any thoughts out there on the correct size and type of main anchor for a C-30 - not a lunch hook? assumptions are: decent holding ground (sand/mud), wind up to 15 knots, not more than one/two nights on the hook.
anchor sizing
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Anchoring
Hi Joefusa;
I also sail a Catalina 30 all over Northern Lake Michigan, For the last 7 years, I have used a Bruce 33lb with 50 ft of chain and 250' of New England ropes 1/2" three strand for my primary. For my secondary, I have a 26 lb Danforth type with 30 feet of chain and 200' of 1/2" 3 strand We anchor out probably 20 nights a summer. The Bruce fits on the existing rollers in the stem fitting and the danforth hangs on the bow pulpit. I put a Starboard divider in the anchor locker to keep the two rodes seperated, works well.
We use the Bruce 95% of the time, and it has never failed to set in 1 to 2 anchor lengths.
We have set thru some storms that produced 47 knot winds and our Bruce has never failed us, with 10 to 1 rode and set with full power, I think the cleats would pull out before the Bruce. The real key is lots of rode and set with power.
We also use an anchoring sail which helps the Catalina not wander at anchor as much as some other boats.
fair winds
Dave
Hi Joefusa;
I also sail a Catalina 30 all over Northern Lake Michigan, For the last 7 years, I have used a Bruce 33lb with 50 ft of chain and 250' of New England ropes 1/2" three strand for my primary. For my secondary, I have a 26 lb Danforth type with 30 feet of chain and 200' of 1/2" 3 strand We anchor out probably 20 nights a summer. The Bruce fits on the existing rollers in the stem fitting and the danforth hangs on the bow pulpit. I put a Starboard divider in the anchor locker to keep the two rodes seperated, works well.
We use the Bruce 95% of the time, and it has never failed to set in 1 to 2 anchor lengths.
We have set thru some storms that produced 47 knot winds and our Bruce has never failed us, with 10 to 1 rode and set with full power, I think the cleats would pull out before the Bruce. The real key is lots of rode and set with power.
We also use an anchoring sail which helps the Catalina not wander at anchor as much as some other boats.
fair winds
Dave
I'd recommend getting a next gen anchor in the 30-35 lb. range, like a Manson Supreme or Rocna. I'd also recommend going with 60' of 5/16" G43 chain and at least 150' of 5/8" nylon octo-plait line for the rode.
If you don't have a windlass, I'd highly recommend getting a manual one. It makes setting and retrieving the anchor much easier.
BTW, sizing it for 15 knots of wind is relatively foolish IMHO. If you're anchored out over the weekend during the summer, a summer afternoon thunderstorm can easily expose you to winds of 40+ knots.
Maine Sail will probably comment, as he does own several anchors, including the Rocna and Manson Supreme.
BTW, I use a Rocna 15 (33 lbs.) as my primary anchor.
If you don't have a windlass, I'd highly recommend getting a manual one. It makes setting and retrieving the anchor much easier.
BTW, sizing it for 15 knots of wind is relatively foolish IMHO. If you're anchored out over the weekend during the summer, a summer afternoon thunderstorm can easily expose you to winds of 40+ knots.
Maine Sail will probably comment, as he does own several anchors, including the Rocna and Manson Supreme.
BTW, I use a Rocna 15 (33 lbs.) as my primary anchor.
I don't have a lot of experience anchoring but I bought a 25 lbs Manson Supreme with 30' of chain and 250' 1/2" nylon on my C30. I've had no problem so far and the anchor sets very easy. I couldn't believe how much eel grass I brought up one weekend we spent in Cuttyhunk. I wish I took a picture. I don't sleep well on an anchor. Maybe in a few years with a little more experience I'll sleep better.
Anchor post can get pretty hot. Check the archives. I remember quietly reading any anchor post before I bought last spring. i also have a Danforth with 10' chain that came with the boat as a second but have never used it.
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages/sizingchart.htm
Anchor post can get pretty hot. Check the archives. I remember quietly reading any anchor post before I bought last spring. i also have a Danforth with 10' chain that came with the boat as a second but have never used it.
http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages/sizingchart.htm
I have a 35 lb CQR that I bought from a family with a forty footer. It has served me well for 10 years with 30 feet of 3/8 inch chain and a 5/8 three strand rode. I always anchor with excess scope and have not dragged in conditions that I didn't care to go on deck the measure.
Having owned a C-30
These would be my weight choices for a C-30 general purpose anchor plus, at a minimum, 1 boat length or 1.5 boat lengths of chain and proper setting techniques:
Genuine CQR = 35 lb.
Delta = 35 lb.
Bruce/Claw = 33 lb.
Manson Supreme = 25 lb.
Rocna = 22 lb.
I don't consider Danforth/Fortress style anchors general purpose, even though I use a Fortress as my dedicated stern anchor, as they can tend to un-set on wind or tide shifts and then have the nerve to not re-set..
As Dog said the new generation anchors are great but a properly sized Claw will work fine. Unfortunately properly sized for a Burce or Claw style usually means one or two sizes bigger than the comparable new generation anchors..
BSmith,
These would be my weight choices for a C-30 general purpose anchor plus, at a minimum, 1 boat length or 1.5 boat lengths of chain and proper setting techniques:
Genuine CQR = 35 lb.
Delta = 35 lb.
Bruce/Claw = 33 lb.
Manson Supreme = 25 lb.
Rocna = 22 lb.
I don't consider Danforth/Fortress style anchors general purpose, even though I use a Fortress as my dedicated stern anchor, as they can tend to un-set on wind or tide shifts and then have the nerve to not re-set..
As Dog said the new generation anchors are great but a properly sized Claw will work fine. Unfortunately properly sized for a Burce or Claw style usually means one or two sizes bigger than the comparable new generation anchors..
BSmith,
You should be proud you set there at all!:dance: I know many sailors who have not even been able to get a set in Cuttyhunk. Nice job! That eel grass there can be thick especially in the early season before it's been scared & softened up by others..
30 lb CQR
Had a 30' Catalina and 30 lb CQR with 10' of chain on a 1/2" nylon rode. it survived a 60+ knot summer thunderstorm when 75% of the other boaters where dragging. Bottom was Chesapeake mud. I had all 200' of rode out in 10 ft of water so the scope was something like 13:1. it was quite well buried when all was said and done and I can indeed recommend a manual windlass.
I'd ditto saildogs comment about sizing for a 15 knot wind.
The real test is when the storm hits and you are not on board. I saw no less than 3 guys (no gals) try to get back to their boats during the storm when they realize they where dragging into a lee shore. It would have been funny if it where not so dangerous.
I currently have 40.5 hunter Legend with a 35 lb CQR on 50' of chain and 200' 1/2 nylon rode. I believe the chain makes a big difference as during the Annapolis 4th of July 08 celebration a squall piped up and I just monitored the boat for dragging. I'd just bough her and this was my first anchoring so I wanted to check it out. With only 50' of chain and a little rode out in 10' of water(4:1 scope) she held like a champ. The winds hit 45 knots.
Had a 30' Catalina and 30 lb CQR with 10' of chain on a 1/2" nylon rode. it survived a 60+ knot summer thunderstorm when 75% of the other boaters where dragging. Bottom was Chesapeake mud. I had all 200' of rode out in 10 ft of water so the scope was something like 13:1. it was quite well buried when all was said and done and I can indeed recommend a manual windlass.
I'd ditto saildogs comment about sizing for a 15 knot wind.
The real test is when the storm hits and you are not on board. I saw no less than 3 guys (no gals) try to get back to their boats during the storm when they realize they where dragging into a lee shore. It would have been funny if it where not so dangerous.
I currently have 40.5 hunter Legend with a 35 lb CQR on 50' of chain and 200' 1/2 nylon rode. I believe the chain makes a big difference as during the Annapolis 4th of July 08 celebration a squall piped up and I just monitored the boat for dragging. I'd just bough her and this was my first anchoring so I wanted to check it out. With only 50' of chain and a little rode out in 10' of water(4:1 scope) she held like a champ. The winds hit 45 knots.
Hook
We've been very satisfied with our 40 pound Danforth holding our 30,000 pound P42. Mostly mud and sand in these parts. Has always held in gale force winds, several days on the hook. Highly recommend this brand. We have 50 feet of chain and I always drop a 20 pound kellet to help with catenary.
Bud
We've been very satisfied with our 40 pound Danforth holding our 30,000 pound P42. Mostly mud and sand in these parts. Has always held in gale force winds, several days on the hook. Highly recommend this brand. We have 50 feet of chain and I always drop a 20 pound kellet to help with catenary.
Bud
There is a story of a group of voyagers anchored during a blow and a former master for Jacques Cousteau was as calm and laid back as a man can be and the others asked why. His reply was a classic, "The secret is in ze chain my friends." It turned out that his anchor cahin on a 45 foot boat was 1/2 inch and a long length at that.
I wouldn't trust a fluke type anchor as a primary. They have a nasty tendency to pull out and not reset properly in a reversing wind/current situation. Going a bit heavier on the ground tackle than you need is a wiser move than going lighter... especially if you plan on spending any time at anchor with the boat unattended. The ground tackle is going to be the only thing between a sudden afternoon thunderstorm smashing your boat against the shore and your boat boat staying safely anchored—is it really wise to skimp on something that is protecting your boat in that kind of situation???
The Rocna 15 is about $540, 60' of 5/16" G43 chain with 150' of 5/8" octoplait is about $460. An anchor shackle, load rated, $10. So for about $1000, you can get a very good ground tackle system—how much is your boat worth to you???
The Rocna 15 is about $540, 60' of 5/16" G43 chain with 150' of 5/8" octoplait is about $460. An anchor shackle, load rated, $10. So for about $1000, you can get a very good ground tackle system—how much is your boat worth to you???
Dog,
I understand the more chain the better. Is one boat length considered the norm?
Maine Sail,
Thank's! Cuttyhunk is a beautiful spot but very very crowded. Difficult just finding a spot where my swing wasn't a problem. It was August time frame so I believe the bottom was probably chewed up.
I heard about using a stern anchor, for what purpose is it done? Do you use it when things get bad or to stop the swing. We swung 90° all night long. That's why I don't sleep! I had two sailboats rafting and 50' Cateraman off my stern and neither of them appeared to sway as I watched my stern come to within 30' of both all night long! Scary for me and I'm sure not to comfortable for them. No one complained, Capt John on the 50'er was very helpful. I can tell you there wasn't much room between any boat there.
I understand the more chain the better. Is one boat length considered the norm?
Maine Sail,
Thank's! Cuttyhunk is a beautiful spot but very very crowded. Difficult just finding a spot where my swing wasn't a problem. It was August time frame so I believe the bottom was probably chewed up.
I heard about using a stern anchor, for what purpose is it done? Do you use it when things get bad or to stop the swing. We swung 90° all night long. That's why I don't sleep! I had two sailboats rafting and 50' Cateraman off my stern and neither of them appeared to sway as I watched my stern come to within 30' of both all night long! Scary for me and I'm sure not to comfortable for them. No one complained, Capt John on the 50'er was very helpful. I can tell you there wasn't much room between any boat there.
One place we like to anchor is about a thousand feet from the channel. The power boats produce wake waves that roll us uncomfortably if we are beam on to the channel. At those times I drop a stern hook and keep us bows on to the incoming wake waves.
One boat length is the minimum I'd recommend for most anchors. However, some of the fluke type anchors are designed to use less and if you use more chain on them, they have trouble setting properly. Fortress anchors have a page that mentions this on their website IIRC.
A stern anchor can help, but if no one else is using one, you become a problem and threat to them, since you won't swing in the same manner the boats around you will.
What size, the manufacturer will tell you what size and any anchor will work for 15 knots but as stated, it shouldn't be a fluke type. Flukes are great for storms but not everyday anchoring. Now I couldn't post on an anchoring thread without stating I think the Bullwagga is the best anchor in the world
Missing in all this discussion
it seems to me, is SIZING the anchoring SYSTEM, and not just the boat size.
When we redid our gear, I did some research, and using Calder's "Cruising Handbook" sized each of the components of the tackle: anchor, shackles, rode and chain. This is based on the anticipated wind conditions for the size and type of your boat.
I opted to go with a design of up to 42 knots which resulted in a Rocna 10 (22#), 1/4 inch chain, 1/2 inch rode and appropriate shackles.
This is because I don't envision being out in anything over 42 knots to anchor based on where and when I sail. We also have a larger fluke Danforth with bigger chain for just in case.
Others, however, have completely different requirements. Our brethren back east can anchor and get hit with a major squall literally anytime of day or night. They, therefore, NEED and REQUIRE a heavier ANCHORING SYSTEM DESIGN and equipment. If my boat were in different waters, I would size the SYSTEM accordingly.
So, don't necessarily do what your neighbors do or even what we suggest: do some research and size your system for what YOU intend to do with YOUR boat.
it seems to me, is SIZING the anchoring SYSTEM, and not just the boat size.
When we redid our gear, I did some research, and using Calder's "Cruising Handbook" sized each of the components of the tackle: anchor, shackles, rode and chain. This is based on the anticipated wind conditions for the size and type of your boat.
I opted to go with a design of up to 42 knots which resulted in a Rocna 10 (22#), 1/4 inch chain, 1/2 inch rode and appropriate shackles.
This is because I don't envision being out in anything over 42 knots to anchor based on where and when I sail. We also have a larger fluke Danforth with bigger chain for just in case.
Others, however, have completely different requirements. Our brethren back east can anchor and get hit with a major squall literally anytime of day or night. They, therefore, NEED and REQUIRE a heavier ANCHORING SYSTEM DESIGN and equipment. If my boat were in different waters, I would size the SYSTEM accordingly.
So, don't necessarily do what your neighbors do or even what we suggest: do some research and size your system for what YOU intend to do with YOUR boat.
The main problem I see with the Bulwagga is that a third of the anchor isn't really doing anything at any given time. It is also a bear to stow. The attachment point between the stock and the flukes also strikes me as a weak point, since it pivots, the galvanization there will wear away fairly quickly.
Regardless of it's odd shape and stowability issues I've yet to see an owner who was not 150% satisfied with a Bullwagga.. It's a very good anchor and I think would be comparable in performance to most of the new gen anchors.
Calculated Rode Tensions
if the link isn't allowed, google:
The Sailing Foundation Anchor Tests
and look for the calculated rode tensions.
http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/comparetocalculate.htm#Calculated Rode Tension
if the link isn't allowed, google:
The Sailing Foundation Anchor Tests
and look for the calculated rode tensions.
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