Americas Cup

[Tim R.]

Personally, I think the Americas Cup should have the rules changed so that the Cup becomes about the sailing, and not about the lawyers or the budgets... Each year they should pick a production boat and that will be the vessel used for both teams—stock and identically outfitted.... and let the team that can coax the best performance out of it win.

But then it would not be the America's Cup. The original race was about design, not sailors. It was our way to show how we(America) could build a faster boat then England.

And in that race, there was a mark that most of the British boats rounded but the Americans did not. A few of the lagging British boats followed America and also did not round the mark. Some of the British boats protested America but the mark was not in the SI so the win stood.

Another interesting and SBO related fact was that America started late because they could not raise her anchor. Must have been a Rocna

I also see a parallel between Sir Thomas Lipton and Larry Ellison. Win at any cost. They both dumped exorbitant amounts of money into the latest technology to try and build the fastest boat. And they are about 100 years apart.

 

[rpwillia]

Bottom line is we win

Every time one of these guys pushes the technological envelope it eventually trickles down to us, so in the end sailing and technology advance.

 

[higgs]

Re: Bottom line is we win

I find it hard to believe that the technology now being used is going to trickle down to us. How many of us are going to be using input from a computer to trim our sails. How many of us even want to do that?
How many of us, in the near future are going to use our diesels to power our hydraulics? How many of us, in the next 10 years are even going to have hydraulics? Certainly racers will like this - but the average non racer could give a rat's ass.

 

[jibes138]

They need to start racing in J boats again. Endeavour, after Elizabeth Myer fixed her up was the most beautiful boat ever built. Anyone know where it is now? Last I knew Kozlowski from Tyco bought it then he was thrown in jail for embezzlement or something.

 

[jibes138]

Speaking of J boats I raced against Shamrock one day coming out of Newport. She was in a tacking duel with me all the way uo the east entrance to Narragansett Bay. I got some good pictures but my camera was only 1 megapixal at the time. Endeavour is a much prettier boat but it was a blast sailing right next to Shamrock. Oh I might add that I wasn't sailing next to her for very long and she did eventually win the race.

 

[sailingdog]

Yes, but somehow, in all the lawyers, the sailing has seemed to drop completely out of importance...

What if the race was still about design, but there was a cap on the amount of money that could be spent on the boat... That would help bring out more innovation that the current unlimited budget, longer, faster arms race that currently exists. If they had size and budget limitations, it would make things more about innovation and good sailing than the current format is IMHO.

Say the format had a limit of 40' LOA and a budget of $4,000,000 for the boat... we'd still get some interesting innovations, and the chances that some would be applicable to us, and boats that we're likely to own/sail would be much higher.

But then it would not be the America's Cup. The original race was about design, not sailors. It was our way to show how we(America) could build a faster boat then England.

And in that race, there was a mark that most of the British boats rounded but the Americans did not. A few of the lagging British boats followed America and also did not round the mark. Some of the British boats protested America but the mark was not in the SI so the win stood.

Another interesting and SBO related fact was that America started late because they could not raise her anchor. Must have been a Rocna

I also see a parallel between Sir Thomas Lipton and Larry Ellison. Win at any cost. They both dumped exorbitant amounts of money into the latest technology to try and build the fastest boat. And they are about 100 years apart.

 

[Tim R.]

I am for a spending limit. Something to make it possible to get more teams involved from more countries.

 

[rpwillia]

Let me see if I can answer Higgs

I find it hard to believe that the technology now being used is going to trickle down to us. How many of us are going to be using input from a computer to trim our sails. How many of us even want to do that?
How many of us, in the near future are going to use our diesels to power our hydraulics? How many of us, in the next 10 years are even going to have hydraulics? Certainly racers will like this - but the average non racer could give a rat's ass.

A few years ago many of us had never heard of carbon fiber masts and spinnaker poles, wing keels, bulb keels, hydraulic backstays, kevlar sails, different sail designs, lightweight blocks, dyneema and other high tech lines, and the list goes on. While I have not seen the "Hula Skirts" on everyday sailboats yet that they had in one of the AC races I would bet one of the builders has incorporated some aspect of it. I also admit I do like my chartplotter and autopilot.

There are some advantages to the old school approach. For example if you get bored out at sea, or you are not in San Francisco near a (sic) pharmacy, you could always use some of your hemp rope to smoke. But for me, I am happy to take advantage of the new stuff when it becomes affordable and proven. Now if man could just figure out how to fly we could get from one place to another really fast as long there aren't long waiting lines at the airports of the future.

 

[catsailor]

Racing addaptations, huh...

A few years ago many of us had never heard of carbon fiber masts and spinnaker poles, wing keels, bulb keels, hydraulic backstays, kevlar sails, different sail designs, lightweight blocks, dyneema and other high tech lines, and the list goes on. While I have not seen the "Hula Skirts" on everyday sailboats yet that they had in one of the AC races I would bet one of the builders has incorporated some aspect of it. I also admit I do like my chartplotter and autopilot.

There are some advantages to the old school approach. For example if you get bored out at sea, or you are not in San Francisco near a (sic) pharmacy, you could always use some of your hemp rope to smoke. But for me, I am happy to take advantage of the new stuff when it becomes affordable and proven. Now if man could just figure out how to fly we could get from one place to another really fast as long there aren't long waiting lines at the airports of the future.

Cored construction
Vacuum bagging
Triaxial and unidirectional fabrics
Full battens
Many winch improvements
Tri-radial chutes
Harkin-style blocks, in general

My last boat was made of kevlar/honeycomb and weighed 1200 pounds at 27 feet. We cruised for weeks at a time, but I wouldn't call her a cruiser, I think. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/search?q=stiletto+27+-+you+can+actually+sleep+in+that

I suppose it depends on whether we WANT to take advantage of the technology. We may choose not to. And I can enjoy watching may sports that I would never consider participating in.

For the rest of use, there is one-design racing. It fits any budget.

 

[higgs]

I make the claim that the technology now being used in the A cup will not filter down to us in our lifetimes. Are you ready, or willing, to let computers trim your sails?

 

[rpwillia]

Hmmm, would it help me win a race? ...

I make the claim that the technology now being used in the A cup will not filter down to us in our lifetimes. Are you ready, or willing, to let computers trim your sails?

If yes, you betcha I would use it. I normally use my GPS anymore to check on my sail trim, etc. Read the following below from a racer that I truly admire who wins most of what he does on the Potomac. He was emailing another guy who was racing and they were discussing sail choice. The telling comment is the last one "It feels slower, but the math doesn't lie." All that being said, a good helmsman and a good sail trimmer in a race can probably beat the pants off of a computer given the technology today.

"Our choice for our #1 (155%) was driven by the conditions. In order to carry that sail, we luffed the forward 60% of the mainsail the entire time, often all the way. Our main trim dictates speed upwind, mainly through control of heel angle and rudder drag. My wheel is marked with tape bands that the main trimmer uses to play the traveller-ie;once he sees the helm approaching 20-30 degrees of rudder angle (weather helm), he will automatically drop the traveler down until I can get the rudder centered again. This adds well over a knot and a half to our upwind speed, as dragging the rudder sideways through thick water is much slower than luffing a sail through thin air. We try to keep the boat's heel angle below 19 degrees; anything more and we reef the main and get out a smaller headsail. It feels slower, but the math doesn't lie."

 

[Sailm8]

Is it possible that a computer program will show you how to trim your sails based on polars and data stored when you have been out for a sail? It could sense the wind , heel course, sail position, pressure on the sails etc and show you on a screen how to trim your sails. Not impossible. The data and hardware is here. Integration is all that is missing

Who could have imagined chartplotters would replace exquisitely machined sextants. Or you would type in an address and be directed to an address across the country.

 

[higgs]

Good discussion going here.

Let's see: I check the computer screen and it tells me to ease my jib sheet 3/4 of an inch. I don't get up because my electric winches take care of it automatically. My chart plotter, tied into my GPS, tells me it is time to tack so now I am forced to actually do something. Fortunately, I don't have to spin the wheel myself as the AP, tied to my plotter, does it for me. I do have to release the jib sheet and load the other side on the self tailing winch. The computer tells the electric winch just how much to trim. Since my radar will audibly warn me if another boat is near I can go below and enjoy my air conditioned cabin and play video games on my wide screen all powered by the engine, constantly running, to power my hydraulics that the computer is using to trim my sails.

 

[John Howitt]

you must own the econo model, if you have to release the jib sheet, and load the selftailing winch manually.

 

[higgs]

I'm always looking for ways to save money.

 

[HukilauMike]

I am sure we all know sailors who love technology, and who don't feel comfortable sailing without their gadgets. I don't have an electronic wind gauge or anemometer, and the only instrument that was on my boat when I bought her was a non-working knotmeter. No depth gauge at all. I keep track of the depth by piloting with charts, and I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered that I had developed the skill of feeling the wind shifts on my cheeks. I enjoy sailing, really sailing my boat. I don't want it to become like a video game. Having said that (and, yes, I did see Curb Your Enthusiasm last night), if I were in a race, I wouldn't turn down technology that made my boat faster or gave me more information that would help me win.