Amsteel (Dyneema) Standing Rigging

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Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
I am converting my heavy SS standing rig to Amsteel Blue. Unfortunately, I had to destroy the old standing rigging wires to remove them from the brackets and tangs, so there is no going back!

This project involes the sidestays only and I have new turnbuckles for adjustment. I am using 1/4 inch diameter line on the lowers and 5/16 inch diameter on the uppers. I anticipate a certain amount of initial stretch, probably more than the tbuckles can adjust, so I am using extenders of about 1 inch at the chainplates.

I fabricated new spreaders today. Although I'd like to bisect the spreader angle above and below equally, that is not going to happen unless the spreader brackets are made to do that. I will settle for having the spreaders the same distance down the upper shrouds.

I have already replaced the backstay with dyneema. It is adjustable (3 to 1 block and tackle), but really plays no part in the basic standing rigging. The basic standing rigging on my Mac D is the forestay, and the 2 upper shrouds. A friend with another D likes to see 700 lbs on the uppers and 200 on the forestay on a windy day. I'll be tensioning my rig to these values on initial setup.

I decided to install a Johnson lever on my forestay, since I am customizing this rig. The additional 6 inches added to my forestay will increase the rake considerably, but not by 6 inches. Since I have an aftermarket rudder assy (ruddercraft), I do not anticipate tiller pressure problems that the steering cannot handle. The forestay will remain SS for now....

Of course, the lower sidestays are used to bring the mast back into column. I have no idea what tension that will require, just make them equal. The deflection of the mast at the lowers is forward, because the spreaders are swept aft.

The fabrication of the shrouds is easy. I am using SS thimbles at all ends, siezing the Amsteel at the two ends of the hidden tail, and using adhesive lined heat shrink the cover the ends of the thimble and assure the dyneema stays put. The fabrications look very professional.

As soon as it cools off a little tonight, I will assemble the stays on the mast and stand up the pole. I indend to use quick release pins at the base of the turnbuckles to allow complete removal of the standing rig for trailering. I use a mast sock to hide my halyards from the sun, now my sidestays will be encased in fabric and out of the sun as well.

Since I never leave my rig up for more than a day, I do not expect to have much issue with creep. Releasing the Johnson lever will loosen the rig enough for extended outings. Besides the weight aloft savings, and the freedom of completely removed side shrouds, and the substantial strength increase, the use of Amsteel by creating eyes with hidden tails is an easy task that most sailors can handle. The ability to fabricate extremely strong lightweight components is a marvelous advancement. If you are interested in Dyneema or Amsteel check out Samson's or Colligo's websites. Pics to come....
 
Oct 16, 2008
512
MacGregor/Venture 25 Mesa AZ
I understand that with the Dyneema for rigging on a trailerable sailboat, that the tendency to have a kink will be minimized. That alone has caused me to consider using it.
 
Apr 29, 2012
233
Macgregor Venture 25 Council Bluffs, IA
"If you are interested in Dyneema or Amsteel check out Samson's or Colligo's websites. Pics to come...."

I'd like some links.

edit,

I did a google search on Amsteel and Dyneema and found lots of info. When I first read the post I figured Samson or Colligo were personal websites.


Ron
 

dawg2

.
Jun 25, 2012
173
Mac Gregor 26D GA
Just curious but why use rope instead of stainless? I just put a popup clamcleat for a rudder release on my MacGregor26D and used 1/4" Amsteel for the rope. It ois very tough, doesn't stretch, but I don't foresee replacing my stainless steel with Amsteel for stays. What is the advantage?
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
weight aloft, and the pendulum effect, = less heeling = faster
 
Oct 21, 2010
350
Macgregor 26S, "Myuna" Brisbane, Australia
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Just curious but why use rope instead of stainless? I just put a popup clamcleat for a rudder release on my MacGregor26D and used 1/4" Amsteel for the rope. It ois very tough, doesn't stretch, but I don't foresee replacing my stainless steel with Amsteel for stays. What is the advantage?
This mod is not for everyone and maybe not for anyone. Weight aloft minimization, avoidance of kinks, extra strength, excellent indication of impending failure, abilirty to replace standing rigging without special tools, full circle from hemp rope to SS wire to now ropelike rigging, I'll think of some others. My SS rig experienced elongation to the point I could no longer tighten the stock vernier adjusters, no more travel.
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
I stood up the rig by temporarily tying off the turnbuckles. There is way too much rake with the johnson lever installed. Thinking about Amsteel forestay, I've got plenty of rope.
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Wouldn't one put the johnson lever on the forestay where the turnbuckle was. As in replace the turnbuckle with the johnson lever?
 
Apr 29, 2012
233
Macgregor Venture 25 Council Bluffs, IA
As I understand it, you still need a turnbuckle. You adjust the tension with the Johnson in the closed position. Then when you want to release tension, you open the Johnson that releases tension. But when closed tension is restored in the rigging as previously set.
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Yeah I was thinking about a Johnson lever and a turnbuckle. To do that on my boat requires a new forestay (at least 8 extra inches of increased forestay length with the Johnson lever alone). I have been slowly replacing all of my standing rigging, and I was going to leave the forestay SSteel, because of the potential damage due to sail hanks on the forestay. Now I'll increase my inspection for damage every time I step the mast, probably a good idea anyway for everyone.

Interestingly, mast rake is a much talked over yet controversial subject. Some posters claim opposed results for increasing mast rake effect. I like the relationship to mast rake that a windsurfer uses to control his board. Others may disagree, but the amount of mast rake introduced by installing a Johnson lever at the base of my forestay is way too much without shortening. I MAY be able to swage a new eye, and thereby shorten it and keep the SS.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
As I understand it, you still need a turnbuckle. You adjust the tension with the Johnson in the closed position. Then when you want to release tension, you open the Johnson that releases tension. But when closed tension is restored in the rigging as previously set.
Yep, that is correct. A person might still be able to remove the turnbuckle if they get the forestay length close as there are a couple adjustment holes in the lever. I know of one person who did this...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/misc-pics-9.html

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/misc-pics-10.html

... and used the original forestay with just a Johnson lever. There is no turnbuckle inside the furling drum. He got by without having a new forestay made. I did have a new forestay made...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

...and kept the turnbuckle with the Johnson lever.

I think John is saying he doesn't like the rake, but since he has more amsteel it won't be a problem making up a new forestay (edit: I guess I was typing while John was and maybe didn't get it right :redface:),

Sum
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
I am going to Ruddercraft in a few mins to shorten my current forestay and see if it will still work. If it ends up too short, I'll fab up a dyneema forestay
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
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lixq$GALE BAIT'S DECK LAYOUT
Here is a diagram of Gale Bait's deck layout with a list of the parts I used. Keep in mind that
I'm a fairly fanatical race type and speed, control, and east of racing with a crew of 2 are my
main focus. There are 8 different functions routed aft to the cockpit, 1eft to right: cunningham" 2
jiffu reefing lines, daggerboard hoist, main halyard,2headsail halyards, and
jib downhaul.
Using 2 Ronstan triple blocks, one each side of the mast base and2 Harken triple small boat
deck organizerc,I routed lines around both sides of the pop-top, staying as clear of the snaps for
the vinyl cover as possible.
On port, the cunningham runs from the sail grommet and hook down to the port side triple block,
to a Harken 6:1 magic box, tlrough the outboard sheave on the port deck organizer, through the
stanchion base, and back to a small Ronstan v-cleat on the outboard edge of the cabin top. Next,
the reefing lines for both reef points come offthe boom at the gooseneck, down through the port
triple block and deck organizer and back to the port winch, passing through mini-bullseye
fairleads and small v-cleats located so that when tightened on the winch, each reef line drops
right into its respective v-cleat, allowing it to be taken offthe winch. Next, the hoist line for the
daggerboard starts at a bullseye fitting on the starboard side of the well, goes down to a Harken
upright bullet block mounted on top of the daggerboard, up to another upright bullet block and
out to a Harken bullet cheek block mounted inside the port deck organizer and back to a righthanded clam-cleat mounted
just outside the edge of the pop-top.
On starboard, the main halyard goes through the triple block, the inboard sheave of the deck
orgarizer, and back to the cabin top winch, passing through the left port of a Lewmar triple rope
clutch. The spare (spinnaker) halyard and the
jib/genoa halyard pass through the center and right
sheaves of the triple clock and the deck organizer to the other 2 ports of the rope clutch and to
the right side winch. The clutch allows the halyards to be tightened (tight if necessary for strong
wind conditions) and then removed from the winch. And last but not least, the
jib dor'vnhaul (l/8
nylon line) starts with an Ace Hardware store clip on the top
jib hank, passing through a Harken
small upright bullet block in front of the forestay tang, threaded through the stantion bases, back
to a mini-bullseye and small v-cleat at the far right edge of the cabin top. To organize all the
spaghetti, we have a row of 4 Ronstan line hangers on each side of the companionway.
Obviously with all the halyards run back to the cabin top winches, it makes sense to add2
winches on the coaming to handle the
jib and genoa sheets. I found 2 used Barient 18s
for $100 each, though any pair of small to mid-size winches will do. We route both
jib and
genoa sheets through the cabin top lead blocks, down to upright lead blocks next to each winch,
around the winch, then to a choice of cam-cleats. One is mounted aft on the coaming for light air
conditions and the other is on the vertical face
just below the cockpit bench seat for higher winds
when you are sheeting from the high side. This way you can brace your feet to sheet in tight
then
just drop the line into the cam-cleat below the seat in front of you. I used 3 feet of l-inch
track on the cabin top for the genoa leads, drilling additional pin-holes for finer adjustments. For
working
jib leads, I mounted I foot of 1-inch track in place of the bullseyes that were original
equipment. This layout works really well, especially racing or sailing short-handed, since the
sheets can be reached from the helm.
Well, that's the basic layout. For most people it's probably a bit over the edge but I'm a bit over
the edge about racing and that's my excuse!GALE BAIT'S DECK LAYOUT PARTS LIST
A. Harken Cam Cleat #365 (or equivalent)
B. Ronstan V-Cleat, Medium #5105
C. Cam Cleat
-
Lateral STBD #2060
D. Ronstan Triple Block #1262
E. Harken Triple Deck Organizer #271
F. Harken Bullet Cheek Block #092
G. Harken Bullet Upright Lead Block #A96
H. HarkenMagic Box 6:1
I. Ronstan Fairlead Stand-up Block #1277
J. Schaefer Stand-up Lead Block #506-62
K. Used Winch (Barient 18) Any small pair will do.
L. Harken Cam Cleat #423
M. Ronstan Mini-Bullseye Fairlead #RF9
N. Lewmar Triple Clutch #29101308
O. Small Eyestrap
P. Harken Small Boat Trave ler 2:I #210
Q. Low Profile Traveler Track
- Harken #154-60 (Mounted onYe" Lexan shim)
R. Heavy Duty Endstop
- Harken #264
S. 1 inch T-Track -
3 feet long with extra pin holes drilled about | 318" spacing
T. 1 inch T-Track
-
1 foot long with extra pin holes drilled about I 318" spacingHi, guys,
If this posting looks familiar, that's because I've revised it slightly for clarification
after receiving some feedback and a couple of requests to post it back on the list. Soooo,
if you were bored last time, you REALLY will be this time! If you're interested and can
use it, I think the tuning steps are a bit clearer now. Thanks....KS
There's been a thread lately on the subject of mast bend and the
effects of headstay, backstay, and shroud tension. In the process of trying
to make my boat heel less and sail faster, I've been studying rig tuning for
several years and have tried several approaches on our boat. I got a lot of
good info from Todd McChesney of Blue Water Yachts in Seattle and Paul
Killeen of Macken (now Ullrnan) Sails in Vancouver, BC., who have been working
together for years to make theM26 and M26X perform better. So for what it's
worth, here's my take on rig tuning as it applies to Macs, particularly the
M26. Sorry, but it's pretty looong, so if you bore easily, stand by with the
delete key!
Rig tuning is a subject that confuses a lot of Mac sailors, especially
since Roger Mac doesn't give instructions on how to do it properly and gives
us Vernier shroud adjusters, which are durable but hard to get tight enough
and even harder to tighten evenly from side to side (unlike turnbuckles). On
a fractional rig with swept spreaders like the Mac, the headstay length
determines the amount of mast rake and the headstay and outer shrouds support
the mast in triangular fashion, so that when tuned properly the backstay
doesn't actually support the mast except as a backup when sailing downwind.
There are also 2 kinds of mast bend. Once you set the headstay length
and tighten the outer shrouds, the mast begins to bend as the swept spreaders
force its center section forward. This is called prebend (or static bend), and is fairly
uniform over the mast length, since the spreaders are in about the middle of the
mast. The amount of prebend is then controlled by tightening the inner
shrouds, which pulls the center of the mast back and reduces the bow in the
mast. The amount of prebend is set to match the designed luffcurve of the
main sail, so to achieve the designed sail shape for a main with2 inches of
luffcurve, you'd want2 inches of prebend. For a fuller initial sail shape
use less prebend, for a flatter shape use more prebend.
Tightening the backstay does 2 things: 1) it tightens the headstay to
a limited degree, reducing headstay sag and flattening the jib and2) it
gives a different tlpe of bend to the mast, since in this case you're
leveraging the top of the mast against the headstay, which is attached
several feet down. This is done while sailing in strong wind when you want to
depower the sails, and puts a bend in about the top ll3 to Ll2 of the mast,
which flattens the upper portion of the main while moving the draft slightly
aft. Tightening the dorvnhaul or cunningham a bit will bring the draft back
forward, and the bottom half of the sail can be flattened using a combinationof outhaul, boom vang and mainsheet trinr, but that's another subject. The
point is that the backstay shouldn't be tight when you set the boat up, since
prebend is provided by the shrouds. The fact that Roger Mac provides a backstay with
Vemier adjusters on it makes new Mac sailors think that it needs to be tight. Not so! A
backstay adjuster is used when underway, and is easily added by cutting the backstay
several feet above the deck, swaging in a thimble loop, and adding 3: I or 4:1 tackle with
camcleat (a boom vang tackle works great) between the thimble and aft chainplate tang.
Besides being useful for flattening the upper main and the
jib, a
backstay adjuster is a big help when you're tuning the rig, allowing you to
get the outer shrouds tight. The following is the step by step tuning method
I use on my boat, adapted from Bill Gladstone's book'Perfofinance Racing
Trim', which is the textbook for the North U. Racing Trim Course offered
around the country eachyear. I'm not saying that this is the only way or
best way to tune a Mac. There are other tuning philosophies out there and
other ideas as to what works best so make your own decisions, but I find this
method works well, is easy to do, and gives me control over my rig tuning and
sail shape while I'm on the water.
Tuning a Mac Fractional Rig
1. Level the boat on the trailer, both fore/aft and side to side.
2. With the headstay turnbuckle adjusted to its shortest length, set up the
mast with the inner shrouds loose and the outers
just hand tight, enough to
take up any slack.
3. Center the mast from side to side using the outers...loosen one side as you tighten the
other, so it's still
just hand tight. I measure to the chainplate trim rivets on each side
using the main halyard or a line attached to the mast track atthe top. It also helps to use a
carpenter's level to check that the mast is vertical. Then tighten the lowers
just enough to
take out the slack while making sure that there's no sideways bend in the mast. (or
forelaft bend either at this point).
4. Note the amount of mast rake, using a plumb bob or heary object tied to
the main haiyard. On my I\[26D,I look for about 8-10 inches. More on this below.
5. Pull the backstay adjuster tight, which bows the mast and slackens the outers. Tighten
the outers the same amount on each side, and release the backstay adjuster. The outers
will now be quite tight, with several inches of prebend in the mast.
6. Adjust the inner shrouds the same amount on each side to achieve the desired amount
of prebend (I Il2 to 2 inches seems to be a good place to start for stock Mac sails),
sighting up the mast to make sure it stays straight from side to side. You're now finished.
The rake should still measure about the same as in step 4.
This is now your tightest rig setting, and as you loosen the headstay
tumbuckle, the rig will get proportionally looser while the prebend stays
the same. Buying (or borrowing) a Loos tension gage will allow you to
measure the tension for the lange of adjustment of the headstay, but isn'treally necessary. If you don't have a quick release on the headstay, loosen
the headstay turnbuckle all the way and make sure you can get the pin in and
out when setting up and tearing down. If not, go back to steps 5 and 6 and
loosen the outers a bit.
Optionals: Here are some other optional mods you can do to make tuning
easier.
1) Rigid spreader brackets: The pivoting spreaders on the Macs work OK as
swept spreaders in supporting the mast since they seek their own angle based
on the chainplate locations, but for more stability, Gladstone recommends
fixed spreaders. You can get the fixed spreader brackets from MacGregor,
Havencraft, or Blue Water Yachts for 50 or 60 bucks.
2) Turnbuckles for the shrouds: The Mac Vernier shroud adjusters will work
with this tuning procedure, but switching to turnbuckles makes it easier to
adjust shroud tension equally. I recommend oversized turnbuckles if you
trailer the boat a lot, to minimize the possibility of them getting bent or
weakened, and using shroud gloves or PVC pipe boots over the turnbuckles will
help protect them also.
3) Quick
release lever for the headstay: This allows you to leave the
headstay tumbuckle set where you want it, and
just pop the quick release to adjust the
turnbuckle easily or to slack the rig for setup and takedown. If you have a roller furler,
you can put quick release levers on both outers and accomplish much the same effect.
4) Cahbrated tumbuckle for the headstay: This allows you to repeat your
settings easily for different conditions. Great for racing, but probably not
worth it otherwise. For a photo of the quick release and calibrated
turnbuckle along with part numbers, see Gale Bait's page on Bob White's
website.
When Sailing:
In light air I adjust the headstay turnbuckle as loose as it will go,
which allows the headstay to sag a bit and put more power in the genoa (it
also rakes the mast a bit which helps pointing ability), and as the wind
comes up, I tighten the headstay turnbuckle to control the headstay sag,
which keeps the headsail close to its designed shape, and reduces the mast rake. At about
12 knots of wind (whitecaps starting), I downsize to the working
jib, at 15 knots I put a
reef in the mairU and by about 20 knots I have the turnbuckle tightened all the way so that
the headstay sag is only 5 or 6 inches, allowing me to keep the
jib flat and depowered,
which controls heel and helps prevent excessive weather helrn. Above 20 knots I also
have the main reefed and depowered using the backstay adjuster and the other mainsail
controls. You'll need to experiment to find out what rig tension works best for your sails
and the kind of sailing you do.
Caution: It's possible to get the rig quite tight using this
procedure, especially if you have turnbuckles and headstay quick release
lever (My tightest setting is: headstay 280#, outers 450#, inners 200#). Theboat's plenty strong, but it's a good idea to check the shroud chainplates
regularly, and reinforce them ifyou sail a lot in strong wind and waves
(e.g., San Francisco Bay) with the rig really tight. Depending on the type
of sailing you do and the conditions, you Inzly not want that much tension
anyway. I sail mostly in light to moderate air (with an occasional windy
day) and inspect mine regularly and have never had a problem in 4 years.
As far as the headstay length goes, it's best to start with the stock
headstay length, tune the rig, then see how the boat sails. Sailing
close-hauled in moderate wind conditions with the heel angle 15-20 degrees
(if you've tuned using this method, the headstay turnbuckle should be about
midrange), the weather helm should be light, with 2 to 5 degrees of
rudder/tiller deflection to keep the boat sailing straight (for a tiller 5
feet long, tlTat's 2" to 5" deflection from the centerline). If the weather
helrn is more than that, you may want to shorten the headstay by an tnch or 2
and see if that fixes it. In the case of the l\I26D, it's notorious for
excessive weather helrrU so shortening the headstay usually helps. My owners
manual recommends 3 degrees of mast rake, which for a28'mast is 17" of rake
measured with a plumb bob. My boat balances best with about 10" of rake,
which required shortening the headstay by about 2 inches. Your mileage may
^
uury, as they say. Note: if you accidently cut your headstay a bit too short and end up
with lee helm (experience speaking here),
just add a 1" eye-jaw toggle to the headstay at
either the top or bottom....you don't have to start over with a new headstay.
Once you settle on the right headstay length and get the rig tuned,
you can set the rig tension for whatever conditions you're in, which really
helps the boat perform and makes it more seaworthy when the wind pipes up.
Agaur, this system works for me, racing and daysailing in wind generally well
under 20 knots and waves under 2 feet (usually flat water). If another
method works better for you, by all means use it. If you're still with me,
thanks for listening, it seems that unloading on one of my favorite subjects
now and then is therapeutic.
Keith Sander
88 M26D Gale Bait
Boise,ID
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
It has a been a few days since I have posted my progress in converting my standing rigging to dyneema. I have to report that I now consider dyneema as inappropriate for rigging my boat, and here is why:

One of the great characteristics of our boats is the ability to quickly rig and unrig our trailerable boats. Dyneema does not like this procedure, it contracts and stretches too much as it is tensioned and untensioned. The procedure for creating an eye on 12 strand dyneema relies on the outer sheath compressing on the inner end of the line. The length of the shroud thus created is made constant by siezing the eye at its two ends by sewing through the line. This construct would be fine if it were tensioned constantly on a mast that was left up for a season. When the tension on the shroud is released as would typically occur when trailering the boat, it is my experience that the dyneema contracts, and it contracts more than the typical turnbuckle adjustment can handle. Note that I am not talking about creep, a wholly different subject.

A project like this does reveal other interesting data, though. For one thing, I have proven that the mast will stand up with 3 wires. I mean that the mast (without sails) will stand up with a forestay and any other 2 wires of the sidestays. Example: forestay and 2 uppers, or forestay and an upper and lower.

Another item is the spreader brackets. Since the tang at the bottom is welded to the spreader brackets, and if the tangs point directly at the side chainplates (due to the lower stays), then there is only one place the spreader ends will intercept the upper shrouds. This point is not necessarily the point of bisection of the angles formed by the upper shrouds. Just sayin.... On my new rig I will have tangs for the lower stays independent of the spreader brackets.

If you read the tutorial on tuning the fractional rig I posted previously, note that sources at Bluewater Yachts and Macgregor give a range of mast rake up to 17 inches aft of the mast. WTF that is a lot of rake. For me, starting from scratch to make a new standing rig, I will be starting with the forestay length, which determines rake. The 4 other shrouds are cut to length to accomodate the forestay length.

I now have some beautiful Dyneema shrouds that I will find a use for....going back to SS wire.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Yep, that is correct. A person might still be able to remove the turnbuckle if they get the forestay length close as there are a couple adjustment holes in the lever. I know of one person who did this...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/misc-pics-9.html

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/misc-pics-10.html

... and used the original forestay with just a Johnson lever. There is no turnbuckle inside the furling drum. He got by without having a new forestay made. I did have a new forestay made...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

...and kept the turnbuckle with the Johnson lever.

I think John is saying he doesn't like the rake, but since he has more amsteel it won't be a problem making up a new forestay (edit: I guess I was typing while John was and maybe didn't get it right :redface:),

Sum
I agree with you sum.... I dont really see the need for the turnbuckle when adding a johnson lever. you can get it close to perfect with the adjustments available in the johnson lever and then adjust the rest of the rigging for perfect tension all around. for most of us, what is a half inch of rake one way or another in the mast.... 'specially us trailer sailors. if your not a trailer sailor, whats the point of a johnson lever in this context?
when i added mine, it was a direct swap out with the turnbuckle and no adjusting of anything else.

and amsteel for rigging on a pleasure boat?
as for any brand of kevlar type rigging, I wouldnt consider it as a forestay because it will abrade where the jib hanks ride. it may be abrasion resistant, but not abrasion proof or even as good as stainless steel. the more tension (load) its under, the easier and quicker it will chafe and weaken. the weight savings is negligible because the total weight of the stays and turnbuckles are around 25 lbs and although it is all above the waterline, it is not all high in the air.... in my opinion the true realized weight savings isnt worth the cost of using kevlar rigging on a pleasure craft.
some of this stainless rigging in use today is over 40 years old and still going, (although it should be replaced) how may of you would trust 6yr old kevlar? the racing boats use it for a number of reasons, but they also have it replaced regularly.... Ive spent 23years in the rigging business and I like what has been proven over the years and I dont believe in all the claims made by manufactures..... just my thoughts.
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
I agree with you sum.... I dont really see the need for the turnbuckle when adding a johnson lever. you can get it close to perfect with the adjustments available in the johnson lever and then adjust the rest of the rigging for perfect tension all around. for most of us, what is a half inch of rake one way or another in the mast.... 'specially us trailer sailors. if your not a trailer sailor, whats the point of a johnson lever in this context?
when i added mine, it was a direct swap out with the turnbuckle and no adjusting of anything else.

and amsteel for rigging on a pleasure boat?
as for any brand of kevlar type rigging, I wouldnt consider it as a forestay because it will abrade where the jib hanks ride. it may be abrasion resistant, but not abrasion proof or even as good as stainless steel. the more tension (load) its under, the easier and quicker it will chafe and weaken. the weight savings is negligible because the total weight of the stays and turnbuckles are around 25 lbs and although it is all above the waterline, it is not all high in the air.... in my opinion the true realized weight savings isnt worth the cost of using kevlar rigging on a pleasure craft.
some of this stainless rigging in use today is over 40 years old and still going, (although it should be replaced) how may of you would trust 6yr old kevlar? the racing boats use it for a number of reasons, but they also have it replaced regularly.... Ive spent 23years in the rigging business and I like what has been proven over the years and I dont believe in all the claims made by manufactures..... just my thoughts.
listen up--kevlar and dyneema are compltely different materials. as far as damage to a headstay- dyneema warns the inspector by becoming fuzzy. no substitute for regular inspection.

turnbuckle and johnson lever offers quick and easy forestay pinning for single-hander who does not rig any mast raising device- just lift and pin. also there is too little adjustment in the johnson lever itself for any kind of realistic rig tune

there is always resistance to new ideas. i have found dyneema to be harder to work with on mt boat. if i had a sailboat that was constantly rigged, i'd replace all my standing rigging with dyneema. whatever i do, i don't make decisions lightly, i do the research and then test the item myself. i never want to parrot someone else's opinion.
 
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