anchor

[BarryL]

Hello,I need a new anchor for my 1986 Newport 28. The boat weighsabout 7500 lbs. I don't anchor often, don't cruise anywhere,and really only need to anchor to each lunch, swim, etc.I found this at westmarine.com:14 lb Super Hooker Anchor PackageAffordable package includes anchor, 100' of 3/8'' nylon line with thimble, 6' of 1/4'' vinyl-coated galvanized chain and two 5/16'' shackles. Anchor features wide flukes, a fully welded crown and hot-dip galvanizing.$79.99Any reason not to buy this?Thanks,Barry

 

[Bill18593]

Is that the best price?

That seems a little high. Have you tried other sources? Sailnet? Defender?

 

[Ron D]

anchoring

Have a book for you - Staying Put! The Art of Anchoring by Brian Fagan I bought mine used Barnes and Noble good info. especially if your going to anchor over night - weekends etc.

 

[Gord May]

You get what you pay for ...

The “Super Hooker” has LESS holding power than other Fluke Anchors (according to the WEST ad’). It IS cheap.Vinyl-coated chain is a poor choice for an anchor rode.High quality 3/8" Three-Strand Nylon is barely adequate for your boat - I don’t expect this rode to be particularly high quality.A 14# (Danforth) Fluke style anchor is generally regarded as an adequate “Lunch Hook” for a moderate displacement 28 footer. I’d much rather see you get an 18 - 20 Lb Steel , or a 13 - 15 Lb Aluminum anchor (ie: Fortress).I suspect you are loath to spend what it costs to have a decent anchor assembly, and merely wish some reassurance that this cheap choice won’t prove disastrous. Someone else will have to reassure you.Gord

 

[D]

Banned Phrases

Gord. The advice you gave on the anchor is probably very good advice. However, there are two phrases which should be banned from the English Language. They are "You get what you pay for" and "Any job worth doing, is worth doing right". These phrases become an excuse to avoid making informed decisions. Vendors, who sell over priced material, love these phrases. You don't always get what you are paying for and, in many cases, you get get what you need less expensively. In the case of "Any job worth doing...", the same principle applies, but is a little harder to use. When doing a job it is easy to buy the most expensive hardware or spend an excessive amount of time making it as perfect as possible. In a world where your time is valuable, wasting time on a job trying to do something better than needed, is wasteful. I am not quarreling with craftsman, who make works of art. That is a whole different case.

 

[Warren M]

Give'm a break....

.... If Barry only needs a lunch hook, then the package he describes certainly ought to be adequate as it would seem he would only be using it in good weather and his boat would be attended during those times.Having said that, the issue of having an all weather anchor or two aboard, for reasons of safety when the weather turns nasty or you have some other emergency, is a whole other issue that Barry ought to give some thought to as that would result in a very different ground tackle decision....

 

[BarryL]

More Info

Hi Guys,Thanks for the advice give. Some additional info:1. I don't to spend a lot of money for an anchor, since I won't use it often. This year, I have anchored twice, both times to do some swimming on the beach. We were anchored for maybe 3 hours on each occasion. Maybe I will anchor one more time, maybe not.2. If I do any cruising, and I do want to, it will be to marinas with docks, power, water, bathrooms, and other amenities that my family of 5 requires. 3. My boat came with two anchors, a rusty piece of junk in the anchor locker on the bow (that I will throw away and replace) and a brand new looking 14# Danforth, 6' chain, 200' rode, etc. located in the cockpit lazarette. I used that anchor yesterday, and it's just too much trouble to empty the lazarette out, get the anchor, walk it to the bow, deploy it, then reverse it all at the end of the day. I figure if I ever encounter an emergency that requires anchoring, that anchor would be sufficient.4. I find it very interesting that Tie Down Engineering makes both Danforth (R) AND Super Hooker anchors. Can there be THAT much difference in the two anchors?5. I don't want to buy a piece of junk, something that will rust away, break, or fail to hold the boat. The boat may be unattended while everyone is swimming and it would not be good if it left us on the beach!So I guess my final question is the Super Hooker good enough for those conditions, or am I better off spending more money (like twice as much) for something more suitable? All things considered, I have better uses for my money, but I don't like to waste money on poor quality stuff either.Thanks again,Barry

 

[Rick Webb]

It is Perfectly Adequate for the Use You Describe

It is however cheap and performs poorly but you are not asking much of it either. My sugestion would be to add more chain to your primary anchor 10 or 12 feet and maybe use the rode you already have for your lunch hook (you do not describe it's condition) with a better anchor. That might save a few bucks and leave you with better eqipment.

 

[Gord May]

Failure Effects Analysis

D:You’re right - these are two mis-used phrases, often abused by sales types.Ie:“You don't always get what you are paying for and, in many cases, you get what you need less expensively”. See the “Bridle Plate Mooring System” at http://www.colligoengineering.com/bridal_plate.htm. I like it, but wouldn’t pay what they are asking for the elegant device.I’d add the more important proviso that - “You NEVER (OK, seldom) get what you DON’t pay for (something for nothing).I’m not certain that the proverb “Any job worth doing, is worth doing right" MUST imply great expense (tho’ I’ll admit, it often turns out that way). I prefer the phrase:If you didn’t have the time (money) to do it “right” in the first place, when will you get the time (money) to fix it?I am an advocate of “making informed decisions”. I usually consider the following important factors, when determining what I believe to be the “right” (prudent) investment of time & money:1. What is the probability of a failure occurring?2. What are the likeliest failure modes?3. What are the consequences of that/those failure(s)?4. What measure(s) would be effective in reducing or eliminating that/those failure(s)?5. What are the costs (time & money, & etc) of implementing those measures, and how do they relate to the consequences they mitigate? I understand Barry’s reluctance to “overinvest” in an anchor he doesn’t expect to use (much), and even then, under the most benign conditions - I just can’t bring myself to endorse it. Respectfully,Gord

 

[Dan18277]

Mostly Agree

Gord. I agree with most of what you say. Actually I said pretty much the same thing on some forum a few months ago. You can occasionally get some very useful items very inexpensively. You just have to use your imagination when looking at them.Some of my biggest disappointments have been when I bought some relatively expensive items which did not live up to my expectations.I have listed some items which I have bought over the last few months which are very inexpensive, but could have cost a lot more: You have to keep in mind that I sail in a less stressful environment than many, so these may not work for everyone.Bungee Loop and Balls from Walmart. About $3 for a package of ten. Probably less than 1/4 of the cost at a marine store.Using aluminum angle iron to replace spreaders on my smaller boat, an American Fiberglass D-18. Functionally and strength wise they are better than the original.Brass or nickle plated zinc coat hooks. They are not particularly strong, but they work well and look good for hanging lines, etc inside the boat.Much less expensive 3/8" rope from Home Depot. I use them for halyards and sheets, usually in places where smaller diameter more expensive line is adequate. We have been down this road before, so remarks about false economy are wasted on me.I buy virtually all of my SS fasteners at the local hardware store at probably half the cost of a marine store.

 

[Ed Ryan7037]

Another Option?

Barry,Don't know if this option is readily available to you or not, but I had good luck buying a used anchor, chain and rode last year for a reasonable price at Bacons in Annapolis. They were purchased separately and at about half the cost of new equipment. The lunch hook concept is fine, but I always like to have an anchor that's fairly dependable close at hand, such as when the engine quits unexpectedly, and you're in a busy channel or near a lee shore. Just another couple of thoughts to consider.Ed.

 

[Dan18277]

Lunch anchors packages, what strategy is best?

I have used both the Hooker and Danfort anchors.The standard Danfort seems to be the best compromise of all worlds, decent price, good holding and good corrosion resistance.Use SS shackles with shanks tied with SS wire, particually in salt water. Vinyl is good until it wears off however when partially worn it traps moisture thereby assisting rust that can't be readily noticed. The galvanized shackles will usually have to be cut off in time. The rode thimbles should be SS since the nylon breaks and the steel ones rust out.Anchors left on the deck or in damp lockers have a tendancy to rust quicker that ones left under water but both need periodic inspection.If your're still convinced on using a just-get- by anchoring package, make sure to put the little-saved money into your boat's insurance policy.Your primary anchor should be able to handle an occasional 40-45 mph gust without dragging, allowing you to climb back onboard and weather out an unexpected squall or thunder storm. Lord bless in your sailing endeavors,Tobin Barrettwww.wtlministry.org

 

[Drew13440]

Good points...

...from all. I think the answer to the original question is probably yes, the package is OK for a lunch hook. But, Gord's point is well taken, especially with respect to the line. It is barely adequate. I would opt for 1/2" line and possibly an even lighter anchor. A ten or twelve pounder - for lunch only - that is designed for the bottom I would find where I sail the boat described above.I sail mostly single-handed, but if ever blessed with a familly of five the boat will not leave the dock without appropriate ground tackle. A lunch hook set-up easy to deploy and retrieve is a joy - a proper working anchor and rode is one of the most important pieces of safety equipment on the boat - ground tackle that can HOLD THAT BOAT if anything runs awry - unexpected weather, dismasting, whatever. Just something for Barry to think about. And now I'll take my lumps from the rest of you...Cheers, Drew

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Many years ago,,,

I read an article about anchoring. It might have been in Sail magazine. Anyway, the point was that a lunch hook is a bad idea. The purpose of one is to quickly deploy it with little effort for a short time. If a vessel is set up with a proper primary anchor, then it will deploy and retrieve just as easily and be much safer. Remember, your boats primary safety device isn't a radio or some flair kit, it's your anchor. It should be suitable for most conditions and be quickly deployable. A lunch hook only gets in the way. OH, IMHO.

 

[Drew13440]

Bad Idea?

For whom? Granted, it takes no additional effort to push a button to activate an electronic windlass attached to a heavier anchor/rode, but not all of us have this luxury. I certainly don't. It is never a bad idea, IMHO, to carry and utilize equipment that is appropriate to conditions and circumstance. Nor is it a bad idea to provide redundancy of equipment, particularly safety equipment. Whatever makes the experience enjoyable and safe. No harm, no foul.Drew

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Drew,

Who said anything about pushing a button? A proper primary anchor is a joy for many reasons, no matter how deployed. IMHO

 

[Seattle Scott]

Recipe for a sentinal

Go into garage, basement, back of your truck, find that opened sack of redi mix concrete from your fence post project and the plastic bucket you used to mix the porch paint. Find that bike cable lock with the combination you forgot, or some other cable wire and that bike inner tube with all the patches hanging on the nail on the wall. Finally, find that tee shirt with the beer logo that your wife won't let you wear any more. Take the shirt off the hanger and save the hanger.Dump 10 pounds of concrete into bucket, add water, mix. Tie your cable in a loop and stick the knot or the combination lock from the bike lock into the concrete. Let harden. Turn bucket over and kick it to remove cement. Wrap inner tube around cable loop so easier on hands when lifting. Stick the cement blob into your old shirt to protect your gell coat and tie it off with the coat hanger you used to hang your tee shirt from. Voila, your sentinal. Also make a good beach anchor for the dink so you don't have to drag it up the beach.

 

[Gord May]

A waste?

I agree with Fred’s thought, but might have labeled the lunch hook a wasted effort (rather than bad idea). As he said, once you’ve set up a decent primary anchor, there’s no reason to go to the expense & effort, nor waste the weight & space of a mere“lunch hook”. The lunch hook is appropriate to a very narrow range of conditions, and will not offer an effective back-up to a well conceived primary. I agree that an anchor system is too important (the consequences of failure too dire) to trust to a “PROBABLY good enough” (under benign conditions) set-up.I know, it’s easy for me to spend your money ...BTW: My largest (of 2)dinghy anchor would be appropriate for my boat's lunch hook (I've spent the night anchored in my dink)Gord

 

[robert taylor]

heave to

when on a tack, come slowly to weather, tack, do not release the jib/genoa, allow the boat to slow to a stop, after falling far off to lee, return the helm to opposite tack. the boat will not have enough momentum to tack again and will remain in irons at a very very low speed. eat lunch. when ready to sail again, just release the windward jib/genoa sheet and trim on other tack to resume sailing. i am not saying you do not need another anchor, just that there are easier ways to stop a boat for a quick snack.regardsrt