat that will take us safely around the world and has already protected us during our gale ridden passage to Bermuda - a true blue water cruiser, in which I note on the log, that as of today we have logged 3,120 blue water sea miles since her launch on May 27th 1997. Bravo. Chris Oldham
I pulled this from the 11/14/97 post of Eau-de-Vie, a Passage 450, which was circumnavigating and easily handled 60-knot winds and 20-foot seas. Actual performance and results carry more weight than random opinions. The log of the entire journey is somewhere on this site but here's my favorite - Since we left Newport for Bermuda some ten days ago we have told the story of the crew of the Eau-de-Vie, and the things we have encountered along the way. But now it is time to spare some thought for the boat - without which none of us woud be here, and without whose sterling performance we may not have been in such good shape when we arrived in St Georges in the early hours of that Sunday morning a few days ago. I dont know what the guys at Hunter had in mind when they conceived and built the Passage 450, but what rolled out of the door at the Alachua plant was a muscle machine indeed. Affectionately referred to as THE CONDO by some of the fleet (and her crew too for that matter), the Eau-de-Vie has come through unscathed from some extremely tough day in day out conditions, and has demonstrated a side of her that few could have imagined, or some even hoped for. Not her Owner, however. My experience with our Passage 42 had clearly demonstrated that Hunter builds a fine, resilient, performance sailboat that is fun to sail and safe to entrust ones family to, even in the harshest conditions. Would Dennis Sapp from Hunter ever think that Passage 450 hull number 17 would be pounded by 60 knot winds and 20 foot seas, enduring gale after gale, squall after squall, and cannon shots to her hull as she slammed and pounded in the troubled north atlantic for 6 days straight - and come through it all with only a light bulb out in the aft head? Others have not been so lucky, we hear reports of boats with no mainsails and jibs, broken autopilots, transmissions and engines, taking on water, and many loosing their SSB radios. So we are lucky - the Eau-de-Vie has turned out to a fantastically resilient blue water boat and we could ask no more from her. We still have all our systems functioning perfectly, have endured some very hostile conditions, and have come through them all smiling - hats off the HUNTER What about Eddie Breeden from Customer Service, who has so patiently dealt with our warranty issues over the last few months. Would he have thought that there would be no more after a passage of this ferocity. What about Bob Conroy, Scott and Mark of McDougalls Cape Cod Marine Service, Electronics Division in Falmouth MA, who worked with me in designing and then installed Eau-de-Vie's comprehensive and complex electronics system. Would they have thought that the 450 would be pelted and drenched with quantities of water the likes of which I have seldom seen, taking waves rolling down the foredeck and over the boat, and that every system would have functioned flawlessly and continuously even under these conditions, suffering only a light out in the ST-80 depth guage in the sea hood. I think we all feel a kind of bond to the Eau-de-Vie, I know I do, comforted by first-hand experience of just how solid and tough the 450 is. As for how she sails, well we all agree that this aspect of her character is laudable indeed. Sensitive to sail plan, the 450 can be made to make solid progress in just about any conditions. Anybody thinking about purchasing a 450 must spec it with the Baby Stay option. This has proved invaluable to us. Double reefed with a No. 3/5 hanked on to the baby stay in 30 knots and the 450 is powered up and a comfortable ride. Triple reefed with the storm jib and we still made head way in 40 knots, without being laid on our side. The key of course is to keep the boat powered up and driving - this way the 450 is a competent, safe and liveable heavy weather boat. We would like to say thank you to Hunter and all the people who put Hull Number 17 together. You have done a bang up job in giving us a boat that will take us safely around the world and has already protected us during our gale ridden passage to Bermuda - a true blue water cruiser, in which I note on the log, that as of today we have logged 3,120 blue water sea miles since her launch on May 27th 1997. Bravo. Chris Oldham
Rivendel II's bluewater voyages (overview)
This discussion seems to center on what larger Hunters can do (or not do) and my earlier remarks might be interpreted to mean that the newer large Hunters are not up to the task. With a few exceptions (e.g. where integrity of newer chain plate constructions without tension rod back-up needs to be questioned or where rudder construction has come under scrutiny ) hulls and rigging are probably just fine and the real attention should go to the preparation of the vessel as well as of its skipper and crew. When trying to take your "Huntebenelina" offshore there should never be any doubt that YOU are supposed to take care of HER before you can hiope to see your affections returned when the chips are down. In short, I was trying to tell Vincent that he was not ready to properly prepare and operate a Hunter 460 for an offshore passage, let alone a circumnavigation. Meanwhile, in order to preserve Rivendel II's cruising and passagemaking record in a single place where it can be easily referenced for future discussions about bluewater performance of larger Hunters, I am attaching a jpeg image of RII's "log". I don't know whether Rivendel's current total sailed distance and/or bluewater mileage constitute a record for production sailing vessels built by Hunter Marine or not. It would certainly be interesting to hear of other Hunters that might perhaps have put more miles under their keels. Although this is only a short list, rather than a true log, anyone interested in more details about some of RII's passages, as well as her various upgrades and modifications, can readily find more information by searching the archives -- including the Google archives of various usenet groups -- using either "Rivendel" or "Henk Meuzelaar" or "Flying Dutchman" as search terms. If all goes well, we hope to sail Rivendel II back to the US West Coast sometime in 2006. Fair winds! Flying Dutchman
This discussion seems to center on what larger Hunters can do (or not do) and my earlier remarks might be interpreted to mean that the newer large Hunters are not up to the task. With a few exceptions (e.g. where integrity of newer chain plate constructions without tension rod back-up needs to be questioned or where rudder construction has come under scrutiny ) hulls and rigging are probably just fine and the real attention should go to the preparation of the vessel as well as of its skipper and crew. When trying to take your "Huntebenelina" offshore there should never be any doubt that YOU are supposed to take care of HER before you can hiope to see your affections returned when the chips are down. In short, I was trying to tell Vincent that he was not ready to properly prepare and operate a Hunter 460 for an offshore passage, let alone a circumnavigation. Meanwhile, in order to preserve Rivendel II's cruising and passagemaking record in a single place where it can be easily referenced for future discussions about bluewater performance of larger Hunters, I am attaching a jpeg image of RII's "log". I don't know whether Rivendel's current total sailed distance and/or bluewater mileage constitute a record for production sailing vessels built by Hunter Marine or not. It would certainly be interesting to hear of other Hunters that might perhaps have put more miles under their keels. Although this is only a short list, rather than a true log, anyone interested in more details about some of RII's passages, as well as her various upgrades and modifications, can readily find more information by searching the archives -- including the Google archives of various usenet groups -- using either "Rivendel" or "Henk Meuzelaar" or "Flying Dutchman" as search terms. If all goes well, we hope to sail Rivendel II back to the US West Coast sometime in 2006. Fair winds! Flying Dutchman
Attachments
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Thank you to all who wrote, especially Henk who indeed saw that I was a green horn. We are in the very start of the adventure, just starting the lessons and reading logs and studying, with a few years to go before we are ready to head out, but with all the boats on the market, we, being in Florida, had looked first to those manufacturers in our back yard, as well as the fact that it seemed Hunter was a real value. We had asked many owners of other sailboats here about their particular models and manufacturers, and those that didn't own Hunters were less than complimentary about Hunter's offshore credentials, therefore I thought I would go to the source and see if there were any doing what I would like to do in the future on a Hunter. So, thanks for the input and keep it coming. I have come to believe that quality (in boats) is not necessary confined to the (much) more expensive manufacturers, and for someone in my starting position, that is the first in many things I needed to learn. Thanks and keep the comments coming. Fair Winds, Vincent
Thank you to all who wrote, especially Henk who indeed saw that I was a green horn. We are in the very start of the adventure, just starting the lessons and reading logs and studying, with a few years to go before we are ready to head out, but with all the boats on the market, we, being in Florida, had looked first to those manufacturers in our back yard, as well as the fact that it seemed Hunter was a real value. We had asked many owners of other sailboats here about their particular models and manufacturers, and those that didn't own Hunters were less than complimentary about Hunter's offshore credentials, therefore I thought I would go to the source and see if there were any doing what I would like to do in the future on a Hunter. So, thanks for the input and keep it coming. I have come to believe that quality (in boats) is not necessary confined to the (much) more expensive manufacturers, and for someone in my starting position, that is the first in many things I needed to learn. Thanks and keep the comments coming. Fair Winds, Vincent
devil's advocate
I'm certainly not saying that Hunter builds a bad boat. I own a 1998 h410 upon which I've logged over 7,000 nautical miles. I bought it because I wanted a liveaboard that I could sail actively, including coastal passages, and because I also wanted to be able to afford graduate school. On the up side, the boat was so affordable that I was able to start working on a second advanced degree a couple years after completing the first. On the down side, if I ever catch the circumnavigation bug, I'd have to drop out, sell this boat and purchase something designed with offshore passagemaking in mind. There are always tradeoffs: for example I'd lose the great "party" cockpit on my current boat because it's just not right for extended passages. I'd lose the roominess down below because I'd want proper sea-berths. I'd have to sacrifice the second head because, on a 41-footer at least, there's just not enough storage space as it is. I'd also be looking for something engineered much stronger so I wouldn't have to worry about losing a rudder mid-ocean. So what I'm saying, Vincent, is that if you're looking to circumnavigate, this is not the boat. Do people do it? You bet. Is it the right boat for the job? No way.
I'm certainly not saying that Hunter builds a bad boat. I own a 1998 h410 upon which I've logged over 7,000 nautical miles. I bought it because I wanted a liveaboard that I could sail actively, including coastal passages, and because I also wanted to be able to afford graduate school. On the up side, the boat was so affordable that I was able to start working on a second advanced degree a couple years after completing the first. On the down side, if I ever catch the circumnavigation bug, I'd have to drop out, sell this boat and purchase something designed with offshore passagemaking in mind. There are always tradeoffs: for example I'd lose the great "party" cockpit on my current boat because it's just not right for extended passages. I'd lose the roominess down below because I'd want proper sea-berths. I'd have to sacrifice the second head because, on a 41-footer at least, there's just not enough storage space as it is. I'd also be looking for something engineered much stronger so I wouldn't have to worry about losing a rudder mid-ocean. So what I'm saying, Vincent, is that if you're looking to circumnavigate, this is not the boat. Do people do it? You bet. Is it the right boat for the job? No way.
Must be nice to know everything
John: Since you seem to belive that your needs, perceptions, and OPINIONS are universally applicable, I wonder if you could also tell us all what is the best car to drive, where is the best place to live, and what is the right food to eat? I could have saved my self a lot of trouble over the years by just coming to you directly!
John: Since you seem to belive that your needs, perceptions, and OPINIONS are universally applicable, I wonder if you could also tell us all what is the best car to drive, where is the best place to live, and what is the right food to eat? I could have saved my self a lot of trouble over the years by just coming to you directly!
In John's Defence, Tony...
..I think he was just passing on a personal assessment as an owner, which is certainly credible. Actually, most production boats will probably outsail their owners in adverse conditions. I think what John is referring to is priorities. Things like fuel tankage, storage, sea berths and the like. Most of those things can be accomodated (see Henk's modifications). But, the boats are designed for a market which isn't lengthy continuous passagemaking. Again, that doesn't mean they are poorly constructed or lack seaworthiness, just that they are made for the 95% use most owners use them for. I think we can agree the Hunter 50 is exactly the kind of boat targeting the other 5% and is well designed for long offshore passages and lengthy cruising. Rick D.
..I think he was just passing on a personal assessment as an owner, which is certainly credible. Actually, most production boats will probably outsail their owners in adverse conditions. I think what John is referring to is priorities. Things like fuel tankage, storage, sea berths and the like. Most of those things can be accomodated (see Henk's modifications). But, the boats are designed for a market which isn't lengthy continuous passagemaking. Again, that doesn't mean they are poorly constructed or lack seaworthiness, just that they are made for the 95% use most owners use them for. I think we can agree the Hunter 50 is exactly the kind of boat targeting the other 5% and is well designed for long offshore passages and lengthy cruising. Rick D.
My Turn,
Respecting John, Henk, and everyone elses' opinions, I , (owning a 2001 H420) feel that larger Hunters are probable as adiquate for extended Blue Water cruising as any other production boat ... if properly outfitted and sailed. I have experienced 50+ kt winds and 20' seas in my boat. The boat withstood the experience without any damage...., the crew, on the other hand, wasn't built nearly as well to withstand the rigors of the sea. One other point... while chartering in Tahiti a few years ago, I saw numerous boats that had made it at least that far, that I wouldn't have thought seaworthy enough to day sail on in the Chesapeake Bay.... Yet, there they were. IMHO, the larger model Hunters are up to the task... Will some of them experience serious problems... certainly. But so too will boats of any price or quality, ...
Respecting John, Henk, and everyone elses' opinions, I , (owning a 2001 H420) feel that larger Hunters are probable as adiquate for extended Blue Water cruising as any other production boat ... if properly outfitted and sailed. I have experienced 50+ kt winds and 20' seas in my boat. The boat withstood the experience without any damage...., the crew, on the other hand, wasn't built nearly as well to withstand the rigors of the sea. One other point... while chartering in Tahiti a few years ago, I saw numerous boats that had made it at least that far, that I wouldn't have thought seaworthy enough to day sail on in the Chesapeake Bay.... Yet, there they were. IMHO, the larger model Hunters are up to the task... Will some of them experience serious problems... certainly. But so too will boats of any price or quality, ...
I was going to stay out of this, too hotttt!
Buck, You hit it. It's up to the skipper to educate them self, pick a sound boat, (affordable) properly outfit it, AND GO!
Buck, You hit it. It's up to the skipper to educate them self, pick a sound boat, (affordable) properly outfit it, AND GO!
a car for
I'd be happy to recommend a car, "Tony," but first you'd have to tell me what you want to use it for. For sake of argument, let's say that this is a website for owners of Ford Minivans. Someone comes along and says that he wants to purchase a vehicle to do some serious off-roading, and wonders whether a Ford Minivan would fit the bill. One of the owners states that a better choice would be a 4WD Sport Utility Vehicle. Of course, someone else will say that they were up at the lake last weekend and they saw someone drive a Minivan down the dirt road to the launch ramp, therefore Minivans are great off-road vehicles. And someone else will testify that they drove their Minivan through an eight-inch pothole and it did just fine. You get the picture, "Tony?" Understand, please, that this website is a place where owners of Hunter sailboats can advise both each other and prospective owners. Unfortunately, we have another category of people who haunt this site: I call them "flamers." They are easy to spot because they tend not to give a full name and they'd generally rather engage in personal attacks than in knowledgable discourse about sailing and sailboats. There are two types of flamers: the Cruising-World BBS guys who want to engage in a bit of extraneous Hunter bashing because that makes them feel better about the inadequacies of their own vessels, and the other type who want to trash anyone who might dare to suggest that Hunters have their limitations. I've long suspected that the second type include boat salesmen with too much time on their hands who have a vested interest in making the products appear to be able to "go the distance." The fact is, "Tony," that the flamers are hurting this site because they discourage a good percentage of actual boat owners from posting their questions or comments. If you really are a boat owner, "Tony," think about that the next time you launch a personal attack, and try to remember that we'd be far more interested in reflections on your personal experience with your own boat.
I'd be happy to recommend a car, "Tony," but first you'd have to tell me what you want to use it for. For sake of argument, let's say that this is a website for owners of Ford Minivans. Someone comes along and says that he wants to purchase a vehicle to do some serious off-roading, and wonders whether a Ford Minivan would fit the bill. One of the owners states that a better choice would be a 4WD Sport Utility Vehicle. Of course, someone else will say that they were up at the lake last weekend and they saw someone drive a Minivan down the dirt road to the launch ramp, therefore Minivans are great off-road vehicles. And someone else will testify that they drove their Minivan through an eight-inch pothole and it did just fine. You get the picture, "Tony?" Understand, please, that this website is a place where owners of Hunter sailboats can advise both each other and prospective owners. Unfortunately, we have another category of people who haunt this site: I call them "flamers." They are easy to spot because they tend not to give a full name and they'd generally rather engage in personal attacks than in knowledgable discourse about sailing and sailboats. There are two types of flamers: the Cruising-World BBS guys who want to engage in a bit of extraneous Hunter bashing because that makes them feel better about the inadequacies of their own vessels, and the other type who want to trash anyone who might dare to suggest that Hunters have their limitations. I've long suspected that the second type include boat salesmen with too much time on their hands who have a vested interest in making the products appear to be able to "go the distance." The fact is, "Tony," that the flamers are hurting this site because they discourage a good percentage of actual boat owners from posting their questions or comments. If you really are a boat owner, "Tony," think about that the next time you launch a personal attack, and try to remember that we'd be far more interested in reflections on your personal experience with your own boat.
very well put John..
As a longtimer here HOW, I'm noticing a marked increase in "flamers" as you put it and self appointed "hall monitors" as I call em. I too have long suspected that some of the posters here are dealers or others in the business trying to incite reaction (e.g., this string and the other 10k like it here.) After all, what does anyone write here except for their own opinion? (perhaps with the limited exception of Crazy Dave who admirably discloses himself as a dealer and therefore presumably has some more knowledge than others, and of course Peggy and the other invited expers. And even they give educated opinions.) Everyone here should read what you want, skip what you don't, and stay out of the rest. Move on folks, there's lots to see......
As a longtimer here HOW, I'm noticing a marked increase in "flamers" as you put it and self appointed "hall monitors" as I call em. I too have long suspected that some of the posters here are dealers or others in the business trying to incite reaction (e.g., this string and the other 10k like it here.) After all, what does anyone write here except for their own opinion? (perhaps with the limited exception of Crazy Dave who admirably discloses himself as a dealer and therefore presumably has some more knowledge than others, and of course Peggy and the other invited expers. And even they give educated opinions.) Everyone here should read what you want, skip what you don't, and stay out of the rest. Move on folks, there's lots to see......
Well John and Don, that about says it all.
Kind of like a story I read on CNNs' web site about the email worm that's going around. The #1 suspects are linux pros.
Kind of like a story I read on CNNs' web site about the email worm that's going around. The #1 suspects are linux pros.
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