"If It's your boat, it's your responsibility" This is the State of California anti-boater slogan. It sounds like a public service however it is actually a money grubbing liberal socialist government slickly duping the public into voting for future "licensing" of skippers, with associated license fees and who knows what other requirements. One ad states, "Over 1600 alchohol related incidents occurred on California waterways last year". What's an "alcohol related incident"? Does that involve the operator? BTW, that includes all rivers, lakes and coastal areas. In comparison, there were over 3,500 actual alchohol arrests that occured on California highways...last week. In fact, over 187,000 actual highway arrests occured in 2003. Who knows how many "alcohol related incidents" there were. see: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/profile/rd/r_d_report/Section%205/211-2005%20DUI%20MIS%20Report.pdf How is it that we suddenly have a huge alchohol-related problem in boating? I agree it should be monitored and prevented, however a multi-million dollar consistent campaign? The next one is the "poop" ads that state that we are all basically dumping our holding tanks illegally. How is this suddenly occurring? How is this suddenly a problem? How do we know that everyone is dumping? Is there a bacterial problem? What's the problem? The last is the drowning issue and life jackets. we all know the importance of life jackets. How is it that drowning and boats is suddenly a statewide problem? I believe the TOTAL number of deaths (including drownings) nationwide is something like 600. How many for CA? I don't know, but does the number justify a huge campaign? This campaign is to tune the public so that when the gov introduces legislation to steal our money and regulate us to death, everyone will say, "Yeah, no more poop!, yeah, no more drownings! Yeah, no more boozing skippers!
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Fool's rage
All of the issues in the ads you relate--alcohol, pdf's, and waste management--are genuine problems. If you don't believe it, read your copy of seaworthy that comes with your BoatUS insurance (what? insurance? another commie plot to take away our liberties?!). If the state of California is only now taking to the airwaves to make boaters aware of them, then I say it's never too late to do the right thing. You're letting your ideological (and misguided) hatred of government blind you to all reason. As the ad said, we all have a responsibility here. Incidentally, if the numbers you gave for boat/alcohol arrests (that's what they mean by "incidents", and I suspect you were an "incident" recently and hence ticked off at the authorities) are correct, then given the small number of boats vs. cars in California, you guys have an astounding problem of drinking while boating. Those 1600 boating arrests would be the equivalent of about 16,000 driving arrests...
All of the issues in the ads you relate--alcohol, pdf's, and waste management--are genuine problems. If you don't believe it, read your copy of seaworthy that comes with your BoatUS insurance (what? insurance? another commie plot to take away our liberties?!). If the state of California is only now taking to the airwaves to make boaters aware of them, then I say it's never too late to do the right thing. You're letting your ideological (and misguided) hatred of government blind you to all reason. As the ad said, we all have a responsibility here. Incidentally, if the numbers you gave for boat/alcohol arrests (that's what they mean by "incidents", and I suspect you were an "incident" recently and hence ticked off at the authorities) are correct, then given the small number of boats vs. cars in California, you guys have an astounding problem of drinking while boating. Those 1600 boating arrests would be the equivalent of about 16,000 driving arrests...
Chill, Brother
Jeff, Sometimes it takes a big media blitz to make people aware of a problem. Remember (I may be assuming you're older than you really are) the anti-littering advertisements with the crying Indian? It took years of public service reminders to make people think twice before throwing trash out of their car windows. Not all public policy initiatives have dark Orwellian undertones. Some do, but not all.
Jeff, Sometimes it takes a big media blitz to make people aware of a problem. Remember (I may be assuming you're older than you really are) the anti-littering advertisements with the crying Indian? It took years of public service reminders to make people think twice before throwing trash out of their car windows. Not all public policy initiatives have dark Orwellian undertones. Some do, but not all.
It IS your boat it IS your responsibility
For millenia the skipper, captain, owner, master or whatever other name you might apply has always been responsible for his vessel. This is nothing new. The problem is, responsibility seems to be a foreign concept to many. "Yeah, no more poop!, yeah, no more drownings! Yeah, no more boozing skippers!" Those all sound like good things to me.
For millenia the skipper, captain, owner, master or whatever other name you might apply has always been responsible for his vessel. This is nothing new. The problem is, responsibility seems to be a foreign concept to many. "Yeah, no more poop!, yeah, no more drownings! Yeah, no more boozing skippers!" Those all sound like good things to me.
That's "Rich"
Rich, AKA Moron, No, have never been arrested for anything. Yes, know all the rules of the water. No, don't hate the government, only the money grubbers, love cops, fire and other public service people (not physically) who do their jobs well. Yes, I read all the insurance pubs, which, ironically, try very hard to get you not to do anything that would cause a claim. You all missed the point completely. Read it again. And again. Guys, there is no sudden problem. In fact, according to the beloved insurance mags, incidents in many categories are decreasing. We don't dump poop. We're not all drunken sailors. Kids aren't flying off of boats with no life jackets on. It's very sad to see that you have all fallen victim and are so ready to give your money and freedom away. "Yeah! Sounds good to me! No poop! Yeehaw! Take my money!" Dude, there was no poop to begin with. It's a c a m p a i g n. It's ironic, I actually thought sailors were smarter than that, hence the publication of the 1st message. I should have wrote to the bingo club, would have received the same response. I will re-send this when they hit us with the licensing fee campaign.
Rich, AKA Moron, No, have never been arrested for anything. Yes, know all the rules of the water. No, don't hate the government, only the money grubbers, love cops, fire and other public service people (not physically) who do their jobs well. Yes, I read all the insurance pubs, which, ironically, try very hard to get you not to do anything that would cause a claim. You all missed the point completely. Read it again. And again. Guys, there is no sudden problem. In fact, according to the beloved insurance mags, incidents in many categories are decreasing. We don't dump poop. We're not all drunken sailors. Kids aren't flying off of boats with no life jackets on. It's very sad to see that you have all fallen victim and are so ready to give your money and freedom away. "Yeah! Sounds good to me! No poop! Yeehaw! Take my money!" Dude, there was no poop to begin with. It's a c a m p a i g n. It's ironic, I actually thought sailors were smarter than that, hence the publication of the 1st message. I should have wrote to the bingo club, would have received the same response. I will re-send this when they hit us with the licensing fee campaign.
Sounds like it is working Jeff
I believe you are right. They are greasing the skids for something and it probably has my check book associated with it. I am pretty shocked that this forum is falling for it however. To paraphrase Jeff. We all know these are issues. Do you really want to have to get a license to sail, a permit to pump out or get a ticket because all three of you PFD straps are not done up right? These things will not "solve" the problem. In fact it may just make it worse as folks try to get around the regulations. And it will certainly cost us $$$$.
I believe you are right. They are greasing the skids for something and it probably has my check book associated with it. I am pretty shocked that this forum is falling for it however. To paraphrase Jeff. We all know these are issues. Do you really want to have to get a license to sail, a permit to pump out or get a ticket because all three of you PFD straps are not done up right? These things will not "solve" the problem. In fact it may just make it worse as folks try to get around the regulations. And it will certainly cost us $$$$.
I have lived long enough to have heard these cries
of outrage over the mandatory use of seat belts, the integration of schools, holding tanks, phosphate free laundry detergents, US postal service zip codes, container deposits to reduce littering, the use of head lights while using windshield wipers . I can't think of one that has had an adverse effect on my standard of living but I have heard the loud cries of outrage by those that get caught. When we use public space we must all remember that the public is twice as many people as it was fifty years ago. I will shoot you if you poop in my swimming pool. Why should I not expect you to be outraged if I pump my holding tank in your bay? If licences are the only way to force people to be responsive to the needs of the whole community then that is what must be done. Peer pressure is met with hostiliy and a warning to mind your own ****** business.
of outrage over the mandatory use of seat belts, the integration of schools, holding tanks, phosphate free laundry detergents, US postal service zip codes, container deposits to reduce littering, the use of head lights while using windshield wipers . I can't think of one that has had an adverse effect on my standard of living but I have heard the loud cries of outrage by those that get caught. When we use public space we must all remember that the public is twice as many people as it was fifty years ago. I will shoot you if you poop in my swimming pool. Why should I not expect you to be outraged if I pump my holding tank in your bay? If licences are the only way to force people to be responsive to the needs of the whole community then that is what must be done. Peer pressure is met with hostiliy and a warning to mind your own ****** business.
Here is another one to ponder!
http://cbs13.com/seenon/local_story_089225523.html $1500 per boat per year multiplied by over 1,000,000 boats. What are they going to do with all that money. ($1,500,000,000).
http://cbs13.com/seenon/local_story_089225523.html $1500 per boat per year multiplied by over 1,000,000 boats. What are they going to do with all that money. ($1,500,000,000).
How ablut good old fashion Responsibility?
First things first. I'm all for the public good. I don't want anybody dumping poop in the bay. Not because a government body told me not to do it but because I know that if everybody poops in one place it is going to get unhealthy and I would like to go for a swim once in a while. So because I'm a responsible individual I don't dump my poop. A similar argument can be made for drinking and drowning. Responsibility drives me to wear my PFD when needed and to be sober when I'm at the helm. The following views are exclusively my own and do not reflect the opinion of this forum. Nor are they directed at any one liberal evolutionist in particular Toggling to rant mode If you teach folks that they are evolved up from monkeys long enough they will start to believe it and start acting like monkeys. Monkeys poop where they live, would drive drunk and not care if we let them and probably not even turn around if one of there fellow monkeys fell overboard. If you tell them when you die it is over they will start living for the moment and not taking the long term view. If you have driven on the Wash DC interstate for more than 15 minutes you can see the that most drivers are TOTALLY self absorbed and living for the next car to pass. If you teach folks they are a child of God and they are responsible for their actions they tend to be more responsible and think of the consequences of their actions. The same liberals who will insist we teach the religion of evolution to our kids in schools are pushing this. toggling back to normal mode whoou! that feels better. Let the flaming begin.
First things first. I'm all for the public good. I don't want anybody dumping poop in the bay. Not because a government body told me not to do it but because I know that if everybody poops in one place it is going to get unhealthy and I would like to go for a swim once in a while. So because I'm a responsible individual I don't dump my poop. A similar argument can be made for drinking and drowning. Responsibility drives me to wear my PFD when needed and to be sober when I'm at the helm. The following views are exclusively my own and do not reflect the opinion of this forum. Nor are they directed at any one liberal evolutionist in particular Toggling to rant mode If you teach folks that they are evolved up from monkeys long enough they will start to believe it and start acting like monkeys. Monkeys poop where they live, would drive drunk and not care if we let them and probably not even turn around if one of there fellow monkeys fell overboard. If you tell them when you die it is over they will start living for the moment and not taking the long term view. If you have driven on the Wash DC interstate for more than 15 minutes you can see the that most drivers are TOTALLY self absorbed and living for the next car to pass. If you teach folks they are a child of God and they are responsible for their actions they tend to be more responsible and think of the consequences of their actions. The same liberals who will insist we teach the religion of evolution to our kids in schools are pushing this. toggling back to normal mode whoou! that feels better. Let the flaming begin.
Bill I'll be first. If you teach that people
EVOLVED from monkeys then they will not behave like monkeys but as the evolutionary improvement. If they resort to behaving like monkeys then they are not fully evolved.
You and I could amicably discuss this for a long time and the best we would accomplish is an exchange of ideals. Some of the most caring and loving people I know are Atheists and some of the most unpleasant, intolerant people claim to march under a religious banner. The statement has been made that you can best judge a person by the manner with which he/she treats those that can neither help them nor hurt them. The anonymity that boats and automobiles confer on people brings that statement validity.
EVOLVED from monkeys then they will not behave like monkeys but as the evolutionary improvement. If they resort to behaving like monkeys then they are not fully evolved.
You and I could amicably discuss this for a long time and the best we would accomplish is an exchange of ideals. Some of the most caring and loving people I know are Atheists and some of the most unpleasant, intolerant people claim to march under a religious banner. The statement has been made that you can best judge a person by the manner with which he/she treats those that can neither help them nor hurt them. The anonymity that boats and automobiles confer on people brings that statement validity.
Couldn't agree more Ross
We could discuss this till the cows come home and neither of us would have a different opinion. For the record I was talking about large groups of people not individuals. There are always going to be "more" and "less" "evolved" folks in any population. The problem comes when large numbers of folks start not using all those newly evolved traits (what ever those might be?) and resort to the tried and true, works for the monkeys, evolutionary sound tactics. I love you man! I'm putting you on my prayer list.
We could discuss this till the cows come home and neither of us would have a different opinion. For the record I was talking about large groups of people not individuals. There are always going to be "more" and "less" "evolved" folks in any population. The problem comes when large numbers of folks start not using all those newly evolved traits (what ever those might be?) and resort to the tried and true, works for the monkeys, evolutionary sound tactics. I love you man! I'm putting you on my prayer list.
Bill, read the evening news.
The evening news will dispell any of your imagined responsibilities that people will take. We have very responsible people starting wars all the time. But that belongs in the political forum and not here. I dont think that name calling and labeling belongs on this forum and I for one have been a little more conscious about that lately. Now that should be a responsibility of everyone on this forum especially after a newbie was scared out of here recently. Having said that, I remember way back when, when most people were against OSHA, myself included. Presently, we rarely have people falling from buildings while working as well as much much less industrial accident. The world is getting way to crowded to rely on individual responsibilities. Although the irresponsible population may make up a very small percentage, there are still enough of them to reak havoc on the rest of us. Imagine if it werent for a drivers license, the crazy and the blind would be driving. Some will always fall thru the cracks. The phrase "its your boat, its your responsibility" has always been the way of the sea. The only reason that it now sounds shocking is because that most have forgotten that. IMHO Tony B
The evening news will dispell any of your imagined responsibilities that people will take. We have very responsible people starting wars all the time. But that belongs in the political forum and not here. I dont think that name calling and labeling belongs on this forum and I for one have been a little more conscious about that lately. Now that should be a responsibility of everyone on this forum especially after a newbie was scared out of here recently. Having said that, I remember way back when, when most people were against OSHA, myself included. Presently, we rarely have people falling from buildings while working as well as much much less industrial accident. The world is getting way to crowded to rely on individual responsibilities. Although the irresponsible population may make up a very small percentage, there are still enough of them to reak havoc on the rest of us. Imagine if it werent for a drivers license, the crazy and the blind would be driving. Some will always fall thru the cracks. The phrase "its your boat, its your responsibility" has always been the way of the sea. The only reason that it now sounds shocking is because that most have forgotten that. IMHO Tony B
Agree with Jeff...my feeling is this is the first
step into making it into a "crisis" so that the state can do mandatory testing on boaters plus increase their revenues to help pay for the "crisis". Mark my words....its about increasing taxes and revenues one way or another. abe
step into making it into a "crisis" so that the state can do mandatory testing on boaters plus increase their revenues to help pay for the "crisis". Mark my words....its about increasing taxes and revenues one way or another. abe
I agree sailortonyb
Sorry if you thought I was pointing my comments at any one person. I assure you that was not my intention. I apologize if my comments where taken that way. Ross (I'm going to go out on a limb here Ross) and I have pretty thick skin and clearly have some differing opinions. But at the end of the day if I saw him floating without his PFD, next to a whiskey bottle and smelled sewage I'd fish him out. As I would do with anybody. And with that I'm going to stop hijacking the thread and let some other folks pip in.
Sorry if you thought I was pointing my comments at any one person. I assure you that was not my intention. I apologize if my comments where taken that way. Ross (I'm going to go out on a limb here Ross) and I have pretty thick skin and clearly have some differing opinions. But at the end of the day if I saw him floating without his PFD, next to a whiskey bottle and smelled sewage I'd fish him out. As I would do with anybody. And with that I'm going to stop hijacking the thread and let some other folks pip in.
Jeff, i think i missed your point.
I fail to see the connection between boating safety awareness and an anti-boater slogan. Many posters on this forum promote boating safety and i dont think that they are anti-boaters. If we take the reciprocal of this, does that mean that if we are totally irresponsible and keep our passengers on the brink of disaster, then we must be in favor of boating. Now hows that for being inflamatory? Anyway, this is meant to be more tongue in cheek than in a serious note. And Roos, dont run off yet, you brought up some interesting points. respectfully Tony B
I fail to see the connection between boating safety awareness and an anti-boater slogan. Many posters on this forum promote boating safety and i dont think that they are anti-boaters. If we take the reciprocal of this, does that mean that if we are totally irresponsible and keep our passengers on the brink of disaster, then we must be in favor of boating. Now hows that for being inflamatory? Anyway, this is meant to be more tongue in cheek than in a serious note. And Roos, dont run off yet, you brought up some interesting points. respectfully Tony B
But what's the point
of the registration? To pay for the cleanup of the poop? How is the registration going to keep people from doing the right thing? If anything it might piss 'em off enough to try to get what they are paying for--poop cleanup. To get people to do the right thing requires education not registration. Of course that may require a boating safety/"behaviour" course. I think they require it in Oregon and may soon in Washington, we took one a few years ago to get it out of the way. But at least you could say you got something for your money. Let's keep religion out of it--way to many bad things have been done for its sake. Doing the right thing should stand on its own. Cheers, HughR
of the registration? To pay for the cleanup of the poop? How is the registration going to keep people from doing the right thing? If anything it might piss 'em off enough to try to get what they are paying for--poop cleanup. To get people to do the right thing requires education not registration. Of course that may require a boating safety/"behaviour" course. I think they require it in Oregon and may soon in Washington, we took one a few years ago to get it out of the way. But at least you could say you got something for your money. Let's keep religion out of it--way to many bad things have been done for its sake. Doing the right thing should stand on its own. Cheers, HughR
Voters get what they deserve
If you are from CA and didn't vote, then you can't complain or gloat. If you voted for those proposing these rules, you can't complain. Welcome to the socialist world, where a few make the rules and everyone else is wrong. Stop tossing numbers around and start tossing politicians around. That's at least what Florida is waking up to. You can vote for socialism, vote for freedom, or leave.
If you are from CA and didn't vote, then you can't complain or gloat. If you voted for those proposing these rules, you can't complain. Welcome to the socialist world, where a few make the rules and everyone else is wrong. Stop tossing numbers around and start tossing politicians around. That's at least what Florida is waking up to. You can vote for socialism, vote for freedom, or leave.
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