Licensing in Canada is a joke. Just another money grab. 36 multiple choice questions, 75% to pass. If you do it on the internet you can cheat all you want. $50 bucks and you're licensed.
And we wonder why we gat a bad rap...?
- Thread starter Maine Sail
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Do frogs have wings?
Ross, It is all relative my friend. Speed might be a big factor in either collision. At .0001 knots might not be so bad. At 12 knots either will be catastrophic. Around here we have these barges carrying phosphate ore out of Aurora down the ICW to the NC shipping port. Don't think I'd want to hit one of those or be run over from behind if it can't stop.
Ross, It is all relative my friend. Speed might be a big factor in either collision. At .0001 knots might not be so bad. At 12 knots either will be catastrophic. Around here we have these barges carrying phosphate ore out of Aurora down the ICW to the NC shipping port. Don't think I'd want to hit one of those or be run over from behind if it can't stop.
Something is not quite sitting correctly w/ me. Your post seems to insinuate that we should have done our homework about the location and circumstances of the video but the quote by the capt of the Balmoral, Ted Davies, seems to indicate that the operator of the sailboat was in error and was lucky to escape w/out serious harm.This might not be what it seems - as any of those leveling criticism could have found out, as I did, by typing 'Watchet' into Google Maps and looking at the Aerial View. http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=51.184219,-3.327956&spn=0.003073,0.010793&t=h&z=17
Or 'Watchet Harbour' into Google and reading the Pilotage information available.
Just to the right of the shot and close to the outer wall is a lock gate into the marina.
This lock is controlled by traffic lights.
It appears to me that the yacht was exiting on the green light and, being close to the sea wall, might not have been able to see the oncoming tripper boat's mast and superstructure.
On the other hand the tripper boat would have known about the lock into the marina and seen the traffic lights which should have been red. It would also have been able to see the yacht's mast and detected that it was coming out.
THAT IS WHY HE WAS STATIONARY - look carefully at the video.
I believe he was waiting for his turn to enter the harbour.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Marina Access Control [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Vessel movements through the marina lock gate are controlled by traffic light signals which are as follows: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Traffic lights facing into the harbour (sea) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]“Sea side” traffic lights consist of three red lights and three green ones. When the green lamps are illuminated vessels may proceed through the gate with caution. When the red lamps are illuminated it means that vessels shall not proceed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Traffic lights facing into the marina [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]“Marina side” traffic lights are intended to control the traffic leaving the marina into the outer harbour. They have similar form and function to those traffic lights facing “sea side”.[/FONT]
While I'm sure that the lights may not have been seen by us in the clip it is possible that the sailboat operator blew through them. Would not the commercial vessel Balmoral advised local authorities about the status of the traffic lights and who had right of way??? Capt Davies of the Balmoral says nothing to that effect and I'm wondering why not. Is there more than what meets all our eyes?
Further it does seem that the Balmoral is rolling and not making way. Is she awaiting the green light and the issue here is not that the sailboat capt proceeded but rather how close he came to the Balmoral as he exited? Open mind says perhaps the Balmoral was too close to the opening and left the sailboat little room to proceed even though sailboat had right of way. If the sailboat capt had the green light then he is not at fault and one could throw stones at the capt of the Balmoral for blocking the egress. If the sailboat capt ran a red light then he is an idiot and should get "points on his license" much like driving. Too many points and your license is suspended. Doesn't mean a person wont drive/sail after losing license but at least an attempt is made by "society" to protect others. I cant think of any thing else we as a society can do short of having big brother attached to us at all times.
My father taught me a saying that I've seen paraphrased here sorta but I'll say it my dad's way.
"You can't legislate against stupidity"
I cant throw any stones cause not only is my house made of glass but so is my sailboat. LOL To all you wooden hulled owners........... throw away.
ok guys--the hugeass ship was in channel and entering port. the sailboat was running across bow. these may not have been as close as they seem.
the redlight greenlight mebbe wasnt observed.
the redlight green light was observed and we think was closer than was. we dont know-is tooo busy for fun.
there is no right of way for a sailboat over a ship. sorry, especially in a channel. rule 9, rule of gross tonnage-whatever you want to call it...big guy wins..also there is a limit to proximity allowed to each and every incoming or outgoing ship to port......so the sailboat is waaay wrong in every and all cases , if ye really wanna push it..lol.....
there is no question of right of way--is the ship's not the sailboat. even if sailboat is under sail.
in the port, the ship will have a pilot who knows the area so the info re the lighting would be moot. the pilot knows that. and would know. if it is red to sea-which i sincerely doubt happens--then the pilot would also know. sooooooo...lol....also, ships have no brakes so--the ship has right of way .
never but never push your alleged right of way assertions. when you do that, you are in the wrong.
the redlight greenlight mebbe wasnt observed.
the redlight green light was observed and we think was closer than was. we dont know-is tooo busy for fun.
there is no right of way for a sailboat over a ship. sorry, especially in a channel. rule 9, rule of gross tonnage-whatever you want to call it...big guy wins..also there is a limit to proximity allowed to each and every incoming or outgoing ship to port......so the sailboat is waaay wrong in every and all cases , if ye really wanna push it..lol.....
there is no question of right of way--is the ship's not the sailboat. even if sailboat is under sail.
in the port, the ship will have a pilot who knows the area so the info re the lighting would be moot. the pilot knows that. and would know. if it is red to sea-which i sincerely doubt happens--then the pilot would also know. sooooooo...lol....also, ships have no brakes so--the ship has right of way .
never but never push your alleged right of way assertions. when you do that, you are in the wrong.
All I'm saying is that I somewhat agree with Donalex that if the sailboat had a green light he wasn't in the wrong. If he's cleared and comes around that wall and there's the Balmoral what were his options. His only real choice was to sneak across the bow of the Balmoral and pray he clears. To go to reverse is to slow to stop and loose stearage before he gets going again and not a great idea in that tight situation.
If he ran a red light he's a 1st class idiot put people in harms way and deserves our scorn.
As many have posted he'll get his eventually and we all pray he doesn't take down some innocent with him.
One other question.... Can someone explain the single horn blast that is sounded??? To me it sounds like the Balmoral. A single blast means pass port to port. If the Capt of the Balmoral truly did see the mast over the wall and coming out why did he not signal 5 blasts??? Or as someone else mentioned why no radio call on 16 or 13???
In the Delaware river by Philly where 2 people died it was just learned that the duck boat operator called the barge several times on the radio and got no response. That barge Capt be in deep do do as no lookout either.
If he ran a red light he's a 1st class idiot put people in harms way and deserves our scorn.
As many have posted he'll get his eventually and we all pray he doesn't take down some innocent with him.
One other question.... Can someone explain the single horn blast that is sounded??? To me it sounds like the Balmoral. A single blast means pass port to port. If the Capt of the Balmoral truly did see the mast over the wall and coming out why did he not signal 5 blasts??? Or as someone else mentioned why no radio call on 16 or 13???
In the Delaware river by Philly where 2 people died it was just learned that the duck boat operator called the barge several times on the radio and got no response. That barge Capt be in deep do do as no lookout either.
one blast is pass on one side as opposed to 2 blasts being the other side for passing--i donot remember which is which but is important. if you are on radio with them is " would you prefer i pass on the one or the two" he will answer you , if you are female. if you are male, might not...now you just have to know which is which. i think 1 is left. i think 2 is right but i donot remember. might be other way around---cpt chuck creel knows.......
sometimes when you ask them they will blow the whistle one or two times. that is same as answer. you must know which is which when you use their work area as your play space. --btw--they will answer a lady when she asks which side is one..as if she were very new at the boat thing--they will laugh for a coupla hours and you will be ok.
\5 blasts is for if you are in the way and not going to be gone by the time he figures he will be there at point of impact. they will use a single loooong blast in the same manner.
sometimes when you ask them they will blow the whistle one or two times. that is same as answer. you must know which is which when you use their work area as your play space. --btw--they will answer a lady when she asks which side is one..as if she were very new at the boat thing--they will laugh for a coupla hours and you will be ok.
\5 blasts is for if you are in the way and not going to be gone by the time he figures he will be there at point of impact. they will use a single loooong blast in the same manner.
After seeing Donelex's explanation, it becomes obvious that what we have here is another case of news reporters not having any idea about boats, and misrepresenting things. No one on the Balmoral seems agitated: they're waiting their turn.
But of course, as Mainesail suggests, we STILL get a bad rap.
But of course, as Mainesail suggests, we STILL get a bad rap.
I would note that there is a burst of smoke from the vessel entering the harbor. I suspect he is not just blipping the throttle for the fun of it. Also the stern of the vessel shifts to his port indicating prop walk in reverse.
FWIW
FWIW
...I'm sure some of you have seen this one...this guy DIDN'T make it by 5'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqKpnU8sCE
If licensing means paying a fee to get a permit to sail then you are right. But if it required demonstrating a level of competence and knowledge of the rules as it is with a drivers license it would surely remove the most blatantly incompetent. Even a drivers license doesn't preclude accidents on the road but it for sure lowers the odds of meeting idiots like this one. Owning and operating a boat is a privileged not a right.
Alan a driver license is not proof against stupidity. I regularly have people pass me on the shoulder, on a double yellow line and at intersections when I have stopped for a changing light. I guess that this is because I am a slow driver and feel that 10 over is fast enough.
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