Hi, Anyone know what the the Angle of Vanishing stability (AVS) (http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__avs.htm) is for the Hunter 37 Cutter, from my calculations it seems fairly low? I got 114 when calculated and I would have hoped a boat of this size would have been nearer 130 in AVS. The US measure for capsize seems to be the Capsize screen measure - anyone know how this relates to AVS? Would be keen to know you opinion as we are seriously considering buying a Hunter 37 Cutter for Ocean cruising and would like to know the general opinion on its stability. Sky
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Drogues and sails???
Seems like it would be hard on the boat. I won't put out a drogue until the sails are down. In my car I don't put on the brakes while pressing the accelerator.... I've broached many times in my Laser and releasing the sail is the best way to recover. A driend broached his 28' sailboat coming through an inlet. He kinda froze as we headed towards the jetty on our side. My Laser days paid off as I ran to the mainsail and released the sheet. We recovered quickly and missed the jetty. I guess that during the broach the mainsail overpowered the rudder and releasing the mainsail allowed the rudder to function. It probably also changed the vector of the force acting on the sail moving it towards the bow. The tide was going out as we were going in and it was getting rough in the gulf. My son and Jims girlfriend were puking so much that we decided to go in before the tide change. The waves were breaking where we broached even though the water was pretty deep. Small boats act much the same as big boats but turning a Laser turtle is no big deal unless the water is shallow enough that the mast hits the bottom. Rolling a 12,000# 28' sailboat would be another matter. People talk a lot about the ultimate storm but in my experience the most likely place to meet a large breaking wave is running an inlet. We have waited a couple of hours for a tide change when things got rough in the gulf just to avoid the large waves in the inlet. We have also braved large waves going out with the tide through the inlet to find a relatively flat gulf and great sailing.
Seems like it would be hard on the boat. I won't put out a drogue until the sails are down. In my car I don't put on the brakes while pressing the accelerator.... I've broached many times in my Laser and releasing the sail is the best way to recover. A driend broached his 28' sailboat coming through an inlet. He kinda froze as we headed towards the jetty on our side. My Laser days paid off as I ran to the mainsail and released the sheet. We recovered quickly and missed the jetty. I guess that during the broach the mainsail overpowered the rudder and releasing the mainsail allowed the rudder to function. It probably also changed the vector of the force acting on the sail moving it towards the bow. The tide was going out as we were going in and it was getting rough in the gulf. My son and Jims girlfriend were puking so much that we decided to go in before the tide change. The waves were breaking where we broached even though the water was pretty deep. Small boats act much the same as big boats but turning a Laser turtle is no big deal unless the water is shallow enough that the mast hits the bottom. Rolling a 12,000# 28' sailboat would be another matter. People talk a lot about the ultimate storm but in my experience the most likely place to meet a large breaking wave is running an inlet. We have waited a couple of hours for a tide change when things got rough in the gulf just to avoid the large waves in the inlet. We have also braved large waves going out with the tide through the inlet to find a relatively flat gulf and great sailing.
Never said a full drogue
Drogues come with the ability to reduce the drag (they are a bunch of little parachutes and you can just use one or two of them if you want). Just want enough to make it harder for the stern to swing when the rudder comes out of the water on those steep waves.
Drogues come with the ability to reduce the drag (they are a bunch of little parachutes and you can just use one or two of them if you want). Just want enough to make it harder for the stern to swing when the rudder comes out of the water on those steep waves.
r.w.landau
The kids I'm referring to are the professional racers that never grew up, the kind ya find on Sailing Anarchy that race neat little boats like Open 60's, Sydney39's Volvo 70's etc. These guys have their own terminalogy for bad things that happen on a boat. Ya don't wanna know what they call a downhaul.
The kids I'm referring to are the professional racers that never grew up, the kind ya find on Sailing Anarchy that race neat little boats like Open 60's, Sydney39's Volvo 70's etc. These guys have their own terminalogy for bad things that happen on a boat. Ya don't wanna know what they call a downhaul.
Ross
Some of us like it on the ragged edge. Me? I've been there when playing for most of my life, whether on motorcycles, race cars or boats. I reckon having reached the age of 50, I've learned the most painless way to find that edge. Incrementaly, slowly and mostly in control. Some folks will ask "Why do ya push it so far?" and I'll answer "I don't like surprises". If ya know the limits of a given piece of equipment in various conditions, ya won't get surprised in an emergency situation. Of course, there's an element of risk involved but if done right, it's within reason. Besides, I'm an adrenaline junkie, always have been. Why else would I build an 8 second toy for the weekend?
Some of us like it on the ragged edge. Me? I've been there when playing for most of my life, whether on motorcycles, race cars or boats. I reckon having reached the age of 50, I've learned the most painless way to find that edge. Incrementaly, slowly and mostly in control. Some folks will ask "Why do ya push it so far?" and I'll answer "I don't like surprises". If ya know the limits of a given piece of equipment in various conditions, ya won't get surprised in an emergency situation. Of course, there's an element of risk involved but if done right, it's within reason. Besides, I'm an adrenaline junkie, always have been. Why else would I build an 8 second toy for the weekend?
Charliecobra, I guess that having found the
"ragged edge" rather costly and being a congenital tight wad has made me cautious. My experience has been that I can imagine working close to the extremes and rehearse the proceedures in my head for dealing with these situations and be very well prepared for the reality when it meets me at an inconvenient time. I have never had an accident that required medical care beyond a few occasions of lacerations and minor broken bones, which is not to say I haven't come close a few times. At this stage of my life I don't have time to get hurt or to wreck my boat or car. So I use a depth sounder, I reef as is prudent and drive no faster than the rest of the traffic. I put snow tires on the car in the winter and keep a parka in the car during the winter even when the weather is mild.
"ragged edge" rather costly and being a congenital tight wad has made me cautious. My experience has been that I can imagine working close to the extremes and rehearse the proceedures in my head for dealing with these situations and be very well prepared for the reality when it meets me at an inconvenient time. I have never had an accident that required medical care beyond a few occasions of lacerations and minor broken bones, which is not to say I haven't come close a few times. At this stage of my life I don't have time to get hurt or to wreck my boat or car. So I use a depth sounder, I reef as is prudent and drive no faster than the rest of the traffic. I put snow tires on the car in the winter and keep a parka in the car during the winter even when the weather is mild.
Prudence..
I can appreciate that. I'm not near as wild and wooley as I used to be either. It takes too long to heal up these days. I can't, however, resist the temptation to find the limits of newly acquired machinary, just can't do it. I don't go out looking for the edge everytime mind you but when the opportunity presents itself, I take it provided it's reasonably safe to do so. One thing on the list for this boat is a new tri radial main with two reefing points. My current main has none.
I can appreciate that. I'm not near as wild and wooley as I used to be either. It takes too long to heal up these days. I can't, however, resist the temptation to find the limits of newly acquired machinary, just can't do it. I don't go out looking for the edge everytime mind you but when the opportunity presents itself, I take it provided it's reasonably safe to do so. One thing on the list for this boat is a new tri radial main with two reefing points. My current main has none.
I have always preached that risk and consequences
are a balancing act. For instance I know that I can walk fifty feet on a railroad rail most every try and the consequence of falling off is nil unless that rail is a hundred feet above a rocky gorge. Then the consequence of falling off that rail is deadly. The risk of capsizing a small boat in a small harbor during a gale is very high, the consequence is that you will get wet. Out on the ocean the risk remains the same but the consequence changes.
are a balancing act. For instance I know that I can walk fifty feet on a railroad rail most every try and the consequence of falling off is nil unless that rail is a hundred feet above a rocky gorge. Then the consequence of falling off that rail is deadly. The risk of capsizing a small boat in a small harbor during a gale is very high, the consequence is that you will get wet. Out on the ocean the risk remains the same but the consequence changes.
Calculator Poor
That calculator is an approximation - it does not take into account a lot of factors that will impact the real AVS number. If you feel that you need to know this, then maybe you could ask Hunter. Keel depth, bulbs on the keel, flotation effects of the freeboard and deckhouse, placement of major weights in the boat are all ignored by the simplistic calculator. The calculator is little more than a toy. A real AVS calculation by a Naval Architect involves the boats significant weights, their cg; and and analysis that uses the shape of the boat and works out center of bouyancy at each angle of heel. I'd try Hunter. OC
That calculator is an approximation - it does not take into account a lot of factors that will impact the real AVS number. If you feel that you need to know this, then maybe you could ask Hunter. Keel depth, bulbs on the keel, flotation effects of the freeboard and deckhouse, placement of major weights in the boat are all ignored by the simplistic calculator. The calculator is little more than a toy. A real AVS calculation by a Naval Architect involves the boats significant weights, their cg; and and analysis that uses the shape of the boat and works out center of bouyancy at each angle of heel. I'd try Hunter. OC
OldCat, sometimes it is enough to know if the boat
will come back up on her feet before or after you have knocked yourself unconscious on the cabin top. Whether or not the boat is unstable at 120 or 140 is purely academic. If the boat goes that far over you are going to have a mess inside and had better hope that all of your hatches were closed.
will come back up on her feet before or after you have knocked yourself unconscious on the cabin top. Whether or not the boat is unstable at 120 or 140 is purely academic. If the boat goes that far over you are going to have a mess inside and had better hope that all of your hatches were closed.
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