Any advise on keeping cockpit drains from freezing on the hard

[H3newdog]

This will be my first winter with my "new" H34. It's on the hard so I have power available for a heat tape on the drain line for the cockpit drains but not sure if I need it. The port drain holds some water in the bottom of the fitting which I'm concerned might freeze and crack the plastic fitting. I've thought of placing one of those foam peanuts in the drain with a stick to hold it in place to allow space for the inevitable water to expand. In Deltaville VA so don't expect sub zero temps. but it will freeze for sure. The starboard drain has damage around it that looks like it was from ice which I would like to avoid. Just wondering what others do.

 

[centerline]

The port drain holds some water in the bottom of the fitting which I'm concerned might freeze and crack the plastic fitting.
I've thought of placing one of those foam peanuts in the drain with a stick to hold it in place to allow space for the inevitable water to expand.

that is an innovative idea... by placing the foam peanut in there to allow for expansion, it would also displace some of the water so there would be less to expand. I would bet the integrity of your cockpit drain that it will work fine.... would you?

but for a long term fix, the drain should be installed correctly so it does drain all the way(and quicker), then the entire problem and worry wont exist anymore...

 

[njlarry]

Best practices would be to cover the cockpit to prevent snow thaw freeze damage and add an open garboard drain plug to your bilge to remove any water that does get in.

 

[H3newdog]

that is an innovative idea... by placing the foam peanut in there to allow for expansion, it would also displace some of the water so there would be less to expand. I would bet the integrity of your cockpit drain that it will work fine.... would you?

but for a long term fix, the drain should be installed correctly so it does drain all the way(and quicker), then the entire problem and worry wont exist anymore...

Well no disagreement there centerline, this appears to be the way the mfg installed it. The drain runs along the ceiling of the "aft stateroom" which just barely allows me enough room to roll over without hitting it now. They also used a 90 deg. fitting that holds a small amount of water below where the outlet is.

 

[H3newdog]

Best practices would be to cover the cockpit to prevent snow thaw freeze damage and add an open garboard drain plug to your bilge to remove any water that does get in.

Thought about that also but covering the cockpit with a tarp strong enough and pitched enough for snow would in my opinion require covering the entire boat which is a big project in itself to prevent two small drains that don't drain properly because the mfg. didn't have to worry about it. First rule of plumbing "stuff don't run up hill".

 

[agprice22]

Could you wick that water out of there with a piece of rope trailed out of the drain?

 

[H3newdog]

I hadn't thought of using a rope, I have used paper towels to dry out things before but didn't think it would last long exposed outside. I'll have to try the rope wick. Thanks!

 

[IH82BL8]

I had the same problem on my H31. For the time being I just chunked a block of wood between the drain line and the ceiling in the quarterberth. This removes the low spot from the line ensuring positive, continuous drainage. When I first noticed the problem it was full of ice and completely closed up. This is a good place to mention that those scupper screens can also get clogged with debris and, with very little freeboard into the companionway, can put water into the cabin pretty quickly.

 

[H3newdog]

I'll have to check to see if I can get a full slope on the drain as it disappears into the wood at the back of the compartment. I plan on opening that area anyway. You are so right about the drain covers, when I got the boat it had one of those fiber doormats on the engine cover. I had water entering the "aft stateroom" under the pedestal which stopped when I cleaned the drains so rain would drain before getting over the raised area where the pedestal mounts. At the start of fall I knew from house drains that you need to keep leaves & such from blocking the drains so I installed a small screen which has worked well to date.

 

[agprice22]

Try the cupped sink strainers at Lowe's. I had them on my C22. Used upside-down, they allow water to keep draining even after a little debris covers the sides. I used butyl rubber to stick them down.

 

[Ron20324]

I can't tell if you can do without that "grate" over the drain? If the drain is open (like a thru-hull) roll up some screen wire to make a tube about 6 inches long. Stick it in the drain so it's about 4 inches tall and it should never clog.

 

[H3newdog]

agprice22, the recessed area around the drain is quite small. I friend uses the strainers you mentioned in her sink and the rim is quite large along with the small surface area that could be clogged between my trips to the boat. I'm amazed at the debris from trees in the cockpit each weekend as there are only a line of low pine trees on my side of the yard.

Ron, I've gone the route of wider than higher to prevent water from getting any depth as the rise where the pedestal connects is only about an inch up so any water over that causes a drip below. I'm not sure if the pedestal leaks or the support bar for the nav pods at this point because I've not eyeballed the drip below, only the puddle.

 

[Charlie98117]

I've been wondering about the port side cockpit drain on my H34 as well. The drain is raised about 1/2" or so, I haven't looked too closely and was not sure if it was factory or not. Or perhaps by PO to help the trapped water issue in the aft cabin drain line. There still is a bit of a trap formed but it is less than half the diameter of the drain line so I thought the line would never be full so it always had some room for things to expand.

The raised drain of course doesn't allow the cockpit drain to completely drain the port side. Fortunately, the starboard side is set flush and the infamous H34 starboard list works to send everything over to that side pretty well. The plumber in me wants to drop the drain and piping to get a proper slope but it's not very high on the priority list. We don't get much of a freeze around here and she stays in the water all winter.

Is that a lot of gel coat cracking I see in your photos where the drainage channel is formed? If so that could be the source of your leak, water entering the wood core and coming out anywhere it can. Have you ever had a moisture test done on the deck?

 

[H3newdog]

Charlie, I am assuming the cracking around the stb. drain was from a PO freeze as it is not in an area that would normally be subject to damage. It also looks to me as if someone glued the broken pieces back in place, it reminds me of a repaired vase. I hadn't thought of a leak there as I'm 6'4" and too scared I'll never get out of the dungeon to have noticed if there is a leak there. The known leak is above the mattress under the steering gear cover, cover removed. I have never seen the leak occurring as I clean the drains as soon as I arrive aboard so any rain didn't get up to the pedestal hump. The fitting (pic. attached) that I have for the port drain is huge and low which is causing my concern. On a side note, when the yard blocked the boat up they gave it a slight list to port. I don't know if it's just me or I have gotten used to listing the other way but when I spend the night I find it difficult to sleep against the hull.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm amazed at how poorly that drain fitting is installed. The way the hose is clamped against the underside forms a trap for debris to collect, and from the looks of the photos, you get a lot of debris. I suspect that if you haven't removed that elbow fitting by now, it is probably clogged with gunk and the flow is restricted by more than half. I'm thinking it looks like the trap on Sue's vanity sink before I clean it out, which has to be done at least once a year (I don't know why she washes her hair in the sink!).
Aside from that, the damage to the fiberglass and gelcoat looks much too significant to have been caused by water freezing on the outside of the drain. It looks more like it is disintegrating from water inside the core that is freezing. Flimsy plastic ice cube trays don't crack like that. When the water is unconfined on the surface, ice won't cause any damage. It is the confined ice inside the core that is popping the gelcoat loose. It sounds like there are some issues with water in the core that should be resolved quickly. I'd look at those drains and want to re-route them immediately. At least the fitting is where you can get to it easily, but I'm also amazed that they put the fitting in an interior finished space.
I would think that for safety reasons, the drain size and the hose could be enlarged and run as vertically as possible to the discharge thru hull, which would also need to be enlarged. Cockpits should drain quickly and there should never be any lingering water. That horizontal run with corrugated pipe is a poor design and installation because it restricts flow and allows debris to accumulate inside the run. It should be modified. I don't know why you would want a grate to trap debris at the drain. I like debris to get flushed through the hose, so I think it is best that they are open. The problem is that you have a trap below the drain. You should eliminate the trap and not worry about the debris. I'd guess one down-side is that something valuable might disappear too quickly to recover. Hopefully, you don't let a ring or other jewelry get detached!

 

[Jackdaw]

Well no disagreement there centerline, this appears to be the way the mfg installed it. The drain runs along the ceiling of the "aft stateroom" which just barely allows me enough room to roll over without hitting it now. They also used a 90 deg. fitting that holds a small amount of water below where the outlet is.

Indeed. Both Hunter and Catalina seemed to design their cockpit drains without regard to the possibly of freezing, OR falling leaves! My C22 and C25 were diabolical in this regard. Must be the SoCal/Florida heat going to their heads! ;^)

 

[Gunni]

Shrink-wrap tent the cockpit area and take the off-season opportunity to repair your fiberglass. I would replace that fitting with a proper bronze, larger diameter, lose the elbow and use smooth drain pipe, no elbows.

 

[H3newdog]

Scott, I hear you about the drain but good plumbing practices and retaining any use of the "aft stateroom" are going to take some thinking. I very much agree that the drains need to empty the cockpit fast. As noted the grill on these clog easily and even when they're clear they are slow. I'm wondering if the grills have been removed so often that's why the screw heads are rounded out.
Gunni, tenting would work of course but not a fan of the waste it creates. I'll have to take a closer look at the damage ares and what's below to see how that drain is run. They both exit under the transom so the run is a bit long.

 

[Maine Sail]

Gunni, tenting would work of course but not a fan of the waste it creates.

Our shrink wrap is 100% recycled each season and turned back into LDPE pellet form. If you don't have a recycle facility nearby, that takes and processes shrink wrap, then Dr. Shrink has the national "Re-Bag" program

Our frame is made from in-expensive strapping & 2X3's and last at least 5-6 years. When the frame is toast I chop it up and we burn it in the wood stove or in the outdoor fire pit so no waste there either. You could very easily build a frame from EMT conduit that would last 20-30 years.. The damage from continual freeze thaw cycles will extend further than just the cockpit scuppers. I see it regularly...

You also have the option of cotton duck canvas which can last 10-20 years if properly cared for. I have a customer with a cotton duck canvas cover that is now 19 years old, and the EMT frame is also 19 years old. Some re-stitching has been done along the way but other than that the cover is original..

The correct answer for how to prevent the drains from freezing is to simply:

Cover the boat...

 

[Chris & Lenore]

Here is a simple method that many around here use.
Shove a length of garden hose down the scupper until it protrudes from the bottom fitting.
Cap off the top of the hose so water can't enter. If you have two scuppers just use a longer hose and shove one end down each drain (then no need to cap off).
The hose serves two purposes. One, it limits the amount of water that can pool in the drain. Two, if water does find its way into the drain the hose crushes instead of the drain hose breaking.
Lots of people use this method and they all swear by it (instead of at it )

Chris