Am I the only one who has to loosen forestay turnbuckle to lower mast?

[Rick Macdonald]

I'm wondering if this is normal or not. I've written everything I can think of to describe the situation:

I've had my H23.5 for 14 years now. I only tuned the mast once, maybe 10 years ago. At the time I set the mast rake by hanging a wrench from the main halyard and measuring at the goose neck. I have a Loos gauge for the shrouds. After setting with the gauge, I then understood what the Hunter factory guy told me about the shroud tension being "guitar-string tight". Well, I play guitar and wasn't sure what he meant. What I noticed was that as you increase the tension, "plucking" the shrouds changes from a sloppy "thwack" or "thup" or "blap" that stops immediately to a very low tone/vibration that carries on for a couple of seconds or so. (Dave - I'd be interested in you opinion of this since you do it by feel!)

The turnbuckles on the forestay are completely wound closed - no more threads left. Every time I lower and raise the mast (not very often), I have to remove the cotter pins and completely loosen the turnbuckles to nearly the last threads in order to get the pin out.

About 6 years ago I moved the forestay pin to the forward hole in the plate. I'm not sure why now, although probably because the forstay seemed loose (saggy). I don't know why I didn't tighten the shrouds instead.

I have Schaefer Snapfurl which covers the turnbuckle, so all-in-all it's quite an ordeal to lower the mast.

So, does this sound normal? It seems to me that backing off the forestay turnbuckles to the center and tightening the shrouds would not change the situation, it would only increase the mast rake. Should I just be more aggressive with the mainsheet/gin pole? When I have the maximum tension on the mainsheet when the mast is up, the gin pole is horizontal and the mainsheet blocks are nearly touching (no more room to tighten). I would need to set the gin pole angle greater to be able to harden the mainsheet more. I've been afraid to use this much force.

 

[rgranger]

So you have too much tension on the pin at the chain plate? I had this situation on an older boat of mine and I would take the jib halyard forward to the chain plate and crank it in the winch to take the tension off of the forestay. Give that a try. If it works, you will save yourself a lot of time.

Eventually, I rigged an inexpensive block at the forestay chain plate and ran the jib sheet from the mast, through the block and back to a winch.... and I would also use that to hold the mast up while I walked forward and set the forestay pin.

It was a Mac 22 so I as lifting the mast my hand and needed that to hold it up while I went forward... and your boat is a little different but it might work to take the pressure off of the pin while you set up and take down.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

The jib halyard, the gin pole and the mainsheet attached to the U-bolt in the anchor locker already raises the mast and keeps it up until the forestay pin is inserted (or removed). I guess my question is whether or not I should be able to harden the mainsheet enough to get the pin out without loosening the turnbuckles to take the remaining pressure off the pin? I've been afraid if I go the extra bit something might break. If I find that everybody else has to do the same, or nobody else has to, I'd have my answer!

 

[rgranger]

Sorry

Can't help with what everyone does. This H26 is new to me and I've only lowered the mast once (With Dave C's help). And the 26' probably has different issues than the 23.5'.

Sounds like a real pain in the neck.... hope you figure it out.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Thanks rgranger. I have a friend who's had 2 H26, 1 h270 and now a H260. I don't think he ever had/has to loosen his forestay turnbuckles but the rigging (mast and shrouds) is quite different from my H23.5.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Rick, on my 23.5 after tuning the rig so the leeward shrouds don't slacken I found I have to really cinch down the tackle of the mast raising system and stretch the forestay by hand to get the pin through the toggle and stem head. You are correct that the forestay turnbuckle sets the rake angle by controlling the forestay length. Tensioning the rig is done by alternately tuning the cap shrouds and lowers. It's in my opinion best to de-tension the rig enough to make the forestay attachable, just enough. I have mine tensioned so I can just barely get the pin in with the tackle pulled very tight.
Dennis

 

[Joe]

Sorry to butt in here... but does your boat have swept back shrouds and NO backstay? With that type of rig, loosening the shrouds makes it way easier to pin the forestay. My Nacra beach cat was setup that way... I had adjusters on the shrouds, rather than turnbuckles for exactly that reason. The type I used have multiple holes with a simple clevis pin. You can choose your tension easily by changing pin holes.
Quick release stay/shroud adjusters are pretty common on smaller boats.. don't know about a 23 footer though.. The quick release feature allows you to let the mast lean forward when sailing off the wind... like you would with a backstay adjuster.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

The very first thing I read was the use of a tensioning tool which the boat was over tuned. Throw that thing away. Rick, send me a forum email with phone number and time zone. Also research this forum as I have talked about it in the past. If you follow my lead you should not have the issues anymore. I am not trying to type much as I am tired following heart issue last week but can call. phone and time zone and information remains confidential.

My personal email has been getting too much junk from overseas thanks to surviving the web by my dear beloved. So your email may not come thru on my reg. email now so suggest the forum email until you are on my account.

 

[Doug J]

I'm still getting acquainted with my relatively new-2-me H26. But I have stepped the mast several times by myself. The shrouds and head stay are quit tight, and I never loosen or change the settings on anything. Using the mast raising gin pole with the jib halyard and the main sheet block and tackle run to a winch, I tighten it real hard, using a winch handle and tie it off. Then I go to the bow and wrap a rope around the furler drum. That rope has a pre-tied loop in it where I can put my foot and apply my weight to it, pulling the drum down enough to pin the stay. Pretty easy!

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Doug, You may want to contact me as well. I pretty much designed that system. use forum email

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

I wonder if the deck isn't going soft under the mast step.

 

[isaksp00]

On my H23 (different rig, so keep that in mind) I cannot easily detach the forestay unless I loosen the "turnbuckle." I have a Harken furler, so the furling lower unit is the turnbuckle. I use a mast raising/lowering rig with a gin pole and double blocks (not the main sheet, but an essentially identical rig), and while I possibly could tighten it enough to unpin the stay without loosening the tension on the stay, it would not be easy and not worth the effort. But, I completely remove my furler drum from the stay at the end of the season, so I have to open the "turnbuckle" in any case. And when I put it back in the spring, I adjust the forestay tension by feel.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Hi Dave, thanks for your offer to help me with this question. I'm up at the lake where my boat is now. The lake level is low so the boat is still on the trailer. The boom and jib are not on yet.

I used the Loos gauge about 12 years ago, and the shrouds are not as tight as they used to be. Pulling with 2 fingers (moving my whole arm) I get an inch or more deflection on the uppers and double that on the lowers. Of course, the H23.5 is not a B&R with reverse diagonals.

I sent you a forum Private Message with my phone number and time zone.

 

[fred1diver]

I have to loosen the backstay or else I can't remove the clevis pin

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Fred, the Hunter 23.5 does not have a backstay which there are some pluses. I did talk to Rick and he is going to rethink the tuning.