Anchor Chain - where do you put it

[a poor old sailor]

anti-chain rant

Ugh - you all-chainers tire me...Why do you want all chain? Is it for the extra weight and consequential reduction in necessary scope? If so, you are fooling yourselves. Scope is scope. It doesn't really matter in a 20 knot breeze, but when things really blow, your rode will be stretched taught regardless of its weight. Besides, Gary's kellet will accomplish the same relatively horizontal pull in light to moderate winds.Is it because coral can't cut chain? Well, sheesh, if you are anchoring in, around, or near coral then you oughta just get off the water now before I find you. Anchors and rodes kill coral - stop it! If you can't find a large enough sandy patch then go somewheres else, sheesh!And if you use all chain, you'd best get several snubbers. The biggest advantage (besides easy handling and light weight) of nylon is that it stretches...a lot! Consider a hurricane (4 close brushes at anchor last year), the wind is howling and your rode is tight. Then add waves (five to six footers in my bay). So your boat is in a trough, and suddenly rises to the crest. Nylon stretches to absorb this, but chain does not, resulting in quite a jolt to your cleat and to your anchor. Will your cleat withstand this? How well set is that anchor? Dozens of boats went past me on their way to the rocks during the storms last year, I wonder how many losses were a result of all chain rodes without adequate snubbage...

 

[Franklin]

Misunderstanding

I think I've been misunderstood. I too like rope rode and that's what I have and that's what I plan on keeping...unless I head to the south pacific where I HEAR it's all coral...nothing else to anchor in. Also from what I understand, it's not illegal to anchor in it in most places IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC. Anchoring in it may kill some coral, but when that's all that surrounds the islands, I'm sure they can spare some. But if somebody got a better idea I'd love to hear it.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Franklin, I've got a good buddie boater who spent

many years in the south Pacific and NZ. I'll try to remember to call him tomorrow and ask.  And speaking of NEW ZEALAND,,,Lazyjack, Isn't it true that NZ is the ONE nation on Earth that requires a pre-departure inspection of all yachts for safety equipment and skipper qualifications, prior to departure offshore, regardless of the destination??? Free spirit? Maybe I missed something in the press releases. Still love your boat though. Oh, those moorings in the Grand Caymans; they're free.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Old Sailor,

Having recently converted from rope to all chain rode, I must take issue with some of your assumptions about 'all chain'. Granted, we haven't been on chain in a major storm like we did while traveling and anchoring with rope, but we're home now and have marinas to duck into. Never the less, two hundred feet of rope is NOT the same scope as 200 feet of chain. The chain will outperform the rope, conditions being equal, hands down, in every category of measurement ever devised by man. Only a major storm will get a chain rode to stretch taught. Any thing else and the leading part of the chain is laying on the bottom causing NO pull to be transfered to the anchor. And if pull is imparted to the hook, then almost every time, the pull is from the direction parallel to the bottom. No sentinel needed. And snubber's are standard stuff. Seamanship mandates them. A windlass is not a cleat.

 

[Stu Jackson]

What a PIP!

These are priceless.Who'd a'thought anyone could get their knickers in such an uproar over chain or combo anchor lines?The spelling police suggest taut, by the way. Dey learned me dat b4.*boxAnd this is yet another case of where, for a few times to repeat myself, that:the SIZE of the boat you have or are discussing IS SOMEWHAT IMPORTANT TO THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED.Sorry for yelling, but why, oh why, can't you just simply add it to your signatures?Or at least let us know when you are discussing the matter?Sleep "tite"...StuPS - everyone knows that "me & Fred" have 34s

 

[LAZEYJACK]

have you actually been SP?

Smile, have you actually been there, ?

 

[lazeyjack]

NZ cat one and rescues

yes Cat I,(ocean race class cat 1) but only for NZ reg they tried to bung it on foreign yachts , but caused an uproar,  this week there were 4 yachts rescued off NZ coast, see www.newzealandherald.co.nzor www.nzherald.co.nz every year 100,s of yachts head to fiji, or Tonga , and when it gets rou gh north of NZ it get rough(ocean

 

[Phiggins]

Cayman Islands

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I know any threads about all chain anchor always causes a lot of discussion.Fred (or anyone else)if you have anymore advice/information about the Cayman Islands, I would appreciate hearing it as that is my destination. Did you anchor off the east end at all?

 

[a poor old sailor]

Appalling ethics - and stretch

"Also from what I understand, it's not illegal to anchor in it in most places IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC. Anchoring in it may kill some coral, but when that's all that surrounds the islands, I'm sure they can spare some."How many sailors have an attitude like this? How many are killing 'just a little' at a time? How long does it take for the reef to recover? How long before the reefs die?-------------------------------------And for Fred, regarding sentinels and snubbers. The weight of the rode becomes less important as the force on the boat increases. This force goes up by the square of the wind speed while the rode weight remains constant. I agree that a heavier rode will have a more horizontal pull in lighter winds, so if you can't provide enough scope then use a heavy rode. Just don't expect it to hold when a storm comes through.Your 15' length of nylon and chain wrapped rubber snubber have nowhere near the capacity to stretch as a 150' length of nylon. They help, I agree, and must be standard equipment. Just don't rely on it when a storm comes through....So use whatever you want in mild to moderate conditions, but when it really begins to blow nothing beats a long length of nylon. Actually, because line is so much easier to handle, it is hard to make much of a case against it even in milder conditions.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Stu, Gday and Old Sailor

Stu, a sharp wrap on the knuckles and a day off without pay to my spelling police for not flagging taut.Gday, I was there for a week making repairs from the west end.Old Sailor, as far as ease of use; IT DEPENDS. Sure, rope is easier to bring back on board than chain, BY HAND. Don't do that! Get a windlass. I love my new windlass. I never had one until now. It's a whole new world. We always used to drop two hooks to hold our position, even when stern tying to the beach. Not any more. Our Fortress and it's new 250' of rode hasn't gotten over the side. But old ways are hard to change. The Fortress is ready to go, just in case. We can still put out two hooks off the bow if needed. And a third setup off the stern that matches the Fortress setup. That should be enough for northwest conditions. I sold our storm anchor. It was a Fortress FX55 and 300' of 5/8 nylon rode. It never went overboard. That setup was rated to have a WORKING load FOUR TIMES higher than a Hurricane Hugo would have put on us.Sorry for being so opinionated here about anchoring but after doing it since the seventies a fellow gets opinionated.

 

[a poor old sailor]

Touche', Fred (pardon my french)

All right, if your boat is big enough to handle the chain storage and you have a windlass, I guess that chain might not be sooo bad."after doing it since the seventies a fellow gets opinionated."Ah-hem, think how opinionated I must be after all of this time, if you couldn't already tell.Now if we could just get rid of this spell of red tide. The water is quite gross and the smell of rotting fish wafts several miles inland (and offshore, I understand). Please forgive me if I seem especially grumpy these days.PS I do question your giving up of the storm anchor and rode, but perhaps your sailing habits don't warrant the need for such safety backups.

 

[Gord May]

GDayII - Re: C.I.

The Cayman Islands are one of the world’s top dive sites, but not really a good cruising destination. The reefs at the eastern end of Grand Cayman have long been a hazard to shipping. In the past, East End was known as the "Graveyard of the Caribbean".The Cayman Islands have some of the strictest marine conservation laws in the Caribbean. They were first put into place in 1978 and were strengthened in 1993. The rules prohibit destructive acts such as damaging coral by anchor, chains or other means anywhere in Cayman waters; the taking of any marine life while scuba diving; the taking of any coral, sponges, sea fans or other marine specimens; the use of a spear gun or seine net; fishing with gill nets or poison; dumping anything into the water; exporting any form of marine life.No anchoring – use of fixed moorings only.Boats of sixty (60) feet or less may anchor in sand, so long as no grappling hooks are used and neither the anchor, rope nor chain lies on coral.Anchoring is permitted is designated Port anchorage areas.Anchoring prohibitions may be suspended during emergencies by order of the Port Director.For more about the Marine Conservation Laws, ask for a copy of the brochure Marine Park Rules and The Sea Code in the Cayman Islands; or call the Cayman Islands Dept. of Environment’s Protection and Conservation Unit on Grand Cayman at 345-949-8469 or fax 345-949-8912.NOTE: The penalty for violation of any of these marine rules is strict. The maximum penalty is CI $5,000 (US $6,000) and one year in jail. The penalty for vessels convicted of illegally dumping waste is CI $500,000 (US $625,000).FWIW,Gord May

 

[Rick D]

To: Rick I, Re: How Does It Get There?

Its been a lot of years since I was on it, but as I recall, the chain is lead through a channel in the deck to the windlass which is aft and then falls through the pipe. I assume the storage space is deep enough to handle it. RD

 

[Phiggins]

Windlass - Manual or electric

When you guys talk about the necessity of having a windlass for chain, are you referring to an electric one or a manual one? I have a manual one.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Franklin and Gday

Franklin, I made that call. No answer I'll try tomorrow night if I get home in time.Gday, If you're able bodied and don't mind the work, your windlass should be fine. After all, it's like trimming a genoa, only not as much fun.

 

[Capt.N]

rucrazy

coral eats through rope faster than you can put another hook down

 

[lazeyjack]

man or electric or other windlass

manual is ok until this scenario happensyou are deep in the channels of Chile, the wind blows to shore and its 80 knots, you drag, you lift the first time ok on your man windlass, but you are totally exhausted, the water is deep, the night is black, you know if you anchor and drag again you will not have the strength to lift again, a lee shore beckons,GotIt?we have a hydraulic, as long as the main engine will start, you will raise your gear, electric is second best but DC motors quickly become tired and hot

 

[Franklin]

Sea Anchor

Would a sea anchor have been a better option then?