Anchoring in Public Waters-

[TimCup]

I didn't want to hijack another thread, and I've got some questions about anchoring so here goes:

I was under the impression that, by federal law, you can anchor in public waters as long as:

It's done safely,
doesn't block traffic or in designated lane;
not used as a liveaboard.

We have about a dozen boats anchored here in downtown St. Pete in a basin between a luxury hotel and "The Pier", a structure that juts out 1/4 mile into Tampa Bay.

If you can anchor there, and I think you can, what are the rules regarding use of an anchor light? These boats are within 200 feet of shore, most are unlit- a violation of the proposed law clearly.

Anyone well versed in this stuff?


cup

 

[Mike B]

Unless it's been changed there's no need to have your anchor light on if you're in a designated anchorage. One clearly marked on a chart or other aid to navigation.

 

[larryw]

According to federal law, no one can impede on your right to traverse navigable waters, and that includes anchoring, but many cities have passed ordinances limiting anchoring and the feds have shown a disinclination to contest it; so, cities can do pretty much anything they want. If you are in a federally designated anchorage, you don't need to ask anyone anything, just drop your hook in a safe manner and you don't even need to show a light. however, if it's not a fed. desig. anchorage, you take your chances. Most communities allow 72 hours in any one place. Some cities require you to get prior permission (San Diego). The 72 hour limit is meant to discourage boat gypsies, usually those who are using a boat as cheap housing. It's on the rise everywhere.

 

[sailingdog]

I believe Mike is correct about the anchor light and dayshape NOT being required if you're anchored within the boundaries of a designated anchorage area, as shown on navigation charts, but IMHO, they are still highly recommended.

If the local municipality has installed a mooring field, you can't anchor where you will interfere with the moored boats.

BTW, if you are ever asked by the authorities, you are a full-time cruiser in transit, not a liveaboard. The term liveaboard has become very negative in many areas, which are plagued by near-derelict boats being used as cheap housing, much to the dismay of local taxpayers.

 

[Benny]

Who is in charge?

Tim, I believe the Vinoy Basin is under the jurisdiction of the City of St. Pete as it is not a federally designated anchorage. It is also my understanding that the overseeing of the Basin falls under the tasks assigned to the administration of the Municipal Marina. Wether they are given the adequate tools to do the job or not would be a question to ask before passing judgement. I have noticed that as recently as 2-3 years ago the basin has been housing some liveaboards and permanently anchored boats includying a couple of derelicts washed ashore. We have to be careful and not create an uproar that may eventually hurt sailing in the area. I'm sure there are plenty of condo owners in the area that don't sail and may like to see the Basin free of any anchored boats. St. Pete has a long standing reputation as being boater friendly and the local economy benefits from it. Perhaps the boats anchored in the Basin represent this tolerant attitude. There used to be a sign indicating that anyone intending to remain anchored overnight had to check in by radio with the Municipal Marina. I think such a sign and having the Marina respond to calls keeping a log of boats granted permission to anchor would go a long ways to maintaining proper usage. Perhaps a dicreet inquiry with some city commisioners may be the way to go.

 

[sailaway78]

Federal Law

Federal is I believe that unless a designated anchorage, anchor light/dayshape is required. What is reality, I don't know. I would think that in an area such as you describe, the coasties pretty well leave it up to the locals, who seem to consider boaters as a contributor to the city coffers. I have run every inch of coast line between Long Island, and the Mexican border, and don't believe I have ever seen a single day signal on an anchored boat. So, reality is, some are certainly not enforced. While I don't anchor much during daylight hours I do on occasion, and do not have any kind of day signal on board. I do display a proper anchor light at night.

 

[sailingdog]

For clarification on when anchor lights and shapes are required, see this WEBSITE

 

[Richard Shelby]

Here's the law in Alabama. Basically it says that all water is state property and you can not anchor for "an indefinite period" without riparian rights. That means you must own adjacent land. I got a ticket in a popular hurricane hole for anchoring out during hurricane season. Lights or day shapes are not the issue...you simply can NOT anchor. The length of time is not specified and is therefore open to interpretation of the marine police. It's arbitrary and capricious.




2204.
08 Vessel Mooring Restrictions. Vessel operators
without riparian access rights are prohibited from mooring on
stateowned submerged water bottoms adjacent to corresponding
upland locations for any period of time beyond any immediate
water transit needs necessitating a temporary cessation in such
transit. Indefinite mooring of such vessels shall be prohibited.
The penalty for the violation of this rule is as provided in
§914,
Code of Ala. 1975.
Author: James D. Martin
Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §9212.
History: New Rule: August 3, 1998; effective September 8, 1998.
PENALTY: As provided in §914,
Code of Ala. 1975.

 

[sailingdog]

A good lawyer could argue that hurricane season was something that required "cessation in transit". Hurricane season is a defined period of time...

Here's the law in Alabama. Basically it says that all water is state property and you can not anchor for "an indefinite period" without riparian rights. That means you must own adjacent land. I got a ticket in a popular hurricane hole for anchoring out during hurricane season. Lights or day shapes are not the issue...you simply can NOT anchor. The length of time is not specified and is therefore open to interpretation of the marine police. It's arbitrary and capricious.




2204.
08 Vessel Mooring Restrictions. Vessel operators
without riparian access rights are prohibited from mooring on
stateowned submerged water bottoms adjacent to corresponding
upland locations for any period of time beyond any immediate
water transit needs necessitating a temporary cessation in such
transit. Indefinite mooring of such vessels shall be prohibited.
The penalty for the violation of this rule is as provided in
§914,
Code of Ala. 1975.
Author: James D. Martin
Statutory Authority: Code of Ala. 1975, §9212.
History: New Rule: August 3, 1998; effective September 8, 1998.
PENALTY: As provided in §914,
Code of Ala. 1975.

 

[TimCup]

Benny, you were exactly right about

the location. I wasn't aware the marina had anything to do with the Vinoy Basin, but what you say makes sense.

Some of the boats anchored there are nice, some I can't believe still float. I have no doubt there are a few gypsies living there... as a matter of fact a local "character" approached me this weekend, asking me about the laws on living on a boat there.That's the reason for this post. Appearances may be deceiving, but it looked like he was trying to upgrade from a park bench...

Unlike cars, many boats are similar in color, and they don't rust. From 100 feet, to a nonboater, they all look okay I guess. The snobs in those million dollar condos must think they add romance to the view, as they're not complaining (except about the loud noise of the St Pete Gran Prix!).

cup

 

[TimCup]

And SD-

I'm not sure you even need a good lawyer! That exemption in the statute describes a hurricane to a "T".


cup

 

[Rich Stidger]

How can you tell if it is a federal anchoring area?

If you are in a federally designated anchorage, you don't need to ask anyone anything, just drop your hook in a safe manner and you don't even need to show a light. however, if it's not a fed. desig. anchorage, you take your chances.

On my charts I can see areas that are designated as anchorages, but I don't ever recall a federal classification vs a state or local anchorage.

Excuse my ignorance, but how do you tell the difference?

As for a light being required, I agree that it is not required in a designated anchorage, but I think it is prudent to run one anyway. Vessels entering after dark should well expect to encounter anchored boats, but a light will confirm your actual location.

 

[Ron20324]

Tim, you must have read in your newspapers, if not the sailing magazines, that though regulation of the waters falls under federal auspicies, some Florida local governments (Sarasota/Bradenton comes to mind) are trying to hijack control and dictate policy to their own liking. They want to say when or where, for how long or for how short or, as is the problem, that you can't anchor at all.

 

[Roger Long]

A good lawyer could argue that hurricane season was something that required "cessation in transit". Hurricane season is a defined period of time...

It also says "adjacent to corresponding uplands". I think that means the state has to own the shorefront. In other words, they don't want you using your boat as a camper at state parks.

 

[Benny]

Rich most federal designated anchorages are for the use of commercial ships and pilots and are usually located in open waters making their use unsuitable, unatractive and unsafe for small pleasure crafts. The areas are usually found near large port cities or Bay entrances; they are published in the US Coast Pilot and additions and revisions will appear in the Notice to Mariners.

 

[Benny]

Tim, I was looking up some of the city ordinances for St. Pete and located the following;

Regulated Anchorage Area
City Code 7-129 (a) (b) (c) and 7-147

All vessels upon anchoring in the North Yacht Basin must immediately contact City of St. Petersburg Municipal Marina (727) 893-7329 or VHF 16/68 and register with the Marina.
Anchorage of any watercraft shall not exceed seven 24 hour periods in any calendar month.
At all times that a watercraft is anchored in the North Yacht Basin, the master, owner or operator shall be living aboard the watercraft.
Anchoring is prohibited during tropical depresion, tropical storm and or Hurricane.

I was surprised about the requirement for the captain to live aboard but it is just for 7 days and it is to insure the boat is in transit and not just moored there. It is obvious that the regulations are not being followed by boaters nor enforced by the City. You may be right about about all boats looking attractive from a distance but those two half sunk boats I'd seen about a month ago would look like trash from a mile away. The electric boats rental on the south side of the basin were denied a permit to operate a water taxi to and from anchored boats although they are allowed to operate a dingui dock at $5 a day. It is probably a case of the right hand don't know what the left is doing. The Marina at the Vinoy Hotel has reopened for business and I'm sure the City will like to keep their star tennant happy and perhaps they will request that regs be enforced.

 

[Chuckbear]

According to federal law, no one can impede on your right to traverse navigable waters, and that includes anchoring, but many cities have passed ordinances limiting anchoring and the feds have shown a disinclination to contest it; so, cities can do pretty much anything they want. If you are in a federally designated anchorage, you don't need to ask anyone anything, just drop your hook in a safe manner and you don't even need to show a light. however, if it's not a fed. desig. anchorage, you take your chances. Most communities allow 72 hours in any one place. Some cities require you to get prior permission (San Diego). The 72 hour limit is meant to discourage boat gypsies, usually those who are using a boat as cheap housing. It's on the rise everywhere.

The federal government, a long time ago ceded the regulations of waterways to the states and the states have made regulations and in some cases turned over the management of waterways to municipalities. So cities, counties and states can and do regulate anchoring in their jurisdiction. To get the real scoop on what is happening in Florida including the Sarasota and St. Petersburg area go to http://www.cruisersnet.net/western_florida/anchoring_rights/ since the state is finally putting together a uniform set of regulations and will finally put some teeth in the enforcement with severe penalties and fines for cities that do not comply. It will allow anchoring of cruising boats while limiting or eliminating the derelicts that fill so many anchorages. Chuck

 

[TimCup]

Ron, the responses here are EXACTLY why I get

confused!! Half say the federal government has control, half say the state and another half say the cities!!

Yes, it was my belief the feds controlled the waters; I do remember cities (Sarasota, and locally Gulfport) that tried to ban anchoring in non-designated areas, only to be shot down in court. But based on the legislation referred to in one of the posts, it appears that while the cities have no authority, the state does and is enacting law to tighten that control...

The legislation referred to had wording that was recently changed, and now there are some boating groups that support it, but why support anything that limits our rights? I don't think the state will lose in court the way the cities have...

Anyone else confused??


cup

ps- If you tell me I'm just too stupid to understand, save your breath- I'm already married.

 

[Chuckbear]

Tim, In the case of Floriduh, the regulations are going to be there and doing nothing will only make the matters worse. By supporting the regulations as they now stand we will not be in a position where there are different regulations for every town we pass through and they could eliminate the right to anchor at all. The US federal courts have over and over upheld the rights of the states to regulate their waterways. All the talk about it being illegal under federal law is totally incorrect. The cities that have lost their court battles on anchoring did so because the anchoring regulations were in violation of STATE LAW which says the cities can not enact anchoring regulations stricter that those imposed by the state. And the state says that the anchoring regulations will be the same for the entire state, city waterways included. As a matter of fact, the cities do not have the right to regulate anchoring, but the state does. The new regulations, although we would prefer none, are better than we would get with no regulations at all from the state level. Forget the federal government, that have nothing to say in the matter. So it boils down to taking the best deal you can get or suffer the consequences. Chuck

 

[Ron20324]

confused!! Half say the federal government has control, half say the state and another half say the cities!!

ps- If you tell me I'm just too stupid to understand, save your breath- I'm already married.

If you tell me I'm too smart, it's only because I divorced the landlubber:dance: Ron

Dang- I had a magazine article on this very subject laying on the dining table for a month, but threw it away when I cleared the table to varnish. Yes, it's confusing and ever-changing. My recent memory was there was a court case in which some boater purposely violated the city(?) law about anchoring just for the purpose of taking the city to court. Boaters won the case, but then some other city ignored the verdict and therin lies the rub. Seems every city wants to control the waterways- by saying anchorages are not waterways. Go figure.