Anchoring Etiquette Clashes with Local Culture
- Thread starter Kings Gambit
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Um...LEOs are not all alike but most of us find the term pig to be offensive. In a time where a lot of LEOs are being ambushed in record numbers it is not good to even joke about this. Remember that most of us in the profession put our lives on the line everyday that we are out there to protect and serve. I have been in my career for over 16 years and I can assure you that the amount of sacrifices that my family and I have made have been extensive. I can never remember a time in my career where we have had so much pressure and attention on our jobs. Everything we do is being looked at by our departments and by the public (Imagine that you are a secretary and your boss looks over your shoulder at every keystroke you make).
FYI....In August in the US, so far, 16 police officers have died in the line of duty. 1 particular one was ambushed while pumping gas.
FYI....In August in the US, so far, 16 police officers have died in the line of duty. 1 particular one was ambushed while pumping gas.
I sail out of Chanel Islands harbor, and have anchored at Santa Cruz Island multiple times, there are many anchorages there that are two anchor anchorages - these anchorages get pretty crowded toward the weekends, sounds like maybe you were at Little Scorpian, local knowledge is that this is a two anchor anchorage. Yellowbanks and Smugglers are single anchor. The other sailor is absolutely correct, why wouldn't you just deploy the stern anchor and let the others coming in the next day enjoy the anchorage also, seems selfish to me but then I work during the week and am only able to get out on the weekends so can relate to the other sailor pretty well. By the way Ventura is not really out of the local area for Santa Cruz island it is the closest island and anchorage to the harbor, ask around on your dock or any of the local cruising guides as to which anchorages are one or two anchors - when I sail I believe it is my obligation to gain knowledge about the areas where I do not usually cruise particularly when it comes to anchorages or moorings
Retrieval Line
We anchor a lot during events and will put a retrieval line on our plow anchor. I will attach a fender to the retrieval line so it sits on top of the anchor delineating our radius. This works about 50% of the time in keeping the yahoos away.
We anchor a lot during events and will put a retrieval line on our plow anchor. I will attach a fender to the retrieval line so it sits on top of the anchor delineating our radius. This works about 50% of the time in keeping the yahoos away.
That you even carry a "loud hailer" on board your boat tells me enough to know which of the two boats I'd rather share a moorage with. Holler at lots of other boaters with it do you? Very tactful, must make folks see things your way every time. Even in jest, wanting to "swim over and cut his line" is a disturbing reaction. Stern anchors, stern ties, are common in many confined areas popular to boaters. Would you have continued on screaming after another dozen boats showed up and set two anchors? Should one cigar sucking crybaby with a hailer lay claim to the entire bay? C'mon! With so many of us out there, cooperation, and flexibility should be carried on board every day. Even at anchor, when conditions change, change with them. Lose the hailer and buy yourself that second anchor. It could make you a happier guy!
I did that for a while until one night our boat drifted over the anchor float during a tide swing. I heard the little line to the float snap which kept me awake the rest of the night. In the morning we picked up anchor as I looked for the float. Nowhere to be seen. Put it in forward and the float with 10 feet of line drifts out from the stern of the boat. That could have been a PITA had it wrapped the prop.
All U Get
Lorin, is your icon that of a Cro-magnum humanoid? That "tells me enough to know" that you're a dinosaur.
Some "mariners" like to deploy all manner of devices that make them the masters of their anchorage and they like to float in judgement of all the other "weekend warriors" around them, "Tsk, Tsk, ... they should have 2 anchors out, just like us, because ...".
And whose the guy with the deadly arsenal who likes to threaten and intimidate other boaters? Scarry! The only folks with deadly weapons in Rodney Bay are typically those with easy access and apparently no restrictions ... you know.
That's very nervy of another boater to anchor in close proximity and then instruct how you should be anchored. It reminds me of our experience in Rodney Bay, St. Lucia when a boat (a cat, in a huge, mostly empty anchorage) pulled up within 20' of us, dropped anchor, hung out fenders to keep our boats from colliding, then dinghied to Customs.
I was flabbergasted. It looked as if I had anchored too close and the other boater was making that same point, as if I were a fault. What to do? What to do? We could hear their conversation. I deployed fenders as well. Two boats, 5 feet apart at times, with fenders deployed between them, in the vast Caribbean Sea. They were gone within the next couple of hours but not without tacit anguish and gnashing of teeth on our part.
Some "mariners" like to deploy all manner of devices that make them the masters of their anchorage and they like to float in judgement of all the other "weekend warriors" around them, "Tsk, Tsk, ... they should have 2 anchors out, just like us, because ...".
And whose the guy with the deadly arsenal who likes to threaten and intimidate other boaters? Scarry! The only folks with deadly weapons in Rodney Bay are typically those with easy access and apparently no restrictions ... you know.
That's very nervy of another boater to anchor in close proximity and then instruct how you should be anchored. It reminds me of our experience in Rodney Bay, St. Lucia when a boat (a cat, in a huge, mostly empty anchorage) pulled up within 20' of us, dropped anchor, hung out fenders to keep our boats from colliding, then dinghied to Customs.
I was flabbergasted. It looked as if I had anchored too close and the other boater was making that same point, as if I were a fault. What to do? What to do? We could hear their conversation. I deployed fenders as well. Two boats, 5 feet apart at times, with fenders deployed between them, in the vast Caribbean Sea. They were gone within the next couple of hours but not without tacit anguish and gnashing of teeth on our part.
I used to think the anchor float was a great idea until one time in a crowded anchorage my boat drifted over the float and the keel snagged the float line. As we continued to drift the float line tripped/released the anchor. And kept releasing it!
Fortunately I noticed right away and dove over the side and cut the line. Clean up later, set anchor now! I've never used a float since. If things go wrong I'd rather lose my anchor than my boat.
Just curious, do all you sailors only anchor with other sailboats? Here in Maine we always have power boats anchor as well, and they definitely do not swing the same way as keel boats. I've had them bumping me, even on moorings in an approved mooring field almost in front of the harbormasters office. We do have 10 ft. tides so the tidal currents often move keel boats more than the wind. And I do have some dings on my boats. I don't think I ran my own transom into anything!
The tide's only a foot or so in the Windward Islands. I think we have to have a little slack in our floating anchor indicator and of course, we're always on watch, 24/7. I always dive the anchor and reset if it's not to my liking.
I'm a regular in this area and I know KG is too because I've seen them out there plenty as well. Naturally, you're following "regular" anchoring etiquette--first in sets the rules and everyone else follows. That being said, especially on the Nat'l Park Side (read: crowded, potentially) of Santa Cruz Island, there are local rules that most people follow. So, if as I suspect you were in Little Scorp's, then I'd agree that your available stern anchor should have been deployed. If it were Smugglers or Yellowbanks one hook is fine most any time. But little Scorpion's doesn't have that kind of swinging room and you'll shut-out the whole anchorage. It's not uncommon at Little Scorp's for the first-ins to swing on one hook and later change to a bow/stern arrangement as other boats arrive.
Entitlement attitudes are always a drag. No matter who is "right"
Entitlement attitudes are always a drag. No matter who is "right"
Anchoring Etiquette Clashes with Local Culture?
There is no such thing.
Anchoring etiquette is doing what the locals do.
If you are going to a new spot/area, find out before you go. If you get there first and later find out you did it wrong, change. In popular anchorage, being 'first one there' gives you no rights to 'spread out'.
There is no such thing.
Anchoring etiquette is doing what the locals do.
If you are going to a new spot/area, find out before you go. If you get there first and later find out you did it wrong, change. In popular anchorage, being 'first one there' gives you no rights to 'spread out'.
I'm not sure if the numbers are correct about the number of police shot, neither am I sure of the number of people shot by police in questionable circumstances. I will say that police are the first ones to inform you they are police when they're on shaky ground (not job related).
1- It points out the futility of calling the police. The cops will always give the "nod" to a brother cop. If you're in an accident with a cop, you know who's going to be at fault, no matter the circumstances. You called the Park Rangers and got no response, correct?
2- It also says "I'm armed". Definitely a tacit (or not so tacit) threat.
I'm not sure I've ever met a group with such a feeling of entitlement to do as they please ("Hey, I'm a member of AARP! Move your anchor!" I'm sure that would work, huh?).
And "Yes" I know there are good ones (my Nephew is an outstanding example) but so many are self-righteous jack wagons, that they make it hard to remember.
1- It points out the futility of calling the police. The cops will always give the "nod" to a brother cop. If you're in an accident with a cop, you know who's going to be at fault, no matter the circumstances. You called the Park Rangers and got no response, correct?
2- It also says "I'm armed". Definitely a tacit (or not so tacit) threat.
I'm not sure I've ever met a group with such a feeling of entitlement to do as they please ("Hey, I'm a member of AARP! Move your anchor!" I'm sure that would work, huh?).
And "Yes" I know there are good ones (my Nephew is an outstanding example) but so many are self-righteous jack wagons, that they make it hard to remember.
Anchoring etiquette, You did nothing wrong is anchoring the way you did. But now that you know the peculiarities of that anchorage socially speaking and since the other skipper offered to help you set a stern anchor it would dampen any chance of a "range war" if you took him up on his offer. His explanation sounded reasonable for his request for a second anchor from you. Sometimes the best course is to park your ego and go along to get along.
Fair winds,
Tom
Fair winds,
Tom
"Everybody's armed" is the safest way to deal with confrontation, I agree.
I do find it amusing to compare a secretaries key strokes to a policeman's trigger pulls. Several of the cops I know seem to want the body cameras...just makes sense for the protection of both sides.
"Who watches the Guardians?"
I do find it amusing to compare a secretaries key strokes to a policeman's trigger pulls. Several of the cops I know seem to want the body cameras...just makes sense for the protection of both sides.
"Who watches the Guardians?"
I have my boat in Channel Islands Harbor and have anchored at Smugglers too many times over the years and have only used my stern anchor on one occasion where the wind was coming off the island and at a 90 degree angle to the swell. I used the stern anchor to keep me into the swell. I have stayed in Smugglers on weekends with 70+ boats on at least 3 occasions and have never seen more than a few boats on 2 anchors. I know the "sweet spot" you are referring to and have been in that spot many times. No one ever said anything about a stern anchor or acted as if it were a problem. Some guys are jerks and think just because they have been coming out there for years they have some sort of entitlement. As a famous comedian says: There's no cure for stupid.
Just for clarification, KG: Just what anchorage are we talking about? Smugglers? Scorpion? Your original post refers only to "an anchorage at the east end of Santa Cruz Island."
Ignorance
It is just plain igorance to violate the etiquette that is standard throughout the free world. The first boat in the anchorage has the prime position and others are required to keep their distance and inquire as to how much rode the other boater has our so as to swing the same and not collide. Creation of specific rules for an anchorage is childish and dangerous. People who do not anchor regularly have some idea that is not akin to the rules of civil behavior.
Usually, when entering a new anchorage, I ask whoever is there how much rode he has out and I stay a long way away from him, both for his privacy and safety. I expect others to do the same. I anchor, on average, 200 days per year and rarely encounter rude boaters who violate anchoring etiquette. Recently, I observed a fellow boater who simply put out all his fenders along the side the offending boater was on and took pictures of the other boat from his vessel and dinghy to be sure to have a visual record should there be a problem. When I spoke with him later, he told me that he also logged the time he arrived and when the offending boat arrived. The offending boat got the message and moved to a less offending positon before any damage occured.
No yelling or screaming or confrontation of any kind. A simple solution.
Jim
It is just plain igorance to violate the etiquette that is standard throughout the free world. The first boat in the anchorage has the prime position and others are required to keep their distance and inquire as to how much rode the other boater has our so as to swing the same and not collide. Creation of specific rules for an anchorage is childish and dangerous. People who do not anchor regularly have some idea that is not akin to the rules of civil behavior.
Usually, when entering a new anchorage, I ask whoever is there how much rode he has out and I stay a long way away from him, both for his privacy and safety. I expect others to do the same. I anchor, on average, 200 days per year and rarely encounter rude boaters who violate anchoring etiquette. Recently, I observed a fellow boater who simply put out all his fenders along the side the offending boater was on and took pictures of the other boat from his vessel and dinghy to be sure to have a visual record should there be a problem. When I spoke with him later, he told me that he also logged the time he arrived and when the offending boat arrived. The offending boat got the message and moved to a less offending positon before any damage occured.
No yelling or screaming or confrontation of any kind. A simple solution.
Jim
Anchorage
uote=Kings Gambit;1236196]So, my wife and I sail into an anchorage at the eastern end of Santa Cruz Island, which is a National Park. There are a couple of yachts already anchored there on a single hook, one of which appears to have sailed down from British Columbia. We take a spot a respectable distance from each, drop the hook and spend the night. All is well. The next day the two yachts depart leaving us alone in the anchorage; it's Wednesday. The following day, Thursday, a guy and his wife sailing in a Catalina 34 arrive around noon. He putts around me a couple of times fairly close, but says nothing. He arrives upwind of us & slightly to port, near a shallow reef offering a nice vista of the anchorage area ahead, and drops his hook. Our depth is about 25' and I have about 110' of ground tackle out. By the time he drops back to set he's within my swinging radius. No problem until he starts rowing out a stern anchor. I hail him and advise that he's setting inside my radius, and that when the wind changes to east as it does nearly every morning out there, I could swing into him. He responds to me: "Put out a stern anchor!" This "exchange" goes on for a while but he's actually ignoring me until he's anchored by the bow & stern and resting in his cockpit. I then pull out my loud hailer so I'm sure he can hear me being up wind and advise him that he had created a potentially hazardous situation that might cause damage to our boats. He ignores me with a dismissive gesture.
Some time later he's out in the dinghy; I'm in the cockpit with a cigar--so I probably appear "calmed down." He comes over, introduces himself, and offers to put out my stern anchor (which is attached to the stern rail) and help me pick it up. I told him I'd like it better if he re-anchored outside my radius. That I have "priority" here and it's his responsibility to stay clear of me; not the other way around, and that I'm sure he knows that. He responds "You're in the sweet spot. You're keeping others from enjoying this side of the anchorage by requiring too much [swinging] room; this is a popular anchorage." I look around--"Sir--there's nobody in here but you and me!" "Well, there'll be more when the weekend arrives. That's the way we do things here, we all get along." [The hailing port on my boat is outside of the local area.] I reply, "Sir--this is a NATIONAL PARK; when we arrived there was a Canadian boat in here--now how would he or I know it's the culture here to deploy a stern anchor?" He said: "I've been coming here for more than 20 years--that's my traditional spot up there, and I'm not moving!
So what's the solution--what would you do??[/quote]
uote=Kings Gambit;1236196]So, my wife and I sail into an anchorage at the eastern end of Santa Cruz Island, which is a National Park. There are a couple of yachts already anchored there on a single hook, one of which appears to have sailed down from British Columbia. We take a spot a respectable distance from each, drop the hook and spend the night. All is well. The next day the two yachts depart leaving us alone in the anchorage; it's Wednesday. The following day, Thursday, a guy and his wife sailing in a Catalina 34 arrive around noon. He putts around me a couple of times fairly close, but says nothing. He arrives upwind of us & slightly to port, near a shallow reef offering a nice vista of the anchorage area ahead, and drops his hook. Our depth is about 25' and I have about 110' of ground tackle out. By the time he drops back to set he's within my swinging radius. No problem until he starts rowing out a stern anchor. I hail him and advise that he's setting inside my radius, and that when the wind changes to east as it does nearly every morning out there, I could swing into him. He responds to me: "Put out a stern anchor!" This "exchange" goes on for a while but he's actually ignoring me until he's anchored by the bow & stern and resting in his cockpit. I then pull out my loud hailer so I'm sure he can hear me being up wind and advise him that he had created a potentially hazardous situation that might cause damage to our boats. He ignores me with a dismissive gesture.
Some time later he's out in the dinghy; I'm in the cockpit with a cigar--so I probably appear "calmed down." He comes over, introduces himself, and offers to put out my stern anchor (which is attached to the stern rail) and help me pick it up. I told him I'd like it better if he re-anchored outside my radius. That I have "priority" here and it's his responsibility to stay clear of me; not the other way around, and that I'm sure he knows that. He responds "You're in the sweet spot. You're keeping others from enjoying this side of the anchorage by requiring too much [swinging] room; this is a popular anchorage." I look around--"Sir--there's nobody in here but you and me!" "Well, there'll be more when the weekend arrives. That's the way we do things here, we all get along." [The hailing port on my boat is outside of the local area.] I reply, "Sir--this is a NATIONAL PARK; when we arrived there was a Canadian boat in here--now how would he or I know it's the culture here to deploy a stern anchor?" He said: "I've been coming here for more than 20 years--that's my traditional spot up there, and I'm not moving!
So what's the solution--what would you do??[/quote]
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