Anchor chain and rode - what is the answer?

[redunculous]

So

I'll first off start by saying that I have read countless posts, all with different answers / arguments and suggestions. I've been on websites that offer you calculations and lovely pictures.

Still I scratch my head

I have a 40.5 Hunter (I'm sure by now with all my posts people know this - I apologise for the constant repetition lol)

The PO had 200ft of chain (3/8), it was in very poor condition and after de-rusting and painting I have salvaged 70ft.

I sought advice from the people in the boatyard I was hauled out at and was told on several occasions that 20ft of chain was more than enough for an anchor.

As I wish to use 2 anchors I bought 300ft of 3/4 line - this is spring line which was not originally what I ordered and the size was different but time was against me and the line maker (recommended by the boat yard) reassured me that it would do what I needed it to do with no problems. Please remember I'm a first time boat buyer, things are overwhelming as information comes from a 1000 people who either have your best interest at heart or there wallets so I never know. Precisely why I post here...

I was going to cut the chain in half and do 35ft with 120 ft rode for each anchor, this would leave me line for docking, plus with a combined length of 150ft I can anchor in 20ft on a 7:1 ratio with little issue.

I plan to sail the east coast (FL - Keys) and the Caribbean

What should I have on board?

My anchors are a 35lb bruce and a 35lb manson supreme

Thanks in advance

Redunc

 

[Bill Roosa]

Hey Redunc
The opinion of the 1001th person is:
Chain is very resistant to abrasion
Chain is very heavy and lays in a "flatter" more horizontal fashion for a given length of rode
Chain is very heavy and tends to weigh down the front of the boat
Chain does not stretch AT ALL!
Rope is less abrasion resistant
Rope is lighter
Rope (nylon) stretches a lot and absorbs shock.
The type of bottom is more of an anchor choice, than a rode choice

Things you have to consider:
Am I going to be anchoring in abrasive grounds like coral heads (chain preferred)
Am I going to be anchoring in waters where the swell will put repetitive type loads on the anchor system? (rope preferred)
How deep is the max depth of water your intending to anchor in? (rode length)
How much weight can I tolerate forward in the anchor locker? (ratio of chain to rope)
How big a swinging radius can you tolerate?(ratio of chain to rope)

You are trying to attach the anchor to the boat in such a fashion to balance the above.

A couple of observations about anchoring:
Coral heads do no occur in deep water, so you don't need 500' of chain to be safe. You just need enough chain to get the rode above the coral heads.
All anchors benefit from more rode as that makes the angle of pull they experience more horizontal. This helps set and keep set the anchor even if the wind shifts. Course all that rode makes your swinging radius huge also.
anchoring in shallow water "usually" means you don't want to have a big swinging radius due to high numbers of fellow boaters doing the same. Anchoring in deep water "usually" means you can tolerate more swinging radius.

Soooo what Bill? you ask?
Having chain on the anchor end of your rode is pretty handy. The exact ratio is dependent on what kind of anchoring you intend to do. Abrasive anchorages demand chain if you are going to get any sleep at night. But abrasive anchorages are usually shallow ones so if you can anchor in 20' of water using all chain, (20+5)*5=125' of chain is the max length of chain you would ever need on the end. That also addresses the swinging radius problem. It does require you to have a snubber as you are in "all chain" mode in shallow anchorages.

My opinion is put a 100' of chain and 200' of 3/4" nylon and buy/make a snubber.

 

[Rich Stidger]

As usual Bill makes good sense with his recommendations.

My 1002 take: I have 160' of 5/16 G4 chain and a 45# Manson Supreme on my 40.5. My reason for this selection is that I found that all chain ran flawlessly in my windlass gypsy whereas the rope portion of the rode that I originally used would often jump out unless it was under a light/moderate load.

IMHO, 3/8 chain is way overkill. 5/16" G4 weighs 1.1#/ft with a MWL of 3900#. 3/8" proof weighs 1.4#/ft and has a MWL 2650#. When you replace your chain, I would buy the 5/16" G4 for a stronger chain with 20% less weight. I have a 15' piece of 3/4" line with a chain hook for a snubber. I chose 3/4" for the snubber because it is easier to handle than a smaller line. 3/4" line for the entire anchor rode is again overkill. 9/16" nylon is the size most windlasses require. If you don't have a windlass, 5/8" would be fine. But I understand that you have what you have.

I anchor in mud, sand, grassy bottoms up to abut 35' in depth. I carry my original 9/16" nylon rode of 160' to add to my chain if needed. So far it hasn't been required.

OK number 1003- the stage is yours.

 

[redunculous]

Finally answers! Thank you guys!

I guess I shall relegate the 70ft of salvaged chain to the secondary anchor then and utilise the remaining 100ft of nylon for it also so I have a decent backup

I'll purchase 5/16th G4 (need to check my windlass) on my return - length undecided, might test how the spring line I have runs on the windlass (thanks Rich)


Would you braid the line to the chain just out of curiosity?

Oh and I was going to have both anchors mounted on the front at all times - wise idea or?

It seems that the 300ft of line I have is going to be rather useless in this scenario, anyone need some spring lines?

 

[Bill1565]

1003. We used to live aboard. Anchoring in 65kt thunderstorms and 60 kt hurricane fringes with 6' surge taught me to love over kill.

I have to have a windlass to do it, but I use 3/8" G4 with my 45# cqr. I have a Fortress F-37 with a combo chain and 5/8" nylon rode for soft stuff when the cqr drags at 3000 rpm in reverse. I keep both on the bow at all times. Too old and tired at the end of the day to be moving heavy iron around.

 

[Rick D]

Two Anchors

I ran two anchors off the bow rollers for a (very) short time. It tended to be a PITA. and I had the rode foul on the second one once in calm conditions (I still don't know how). Understand, however, us SoCal guys don't typically do that much anchoring. I have 40' of 5/16 G4 + three-strand rode of 200'. If I were anchoring more often, I'd have 80 of chain and 300' for SoCal's deep water (except in coastal designated anchorages; commonly deep water in the Channel Islands).

 

[Rich Stidger]

Redunuclous-

Before you buy chain and rode, be sure to check what your windlass requires. It is possible that your windlass gypsy uses 3/8" chain and a rope rode that is not 9/16".

Yes I would braid the chain and rode if I wanted the joint to run smoothly through the windlass. If that is not a hard requirement, then put an eye splice in the rode and a shackle connection to the chain. Braiding or splicing any line that is used is much harder than with new line.

 

[redunculous]

Thanks Rich

Windlass check is on my list

 

[seadaddler]

Windlass

Yes you need to check your model windlass what chain and rode to use which I just did this past year.
I have been very happy switching to 100' chain and 150 rode for my windlass and any time I have anchored over night put out the 100' chain with 35 Delta for my 36' Hunter and sleep real good even this past year being out in a real wicked storm,we swung around a lot even with real strong wave action and wind but did not drag our anchor at all.
All that chain lays down real well and holds the anchor in place really good,I made the mistake putting out 50'chain and 25' rode one nite at the Dry Tortugas on a real nice calm night but a storm came through and we did drag quit a bit so now no matter what I put out 100' of chain all the time and have not had a problem dragging since
Nick

 

[Benny17441]

In Florida and the Bahams you will do well with 35' of chain and 150' of line. You will likely be anchoring in a sandy bottom with no more than 20' of water. Get additional dock lines.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Before you decide on less rode consider that it can be use in other fashions also.
Tying to trees in VERY SNUG harbors
attaching a drogue (not a fan of them myself but sailing safely is all about options)
Careening the boat (mast height*6 or 7) to inspect/repair the bottom, to get you off that sand bar with only your dingy (and it's anchor) when no one is around
as a tow rope.

All these require lots of line.