Anchor for wind shift

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H

HAL

Is this a reasonable approach to expected wind shift?
I want to anchor for an expected wind shift of 90 or 180 and don’t want to depend on one anchor resetting. So I set two anchors one off the bow and one off the stern. If I tighten up the rodes, then when the wind shifts to the beam not only will the boat be beam to the wind but also the boat will be exerting near infinite mechanical advantage on the anchors. If I let out the rodes to an angle of 120 degrees then (according to a diagram of load and angle of pull on blocks) the load presented by the boat would be the same as the load on each anchor. If beam wind is persistent then I move the stern rode forward and have a Bahamian moor with not much slack in the rodes.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,703
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Hal

Is this a reasonable approach to expected wind shift?
I want to anchor for an expected wind shift of 90 or 180 and don’t want to depend on one anchor resetting. So I set two anchors one off the bow and one off the stern. If I tighten up the rodes, then when the wind shifts to the beam not only will the boat be beam to the wind but also the boat will be exerting near infinite mechanical advantage on the anchors. If I let out the rodes to an angle of 120 degrees then (according to a diagram of load and angle of pull on blocks) the load presented by the boat would be the same as the load on each anchor. If beam wind is persistent then I move the stern rode forward and have a Bahamian moor with not much slack in the rodes.
Hal,

It is tough to answer your question because you have left out a bunch of info.

What anchors do you have? What is the boat/displacement? Where do you sail and what is the general bottom type encountered? What are you using for rode? Are these crowded anchorages? Do you have current or tides to deal with?


Not to bring up registering again but it is very handy. If you register there are many benefits, no entering fuzzy codes every time you post, the ability to have your computer remember who you are on this site, log you on automatically and others.. NO we don't need to know your real name or your real email address. If you want anonymity sign up for a free Yahoo mail or Hotmail account and register using it.

It is fair to other members to at least let us know the following. Boat model/length/year & where you sail out of. With these few bits of information others can answer lots of questions more effectively. You can even put this information in a signature so folks don't need to check your profile if you left pertinent information out of a post.

I would have sent this to you as a private message but you are not registered.;)

To answer your question as best I can.. I have rarely every used two anchors. I use a stern anchor only when there is a need which is not very often and would NEVER use one if no one else was as that is just rude in a crowded anchorage. We do see it often, one guy using a stern anchor in a crowded anchorage, and someone will invariably row over and ask them to move or lose the stern anchor so swing is not interrupted.

We swing at least 180 almost every single night we anchor and the ten+ foot tides play a big part in this. More often than not the cookie trial is a full 360 by morning. 95% of the time we use one single anchor. We've been doing this for many, many years. Use proper techniques like setting and scope, and an anchor with good re-set capabilities and you will do just fine. Two anchors can cause more problems than good in many instances and you're talking about using three which can get even more messy.

One other issue with multiple anchors is the situation where the guy in front of you is dragging his hook onto you. If you need to get out of the way fast you'll have a very tough time raising three anchors.

This happens here's a photo of it happening to me during their re-set attempt. To avoid a collision I simply shortened my single scope as they came towards me and their vessel wound up where we had been. Had I been using two or more anchors there is no way I would have had time to get out of the way. Not getting out of the way for me would have been a 8-10K paint job.. I also jumped in the dink after shortening scope to keep them at bay until the owner, still in his pajamas, could get his butt on deck..
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
I'd second what Maine Sail has said. If you're having to use two anchors with any regularity, regardless of whether it is a stern anchor or a Bahamian moor, your primary anchor is probably not big enough.

I'd highly recommend getting a next gen anchor, like the Rocna, Manson Supreme, Buegel, Spade or Bulwagga. These anchors tend to set faster and better than the older designs. They also have more holding power than the older designs and will often reset far better in the event that they do pull out.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Hal -
You are correct in that taught-to-the boat bow & stern anchors will almost surely break out .... due to dividing by the trigonometric sine of the angle between them (when the wind is approaching 90 deg to both anchors) ... simple trigonometry wherein the combination of vectors approaches a mathematical 'infinite force'.

Rx: Leave enough slack between the two, or let out more slack to the anchor that WAS the primary holding anchor (the one that soon be the 'slack' anchor) if you expect a blow from the side --- the slack combination of both rodes will then be able to form a "V" during the wind shift. This will keep the 'sine' value at reasonable values.
Such are intricacies when using a 2 anchor "bahamian moor".

With two anchors down - one fore and one aft, with just a current reversal there is no problem with taught rodes; but, add a wind from the side during the change and .... trigonometry takes over and usually breaks out at least one anchor.

:)
 
H

HAL

Thanks

Thanks for confirming the idea I had on handling the two rodes that are necessary if I want the extra security of two anchors. After researching anchor info 3 years ago I bought a properly sized Lewmar Delta as it appeared to be the best all-round choice. Now I have heard it may have trouble resetting, but I own it, so I’m going to work with it for now. I felt a 2-anchor rig might reduce the surprise element as long as it’s not near others.
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
There have been times when I knew that the wind shift was coming and it was going to be a stronger wind. I was using a danforth anchor.

When I set the rode I tried to set it at 90 degrees from where I was versus where the wind would shift to. This was for those wonderful 180 degree wind shifts.

When I set the rode I would back down really hard on it to try to burry it in the mud.

I just switched to a bruce type anchor and I went to 30 feet of chain (I have a 30 foot boat) so I am interested to see how this will work but I believe that with this set up the anchor should re-set more often than not....plus my anchor is also oversized for my boat.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I am sure that the bottom conditions are the biggest factor in setting an anchor. I have on a few occassions anchored on the fly. In those situations I dropped the CQR and payed out rode until I had 5-6 :1 scope and took a turn on a bit. If it didn't grab I let it run some more and tried again. It has always set to a scope above 8:1. That said, the bottom here is generally not hard.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,015
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Anchoring fun

BadO wrote: "I just switched to a bruce type anchor and I went to 30 feet of chain (I have a 30 foot boat) so I am interested to see how this will work but I believe that with this set up the anchor should re-set more often than not....plus my anchor is also oversized for my boat."

1. Be very careful using that Bruce. :):):) What'll happen the first time you use it is that as you deploy it and it hits the bottom, it'll jerk you off the bow of the boat. This is compared to the danforth which would just kinda slide along the bottom. You'll see a BIG difference in its initial GRAB or BITE. If you want a REAL difference, try a Rocna or Manson Supreme - they pull you out of your socks!!!

2. Oversized for my boat? I suggest you be very careful here, too. Based on what? Specifically. For instance, WM's charts are based on maybe a 30 kt wind. You need to size your anchoring SYSTEM, piece by piece, based on what wind strength YOU envision you need. You may know all this already and just did a shortcut in wording, but I'd be very careful with newbies perhaps misinterpreting "oversized for my boat" and go out and buy big anchors with dinky rode.
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Stu, you are right....They suggested a 22 lb bruce type for my boat and I went to the 33. The rode matches the anchor.

Lots of cruisers in my area will swear by the bruce because of the bottom in the Chesapeake Bay area. I have a spare rigged that is a danforth.

I think that in the end, if you feel confident in your ground tackle then you sleep much better.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
It is pretty rare that we have winds above 30 kts and those are well forecast. Thunderstorms are another story entirely but they don't last very long.
Henderson wrote a book called" Sailing in Windy Weather". I have suggested to Nancy that we write one called "Sailing in a Dead Flat Calm". That is more often what we get here in the summer. ;)
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
Ross, for the most part you are right....but I always manage to find that huge Chesapeake Bay Storm. The other thing that I tend to find is strong fronts in late May in early June when I am on my vacation.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,015
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You guys are right

As I mentioned in earlier anchoring threads, I've sized our anchoring system for 42 kts. That's the anchor, chain, rode and all shackles. That's because we're somewhat between Ross and BadO. We rarely have thunderstorms here, and the places we do traditionally anchor do not have winds anywhere near that strength. I also noted, for newbies and new readers, that our brethren in other parts of the country experience what Ross and BadO have mentioned: fronts moving through can easily have winds well in excess of the 42 kts we're sized for. I also noted that if I was going elsewhere I'd require and would install a heavier ground tackle system. We sized our system based on Calder's Cruising Handbook, anchoring sizing tables and information. We have a 22# Rocna with 1/4" chain and 1/2" line. Our friends back east and in the PNW have 35# equivalent anchors with either 1/4 or 5/16 chain and 5/8 line.
 
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