Anchoring Question

[Franklin]

Here is a video showing why I believe in the Rocna / Manson Supreme style anchors. This guy was on a Manson Supreme..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luWJwTRkTUo

My first thoughts after watching this video is that the storm must have just started. The waves aren't that big and I can't even see the shore. I was only 1/3 of a mile at max from shore and I had 8' waves smashing into me during Ike. Now that was 100 knots of wind and they are talking about 70 knots but still, the waves should be a lot higher.

I don't doubt their report 70 knots due to the sideways spray, but I just want people to understand that those waves are not what you should expect from 70 knots when you are more then 2000 feet from shore. If you need to ride out a storm, get within 400 feet of shore before you drop the hook.

BTW: just want to say for those who haven't heard me say yet, nothing beats keeping spray out of your eyes, calming the sound of the wind (very under estimated), and keeping visability then a full inclosed motorcycle helmet, and it will protect your head just incase something bad happens. #2 thing to pack when crossing oceans.

 

[David in Sandusky]

With a good anchor, proper length of rode, and decent holding ground the anchor will reset. We have ridden through a number of fronts with big wind shifts on our claw or Danforth.

A front going through is a big event, and I always get up and go on deck to check. The only problem we experienced was a 180 degree shift in the North Channel with 20 knot SW winds shifting to 30 knots from the NE. The shift was forecast, so we anchored on the NE side of the bay. When the shift hit, the anchor dragged about 100 feet before resetting. I'm pretty sure that was because there was some bare granite it dragged over before finding some mud.

With plenty of room to the SW, the only problem would be if we hooked a snag while we were dredging the bottom before the anchor reset.

 

[sailingdog]

I’ve seen the flukes on a danforth get jammed and prevent it from resetting. This can happen in thick mud, weed or rocky bottoms... I wouldn't be so confident of the Danforth if I were you. If you can drag 100', that's about 95' too many IMHO. In many anchorages, you don't have 95' to drag safely. Also, they tend not to work very well on shorter scopes, and in many anchorages, you don't have the room to layout 8:1 scope. BTW, IMHO, anything beyond 8:1 scope is basically a waste...

With a good anchor, proper length of rode, and decent holding ground the anchor will reset. We have ridden through a number of fronts with big wind shifts on our claw or Danforth.

A front going through is a big event, and I always get up and go on deck to check. The only problem we experienced was a 180 degree shift in the North Channel with 20 knot SW winds shifting to 30 knots from the NE. The shift was forecast, so we anchored on the NE side of the bay. When the shift hit, the anchor dragged about 100 feet before resetting. I'm pretty sure that was because there was some bare granite it dragged over before finding some mud.

With plenty of room to the SW, the only problem would be if we hooked a snag while we were dredging the bottom before the anchor reset.

 

[Scott B]

With a good anchor, proper length of rode, and decent holding ground the anchor will reset. We have ridden through a number of fronts with big wind shifts on our claw or Danforth.

A front going through is a big event, and I always get up and go on deck to check. The only problem we experienced was a 180 degree shift in the North Channel with 20 knot SW winds shifting to 30 knots from the NE. The shift was forecast, so we anchored on the NE side of the bay. When the shift hit, the anchor dragged about 100 feet before resetting. I'm pretty sure that was because there was some bare granite it dragged over before finding some mud.

With plenty of room to the SW, the only problem would be if we hooked a snag while we were dredging the bottom before the anchor reset.

We were in Collins Inlet ( close to the North Channel) heading East, last summer and were watching the clouds get darker to the North around mid-day. That little voice in my head kept saying maybe we should drop the hook and wait out the rain. At Mill Lake I pulled off into a small bay and dropped anchor in 25 ft. of water, and did not back it down like I normally do with reverse. I also only let out 100 ft. of chain and rode or 3.7:1 scope, after all it was just some rain and I didn't want to wrestle the anchor out to continue on. No sooner had we zipped up the enclosure that the front hit us with 35 - 40 knots continuous winds and shifted us around 110 deg. within minutes. Later I checked the wind speed log and saw max. gusts to 52 knots. The wind was blowing us over to a 15 deg. heel with each gust.

Not only did the anchor reset within feet, but it dug in hard and did not budge at all. If we had dragged 100 ft. we would have been onto shore and rocks.


Edit: It was a Rocna anchor

 

[Franklin]

Danforths do have a history of dragging in a wind shift and I've experienced a couple myself. After the second time I told myself "It's time to get that Bullwagga". Never had a problem since.

I'm not saying Danforths are always going to drag on a shift, but they do it more often then any other anchor. When they are set, the hold like no other.

 

[Ross]

Weren't the Danforth anchors developed during world war 2 for landing craft. I never thought that they were intended as long term anchors for boats that did not have a full time anchor watch.

 

[Mike B]

Ross, looks like it was re-invented in 1939. Apparently the Chinese had a version about 4000 years ago. "The very popular Danforth (a trademark) or lightweight anchor, invented in 1939 by R. S. Danforth. In this design the stock is at the base of the flukes, where the Chinese had it about 4,000 years ago, but arranged so that the whole thing folds flat for stowage. [18-pound]"
Mike

 

[Napa Ed]

Right or wrong, I sleep with an oversized danforth. I also have a claw but always throw the danforth over the side first.

Like "newly anonymous" mentions, sailors at the 37th parallel move around during the night. I just spent Saturday night out at Bolinas and my gps map was several circles in 14 hours.
I moved about 120 feet all told but that doesn't mean much; I had 120' rode out. I don't know what they paved Bolinas with but I was pleasantly surprised when the anchor came up looking like it had just been washed. I was wearing boots and rubber gloves expecting mud but it was nice and shiny with an easy release. Highly recommend Bolinas when wind conditions (direction) permit.

 

[Benny]

Danforth was the first design in anchors that appealed to pleasure crafts as it was light and easily stored flat. I relied on them through the years and have my share of stories about dragging them. There are now much better and more forgiving designs. With a danforth you had to make sure it had set well and then give it ample scope. If not set well they are prone to breaking free from lateral forces and its ability to reset quickly is highly questionable. We have now boats with different hull shapes and rigs that like to sail at anchor and I don't know why the manufacturers still equip them with danforths when they are probably the worst anchor for those new designs. We now pack a plow and a claw. They have good lateral holding, both reset very quickly and the claw design works well with short scope in crowded anchorages.

 

[newly anonymous]

for my part, I prefer "experienced" to "sanguine."

The part which worries me at anchor is not mine so much as the guys around me which makes me question why anyone would be so sanguine as some here seem to be..

Over the course of the past decade I've probably averaged at least 30 nights per year anchoring out. I've never yet had a boat drag down on me, and I've never yet had an anchor drag after dark. During the 80's, when GPS anchor alarms became a possibility, I used to set one every night. It was a nifty new toy, and I was young enough back then not to be bothered when it woke me up unnecessarily. During the 90's I trained myself only to use one when I was in a precarious situation. Since the turn of the century, I really haven't bothered.

I'll never forget a yacht club cruiseout to Drakes Bay, maybe ten years ago, when gale-force winds picked up in the middle of the night. Everyone except me posted anchor watches, and they began to chat among themselves on the VHF. One dear friend became so concerned that I was still asleep he finally turned on his mega-spotlight, shining it through my port holes to wake me up. This worked, unfortunately. I got on the radio to find out what was wrong, and was told, "We thought you'd want to post an anchor watch like everyone else has." I calmly replied, "If I begin to drag, I can do so for three or four miles before I need to worry about an anchor watch. Wake me up then."

While on the hook I generally wake up once per night to answer the bladder alarm. You'll be happy to know that I generally go up on deck or a few moments, not only to avail myself of the outboard plumbing but to give the neighborhood a good scan. Should any of the rest of you be holding anchor watches at that point, I apologize in advance for whatever it is you find yourselves watching.

 

[Maine Sail]

Over the course of the past decade I've probably averaged at least 30 nights per year anchoring out. I've never yet had a boat drag down on me

Lucky (say it like Napoleon Dynamite)! I wish I could say the same but we see multiple drag events ever summer. The worst one of this past summer was this guy in relatively light winds running about a 3:1 scope on a CQR.. With good technique this NEVER should have happened, even with a CQR..

 

[Boompa]

Yes... if you shift 180 degrees you will likely drag. But it will be slight if you have 'the correct' anchor. We were in a silty bottom bay on Martha's Vinyard 2 summers ago and dealing with a changing current. We dragged w my 35 lb CQR for most of the night. The boat is 9,500 lbs. I got some good advice from some of the sailors here and bought a 15K Rocna. It works!

 

[Maine Sail]

We dragged w my 35 lb CQR for most of the night. The boat is 9,500 lbs.

9500 Lbs dragging a 35 CQR is not out of the question in a soft bottom or even a hard one that it won't penetrate..

I got some good advice from some of the sailors here and bought a 15K Rocna. It works!

Yes they do!! The Rocna, Manson Supreme and many other new generation anchors do perform better than many of the older designs. Bruce anchors are good re-setters but their holding power to weigh ratio is low comparitively speaking.. Glad you like your Rocna..

 

[Franklin]

...and bought a 15K Rocna. It works!

Oh yeah....bullwagga, bullwagga, bullwagga


Couldn't resist

 

[David in Sandusky]

The anchor that dragged in the North Cahnnel was a claw with a 7:1 scope.

I hear the doubts about the Danforth. But Practical Sailor has done a number of tests, including resetting after a shift of various anchor designs, and the Danforth did as well or better than the other designs in sand or mud - that's what we have in Lake Erie.

We have never had to back off 7:1 scope in our large anchorages in the Lake Erie Islands, or ports. But I was very glad to have 5:1 on an all chain rode in the San Juans where the anchorages were often smaller, and more crowded.

Mostly we use our plow, but I am considering shifting to the Danforth, just for the weight reduction. Without tides we have fewer major shifts here than in some areas.

Oh, yeah - we sleep very well at anchor - we love it.

 

[Prime Time]

Wind shifts

Wind shifts and current changes are quite common! IMHO dragging when properly anchored is not. There is little substitute for plenty of scope and an oversized anchor. I have a 25 lbs Hi-tensile Danforth for my Mirage 27. I set with a minimum of 8 to 1 line, 10 feet of chain. I sleep very well....

On my dads Bristol 40, 35 lbs CQR, same scope and line set up. He anchors out all the time for last 37 yrs in winds up to 60 knots. Never dragged once properly set. DIG IT IN with the engine in reverse!