I would like to go to all chain anchor line for my 35' O'Day. From what I've read on this and other forums I probably need at least 200' of chain which weighs over 200lbs. The boat has a very small anchor locker in the bow that probably could not hold that much chain and besides I think it may be too much weigh up there (right?) so I'm looking for ideas where others store their anchor chain if not in the bow and how do you get it to the bow? Do you drag it up everytime you anchor or do you have some sort of internal channel in the boat to get the chain up front? Thanks
Anchor Chain - where do you put it
- Thread starter Phiggins
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I have 100 ft of 1/4 chain and 150 ft of nylon
on our Crown 34. It actually isn't that big of a pile in the locker, maybe 1.5 ft sq... although it is a bit heavy. What is the rationale for all chain? I am not questioning your judgement, just curious. Recognizing that it is best to keep weight out of the ends of the boat, short of running a conduit from the anchor locker into the bilge(which some have done) I am not sure what else you could do. You do not want to be hauling that chain up on deck each time.... trust me... Check out the book "Upgrading the cruising sailboat" by Daniel Spurr, it might have some ideas. IMHO and based on absolutely zero personal testing, unless I was crossing a BIG body of water, I want the ability to drop anchor in a moments notice so moving the chain to the middle of the boat for the sake of weight is not that important to me.
on our Crown 34. It actually isn't that big of a pile in the locker, maybe 1.5 ft sq... although it is a bit heavy. What is the rationale for all chain? I am not questioning your judgement, just curious. Recognizing that it is best to keep weight out of the ends of the boat, short of running a conduit from the anchor locker into the bilge(which some have done) I am not sure what else you could do. You do not want to be hauling that chain up on deck each time.... trust me... Check out the book "Upgrading the cruising sailboat" by Daniel Spurr, it might have some ideas. IMHO and based on absolutely zero personal testing, unless I was crossing a BIG body of water, I want the ability to drop anchor in a moments notice so moving the chain to the middle of the boat for the sake of weight is not that important to me.
Me thinks you'll have a difficult time...
I think you'll have a difficult time with your project and anchoring will become a real chore. In an article by Pacific Yachting (June 2004) entitled "Choosing Anchor Rode," the author raises several issues. The author says the all chain rode is the best, BUT there are issues. First, the additional weight at the bow, including the weight of the windlass - a must have - can affect boats in the 30 feet and less range, but it can also affect some larger boats as well. Increased weight can affect how the bow rides at anchor in stormy water. More water can come over the bow in either situation. One advantage is less scope - the amount let out - but a disadvantage is that when you want to kedge your vessel off ground or to stern-tie to a shallow beach, the weight of the chain is impossible when taking the anchor in your dinghy to said point. Also in your case, the lack of storage becomes a real issue. Finally, nylon rope has one characteristic better than chain and that is "spring." The give in nylon rope acts as a buffer in heavier waves when the boat is at anchor and buffers the effect of the waves. You can't raise manually an all chain rode, but you can raise manually a combination nylon/chain rode.
I think you'll have a difficult time with your project and anchoring will become a real chore. In an article by Pacific Yachting (June 2004) entitled "Choosing Anchor Rode," the author raises several issues. The author says the all chain rode is the best, BUT there are issues. First, the additional weight at the bow, including the weight of the windlass - a must have - can affect boats in the 30 feet and less range, but it can also affect some larger boats as well. Increased weight can affect how the bow rides at anchor in stormy water. More water can come over the bow in either situation. One advantage is less scope - the amount let out - but a disadvantage is that when you want to kedge your vessel off ground or to stern-tie to a shallow beach, the weight of the chain is impossible when taking the anchor in your dinghy to said point. Also in your case, the lack of storage becomes a real issue. Finally, nylon rope has one characteristic better than chain and that is "spring." The give in nylon rope acts as a buffer in heavier waves when the boat is at anchor and buffers the effect of the waves. You can't raise manually an all chain rode, but you can raise manually a combination nylon/chain rode.
Combination
I have 50' of chain and 300' of good nylon rope with a 35# anchor. Let me tell you that that combination is a booger-bear to raise by hand. I cannot imagine an all chain rode. Maybe i would have to have my wife raise it.
I have 50' of chain and 300' of good nylon rope with a 35# anchor. Let me tell you that that combination is a booger-bear to raise by hand. I cannot imagine an all chain rode. Maybe i would have to have my wife raise it.
The last time we anchored
something went awry on our Maxwell 500 windlass and I had to hand raise about 140 ft of rode, so 40 ft of nylon and 100 ft of chain plus a 22 lb Bruce on the end. It can be done but it is not easy. I am not a big muscular type. I weigh about 170 lbs and would hardly consider myself really strong. I was so tired by the end I could hardly stand and my arms were useless for about an hour! I have yet to anchor in really nasty conditions but 100 ft of chain seems like a good compromise between holding, abrasion resistance and reality. IMHO, unless you anchor consistently in coral and truly abrasive and cutting type bottoms all chain is overkill. IMHO
something went awry on our Maxwell 500 windlass and I had to hand raise about 140 ft of rode, so 40 ft of nylon and 100 ft of chain plus a 22 lb Bruce on the end. It can be done but it is not easy. I am not a big muscular type. I weigh about 170 lbs and would hardly consider myself really strong. I was so tired by the end I could hardly stand and my arms were useless for about an hour! I have yet to anchor in really nasty conditions but 100 ft of chain seems like a good compromise between holding, abrasion resistance and reality. IMHO, unless you anchor consistently in coral and truly abrasive and cutting type bottoms all chain is overkill. IMHO
In front of the vee-berth bulkhead...
There is some space in front of the vee-berth bulkhead on this boat, I think. That gives you a place for the chain to fall. Underneath the front of the vee-berth, there's space for a chain/rope stack. Someone did precisely this on an O'Day 37, and posted photos on the Hunter Owners web site photo forum. Here's a link. http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73144043063&fno=17 200 feet of chain? Nah, get a combination rode and a windlass with a gypsy. 75' of chain gives you 5:1 all the way up to 15 feet.
There is some space in front of the vee-berth bulkhead on this boat, I think. That gives you a place for the chain to fall. Underneath the front of the vee-berth, there's space for a chain/rope stack. Someone did precisely this on an O'Day 37, and posted photos on the Hunter Owners web site photo forum. Here's a link. http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73144043063&fno=17 200 feet of chain? Nah, get a combination rode and a windlass with a gypsy. 75' of chain gives you 5:1 all the way up to 15 feet.
A Kellet
I always get beat up on this board every time I disclose my ground tackle, but for your potential benefit I'll expose myself yet one more time. We have a 37 foot boat with a nominal displacement of 16,500 pounds. Our primary anchor is a 45 pound CQR and our primary rode is 40 feet of chain plus 300 feet of rope rode. I also have a manual windlass. I'm probably one size (10 pounds) heavy on the anchor and possibly a bit light on the length of chain. However to compensate for the short chain length, I also use a 30 pound kellet which is usually lowered to the end of the rope rode and helps hold the angle of pull down on the anchor. Since the kellet is separately removable, the most I'm lifting is 85 pounds (45 pound anchor plus 40 pounds of chain) at one time at that's done on the manual windlass. As pointed out the rope rode provides stretch and shock cushion for the whole arrangment. We anchor in some deep and windy places. We don't drag (famous last words) and I sleep well at anchor. In my opinion 200 feet of chain without a windlass is pretty unmanageable. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
I always get beat up on this board every time I disclose my ground tackle, but for your potential benefit I'll expose myself yet one more time. We have a 37 foot boat with a nominal displacement of 16,500 pounds. Our primary anchor is a 45 pound CQR and our primary rode is 40 feet of chain plus 300 feet of rope rode. I also have a manual windlass. I'm probably one size (10 pounds) heavy on the anchor and possibly a bit light on the length of chain. However to compensate for the short chain length, I also use a 30 pound kellet which is usually lowered to the end of the rope rode and helps hold the angle of pull down on the anchor. Since the kellet is separately removable, the most I'm lifting is 85 pounds (45 pound anchor plus 40 pounds of chain) at one time at that's done on the manual windlass. As pointed out the rope rode provides stretch and shock cushion for the whole arrangment. We anchor in some deep and windy places. We don't drag (famous last words) and I sleep well at anchor. In my opinion 200 feet of chain without a windlass is pretty unmanageable. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
all chain
If you're going to anchor a lot go with all chain. On your boat 5/16 will do. 200' of 5/16 weighs about 240 lbs. and you'd be surprised how litle room it takes. If it's too far fwd you might be able to modify the anchor locker to stow the chain further aft.
If you're going to anchor a lot go with all chain. On your boat 5/16 will do. 200' of 5/16 weighs about 240 lbs. and you'd be surprised how litle room it takes. If it's too far fwd you might be able to modify the anchor locker to stow the chain further aft.
Garys' kellet is the key for rope/chain combo's
You might have seen my setup on this site. This picture is of 200' of HT chain. It's quarter inch and very strong. It's good for boats over 40'. The windlass is fast and strong. The chain comes in very fast. Almost too fast. I tried raising it from the helm the other day and the anchor flew out of the water and jumped out of the roller because I didn't know it was coming so soon. Two changes WILL be made. First is better warning paint and second is a loop over the roller to prevent the chain from jumping off. (raising from the helm is just an option to make single handing a little more versatile) This windlass is by Simpson-Lawrence (Lewmar). It weighs 15 pounds and draws 25 amps max. It is on closeout sale at West Marine. A new model has been released with an all stainless case for the same price. The chain weighs 180 pounds. To calculate the weight penalty don't forget to deduct the weight of the tackle that it replaces, including whatever lead chain you favor. On my H34 the weight penalty is not evident. The boat trims perfectly all around. It floats one inch above the designed waterline. What else,,,? Oh, the anchor locker drains to the sea directly below it. Hunter sent to me a midget clam Shell cover for the drain hole, FOR FREE. Nice folks huh? Anyway, the problem with running chain to the center of the boat is ingress/egress. How? On modern boats the forefoot is shallow. There is no path to the bilge. The area under the vee berth can be used but how do you drain it and keep it from getting foul smelling and full of crud? Same for older style bilge storage. Do you want dirty chain in your bilge? I have a washing system and that still doesn't clean the chain perfectly. And lastly, how do you keep the sea and rain out? I never found any answers so I did it this way. (see photo) And for club racing, the whole setup can be dumped at my berth in five minutes and tied to a cleat. It's legal because the Fortress stays aboard. This is photo #133 on my web site. For more of the setup, see #60-64. And all chain rode is SOOOO much easier to use!
You might have seen my setup on this site. This picture is of 200' of HT chain. It's quarter inch and very strong. It's good for boats over 40'. The windlass is fast and strong. The chain comes in very fast. Almost too fast. I tried raising it from the helm the other day and the anchor flew out of the water and jumped out of the roller because I didn't know it was coming so soon. Two changes WILL be made. First is better warning paint and second is a loop over the roller to prevent the chain from jumping off. (raising from the helm is just an option to make single handing a little more versatile) This windlass is by Simpson-Lawrence (Lewmar). It weighs 15 pounds and draws 25 amps max. It is on closeout sale at West Marine. A new model has been released with an all stainless case for the same price. The chain weighs 180 pounds. To calculate the weight penalty don't forget to deduct the weight of the tackle that it replaces, including whatever lead chain you favor. On my H34 the weight penalty is not evident. The boat trims perfectly all around. It floats one inch above the designed waterline. What else,,,? Oh, the anchor locker drains to the sea directly below it. Hunter sent to me a midget clam Shell cover for the drain hole, FOR FREE. Nice folks huh? Anyway, the problem with running chain to the center of the boat is ingress/egress. How? On modern boats the forefoot is shallow. There is no path to the bilge. The area under the vee berth can be used but how do you drain it and keep it from getting foul smelling and full of crud? Same for older style bilge storage. Do you want dirty chain in your bilge? I have a washing system and that still doesn't clean the chain perfectly. And lastly, how do you keep the sea and rain out? I never found any answers so I did it this way. (see photo) And for club racing, the whole setup can be dumped at my berth in five minutes and tied to a cleat. It's legal because the Fortress stays aboard. This is photo #133 on my web site. For more of the setup, see #60-64. And all chain rode is SOOOO much easier to use!
all chain rationale
I cruised for 13 years with 50' of chain and the rest (250') nylon (actually started with 30' but soon increased it). I now have 200' of 3/8 chain and a couple of hundred feet of nylon (which fortunately I've yet to use)and a 44 lb. Bruce. With all chain I can use a shorter scope (required in many of the crowded Bahamian anchorages), it's easier to set the anchor, and the boat skates a lot less. Of course I use a 5/8" nylon snubber. All chain is especially appreciated when it's blowing, the weight of the chain keeping the rode from becoming taught all the time. Most of the cruisers I started with in the "olden days" (pre GPS) used chain and line, nowadays a chain and line set-up is the exception. Most of the time I use about 100' so the 200' is handy as you can end for end it each season. The bottom line is I sleep much better at night.
I cruised for 13 years with 50' of chain and the rest (250') nylon (actually started with 30' but soon increased it). I now have 200' of 3/8 chain and a couple of hundred feet of nylon (which fortunately I've yet to use)and a 44 lb. Bruce. With all chain I can use a shorter scope (required in many of the crowded Bahamian anchorages), it's easier to set the anchor, and the boat skates a lot less. Of course I use a 5/8" nylon snubber. All chain is especially appreciated when it's blowing, the weight of the chain keeping the rode from becoming taught all the time. Most of the cruisers I started with in the "olden days" (pre GPS) used chain and line, nowadays a chain and line set-up is the exception. Most of the time I use about 100' so the 200' is handy as you can end for end it each season. The bottom line is I sleep much better at night.
Another idea
I read on another board that a guy was going with a 60' chain and 200' rope on the bow and two 100' chains in the bilge just incase he needed more chain. He would connect the chains with something...can't remember that detail. The kellet is a great idea and also helps to keep the rode away from the keel and rudder. However, I read that it's only suppose to go down to just before it touches bottom which shouldn't be much more then the distance to the bottom, so letting it go all the way to the chain may not be what you want. My boat came with 20' chain and 300' rope. I think I'll keep it that way until I head to the south pacific where it's all coral. Coral is where you really need mostly or all chain.
I read on another board that a guy was going with a 60' chain and 200' rope on the bow and two 100' chains in the bilge just incase he needed more chain. He would connect the chains with something...can't remember that detail. The kellet is a great idea and also helps to keep the rode away from the keel and rudder. However, I read that it's only suppose to go down to just before it touches bottom which shouldn't be much more then the distance to the bottom, so letting it go all the way to the chain may not be what you want. My boat came with 20' chain and 300' rope. I think I'll keep it that way until I head to the south pacific where it's all coral. Coral is where you really need mostly or all chain.
OK, That's the second comment about using
all chain because of coral. Very BAD! That is an old practice that is very frowned on these days. Chain destroys coral. Anchor over sand, never near coral. It's too beautiful and endangered to damage. (Unless you're French and have an extra atom bomb to test) Oops, sorry Phil. Anyway, if you pull into Grand Caymans and drop your anchor they can take your boat, fine you many thousand of dollars and put you in jail for 5 years. They have moorings and are serious about protecting their tourist trade; the sea.
all chain because of coral. Very BAD! That is an old practice that is very frowned on these days. Chain destroys coral. Anchor over sand, never near coral. It's too beautiful and endangered to damage. (Unless you're French and have an extra atom bomb to test) Oops, sorry Phil. Anyway, if you pull into Grand Caymans and drop your anchor they can take your boat, fine you many thousand of dollars and put you in jail for 5 years. They have moorings and are serious about protecting their tourist trade; the sea.
coral or your life?
bit green that post but hey I understand, one almost never anchors on top of coral, too easy to lose the pick But yes a swinging rode can damage coral. but so will laid up rope rode There is an advantage with chain apart from the obvious, and that is it is noisy, it warns you when things are not quite right, when it grinds on the bow roller you know you are anchored!!, when its quiet, (in a blow) you know you are dragging. as for stowing chain, we use a 400 dia, 16 inch to you foreigners ,plastic farm drain pipe pipe, , for a chain bin, it can go from floor to deck, and is quiet and does not rust, It would be hard but not impossible to install one of these forwards of your mast and relocate your windlass, this gets the weight aft. other than that many small boats make a pile of the stuff near the mast, on deck(in a wooden tray), on passage it can be stowed bilgewise
bit green that post but hey I understand, one almost never anchors on top of coral, too easy to lose the pick But yes a swinging rode can damage coral. but so will laid up rope rode There is an advantage with chain apart from the obvious, and that is it is noisy, it warns you when things are not quite right, when it grinds on the bow roller you know you are anchored!!, when its quiet, (in a blow) you know you are dragging. as for stowing chain, we use a 400 dia, 16 inch to you foreigners ,plastic farm drain pipe pipe, , for a chain bin, it can go from floor to deck, and is quiet and does not rust, It would be hard but not impossible to install one of these forwards of your mast and relocate your windlass, this gets the weight aft. other than that many small boats make a pile of the stuff near the mast, on deck(in a wooden tray), on passage it can be stowed bilgewise
how does it get there?
It seems that that's an awful long run and knowing chain it usually kinks up and jams.
It seems that that's an awful long run and knowing chain it usually kinks up and jams.
moorings in South Pacific
Moorings? where? also what you have to know is that, most of the south pacific is remote, sometimes you are anchored 500 mile from a town or even another boat, moorings are a scourge , just another revenue earner, and another way of how not to teach seamanship I like my boating to be rule free, respect the enviroment sure, but officials everywhere!! blah NZ does not even have a boat licensing regime, the people won't allow it, although to go foreign the boat needs registration
Moorings? where? also what you have to know is that, most of the south pacific is remote, sometimes you are anchored 500 mile from a town or even another boat, moorings are a scourge , just another revenue earner, and another way of how not to teach seamanship I like my boating to be rule free, respect the enviroment sure, but officials everywhere!! blah NZ does not even have a boat licensing regime, the people won't allow it, although to go foreign the boat needs registration
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