Hey gang On return from the Newport to Ensenada race, we learned a couple of things. We were in the yes you can run the motor at night if you choose. First, fuel burn on a 3GM30F goes up exponentially, from our normal cruise of 22-2600, if you are leaning on the throttle like Quint trying to get a big shark to the taxidermy man! Secondly, if you didnt do the math and elected to not get gas in Ensenada for the return trip, you can actually flame out the little iron aux! Bummer. That being said, we called VA to get some fuel headed our way, and meantime, I changed out both 10 microns, with two new ones. We put five gallons in and something wasnt right. I couldnt get a good flow of fuel past the filters to the mechanical pump. I used the oil boy and it was building up lots of suction. I did the research here and it does seem my pick up screen is clogged. HAS anyone just taken that out? I run a duel 10 micron racor setup with a two micron at the motor. If this isnt a good idea, can you blow air back thru to unclog it or do you need to take it out? Can you get the crud out of the tank by using oil boy through return line? Thanks again.
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Sounds like
the pickup screen is plugged up. Lots of people just remove this screen and let the Racors to the job. This will to some extent get some of the crud out of the fuel tank. As for the Racors, I run a two filter setup, a 30 micron in front of a 10 micron. Engine filter I believe is two micron. I change filter elements every year, and have not had any problems with this setup.
the pickup screen is plugged up. Lots of people just remove this screen and let the Racors to the job. This will to some extent get some of the crud out of the fuel tank. As for the Racors, I run a two filter setup, a 30 micron in front of a 10 micron. Engine filter I believe is two micron. I change filter elements every year, and have not had any problems with this setup.
One of the first things most
people do is remove that pesky pickup screen. One of the very first things that was written up in the C34 and C36 publications in the early to mid 1980s.
people do is remove that pesky pickup screen. One of the very first things that was written up in the C34 and C36 publications in the early to mid 1980s.
More explanation
If you have two Racors, both 10 micron, then what you virtually have is a secondary filter doing nothing. If the first gets out all the 10 micron materials in the fuel, what is the second one doing. You will have a much more servicable and longer lasting filter setup if you run a 30 in front of a 10. Or even a 20 in front of a 10.
If you have two Racors, both 10 micron, then what you virtually have is a secondary filter doing nothing. If the first gets out all the 10 micron materials in the fuel, what is the second one doing. You will have a much more servicable and longer lasting filter setup if you run a 30 in front of a 10. Or even a 20 in front of a 10.
I run...
a 2 mic Racor in front of the Yanny's 10 mic canister. Cheaper to replace a Racor than have the high pressure pump or injectors rebuilt/replaced.
a 2 mic Racor in front of the Yanny's 10 mic canister. Cheaper to replace a Racor than have the high pressure pump or injectors rebuilt/replaced.
2 Micron on Yanmars
My Yanmar has a 2 micron directly in front of the injector pump. As Dan stated, this is much cheaper, and I might add easier, to replace than any injector part. If you don't have a final filter element of 2microns at the engine, I would suggest a combination of maybe a 10 and a 2, but my final filer in the line would certainly be a 2 micron.
My Yanmar has a 2 micron directly in front of the injector pump. As Dan stated, this is much cheaper, and I might add easier, to replace than any injector part. If you don't have a final filter element of 2microns at the engine, I would suggest a combination of maybe a 10 and a 2, but my final filer in the line would certainly be a 2 micron.
Filter setup
Nice, everything I have read and heard although maybe not the definative answer is a 10 or 12 for you primaries. I call my two 10 microns my primaries because they are the first two filters. Fred I believe runs 2 microns on Epitome which is maybe overkill. I am not doubting his wisdom though. I have a single 2 micron at the engine pump. I call that the secondary filter. Last stop before the injectors for crud and very easy to change. So im thinking I will just remove the pickup screen if it turns out to be a pain to get too. Otherwise just clean and reinstall. I havent fixed my clog yet. Actually had to work for a living for a few days
Cheers
Nice, everything I have read and heard although maybe not the definative answer is a 10 or 12 for you primaries. I call my two 10 microns my primaries because they are the first two filters. Fred I believe runs 2 microns on Epitome which is maybe overkill. I am not doubting his wisdom though. I have a single 2 micron at the engine pump. I call that the secondary filter. Last stop before the injectors for crud and very easy to change. So im thinking I will just remove the pickup screen if it turns out to be a pain to get too. Otherwise just clean and reinstall. I havent fixed my clog yet. Actually had to work for a living for a few days
Cheers
Hey Rick
What are the chances you guys will be at the boat this weekend. We're going over Friday to check out a couple of boats on Sat. Would love to meet up for dinner @ Red Sail or? on Sat. Would like to hear about the race, cruise, motorsail or what was it again? I believe your 2 10 micron racors are in parallel and not series right? Meant to be switched between the two in case of one clogging. Happened to me last year in the Mission Bay entrance channel. Had to sail in and anchor under sail on Memorial day weekend. Great fun! Dwain S/V Dancy H340
What are the chances you guys will be at the boat this weekend. We're going over Friday to check out a couple of boats on Sat. Would love to meet up for dinner @ Red Sail or? on Sat. Would like to hear about the race, cruise, motorsail or what was it again?
I believe your 2 10 micron racors are in parallel and not series right? Meant to be switched between the two in case of one clogging. Happened to me last year in the Mission Bay entrance channel. Had to sail in and anchor under sail on Memorial day weekend. Great fun! Dwain S/V Dancy H340
A fuel filter question
For years now i have been reading about people having fuel filter problems. I've heard the 2 before 10 before 30 mantra also, in every different order imaginable. Please help me understand, if a skipper changes fuel filters on a reasonable schedule, just why continued reports of fuel starvation ("when motoring out of our channel into the sailing area") continue to be posted. Thanks, Stu
For years now i have been reading about people having fuel filter problems. I've heard the 2 before 10 before 30 mantra also, in every different order imaginable. Please help me understand, if a skipper changes fuel filters on a reasonable schedule, just why continued reports of fuel starvation ("when motoring out of our channel into the sailing area") continue to be posted. Thanks, Stu
Hey Rick
Please EXCUSEE MEE! I've never had a fuel problem, and I regret saying that I did. Everything is perfect here and I never have problems. Dwain PS: I'd like to apologise to Stu for confusing him with my previous statements. So I'd like to retract it. PPSS: Rick let me know if you'll be in SD this weekend.
Please EXCUSEE MEE! I've never had a fuel problem, and I regret saying that I did. Everything is perfect here and I never have problems. Dwain PS: I'd like to apologise to Stu for confusing him with my previous statements. So I'd like to retract it. PPSS: Rick let me know if you'll be in SD this weekend.
Fuel starvation? Stu.. gotcha
Stu I believe you may have been caught scanning instead of reading. So unlike you Dwain was actually entering a channel about 6 hours away from his slip! I do change my filters every year and yes have never had one clog. And I can take one out of the loops if it does. It is my first experience with the bottom of the tank and the fuel in it and the tank was recently (15 months) installed. My pick up in the tank clogged as far as I can tell. And yes it was due to not perhaps fuel starvation, well until the pick up clogged, maybe just timing, less fuel available for the gunk to float in.. I dont know. It happened. Do you think taking out the screen at the pick up is a good idea or not? Dwain, I will actually be over on Mon or Tue to fix my fuel situation since of course they dont let us sail in and out of our slips in SAN. Definately would like to tell ya about the race over a beer at the Red Sails. Good luck boat shopping. Cheers
Stu I believe you may have been caught scanning instead of reading. So unlike you
Dwain was actually entering a channel about 6 hours away from his slip! I do change my filters every year and yes have never had one clog. And I can take one out of the loops if it does. It is my first experience with the bottom of the tank and the fuel in it and the tank was recently (15 months) installed. My pick up in the tank clogged as far as I can tell. And yes it was due to not perhaps fuel starvation, well until the pick up clogged, maybe just timing, less fuel available for the gunk to float in.. I dont know. It happened. Do you think taking out the screen at the pick up is a good idea or not? Dwain, I will actually be over on Mon or Tue to fix my fuel situation since of course they dont let us sail in and out of our slips in SAN. Definately would like to tell ya about the race over a beer at the Red Sails. Good luck boat shopping. Cheers
Rick, thanks,
I was just asking a question that has intrigued me for years, looking for input. As far as the pickup screen, yes, please remove it for your own safety. The issue was written up in a 1987 or 88 Mainsheet magazine article. A few years later a friend was traveling down the coast from SF to LA out in some nasty stuff and the engine wouldn't work. For some reason he remembered that story and they removed the screen and all was well, and he wrote in a reminder. In his case the boat was being tossed around by the ocean like you-know-what, which obviously stirred up the sediments in the tank, but the boat was only a few years old back then. FWIW, the filters didn't clog, only the screen. And it wasn't even his boat!!!
I was just asking a question that has intrigued me for years, looking for input. As far as the pickup screen, yes, please remove it for your own safety. The issue was written up in a 1987 or 88 Mainsheet magazine article. A few years later a friend was traveling down the coast from SF to LA out in some nasty stuff and the engine wouldn't work. For some reason he remembered that story and they removed the screen and all was well, and he wrote in a reminder. In his case the boat was being tossed around by the ocean like you-know-what, which obviously stirred up the sediments in the tank, but the boat was only a few years old back then. FWIW, the filters didn't clog, only the screen. And it wasn't even his boat!!!
Stu, my pleasure
Was just yankin your er.. rode And being an old fighter pilot fuel has always been near and dear to my heart. Still cant believe I was that far off on my burn rate at max rpm. Lesson learned. And I just noticed your port. I can imagine losing power on a morning sight see over near the Gate, or to weather of Angel Island or say the approach to the Oakland slips would be nothing short of "an emergency". Im going with your input. Out it goes! The coast of Mehico can be unforgiving too. Good thing we had 12 knots apparent of primary fuel. Cheers
Was just yankin your er.. rode
And being an old fighter pilot fuel has always been near and dear to my heart. Still cant believe I was that far off on my burn rate at max rpm. Lesson learned. And I just noticed your port. I can imagine losing power on a morning sight see over near the Gate, or to weather of Angel Island or say the approach to the Oakland slips would be nothing short of "an emergency". Im going with your input. Out it goes! The coast of Mehico can be unforgiving too. Good thing we had 12 knots apparent of primary fuel. Cheers
I hear ya, Rick
When my exhaust riser catastrophically failed (bang, black brown diesel soot coming out the companionway!!!) in 2003, I was glad to get that 12 knots right off the Alameda NAS. Only problem it was on a building flood and the wind didn't come up until the third hours of sailing around in one place hoping I didn't have to jerk my OWN rode! Finally sailed back home in a total of four hours for a 1 1/2 hour motor. Point being: I'd been warned, warned, warned and just didn't listen. Happened to a friend two weeks ago, too, but outside the Gate. We "burn" 0.423 gph, over eight years. Keeping the throttle at max instead of 60 to 75% really whacks the numbers, gulp, gulp...and doesn't get any of us much more reduced ETA.
When my exhaust riser catastrophically failed (bang, black brown diesel soot coming out the companionway!!!) in 2003, I was glad to get that 12 knots right off the Alameda NAS. Only problem it was on a building flood and the wind didn't come up until the third hours of sailing around in one place hoping I didn't have to jerk my OWN rode! Finally sailed back home in a total of four hours for a 1 1/2 hour motor. Point being: I'd been warned, warned, warned and just didn't listen. Happened to a friend two weeks ago, too, but outside the Gate. We "burn" 0.423 gph, over eight years. Keeping the throttle at max instead of 60 to 75% really whacks the numbers, gulp, gulp...and doesn't get any of us much more reduced ETA.
The fuel set-up on...
Intrepid was set up by the PO two owners ago. A retired Air Force SR-71 pilot, I've trusted his judgement in putting the 2 mic in the primary position. A fuel problem on one of his missions could have had significant ramifications. The spec on the Yanny's filter says 10 mic, and if that one clogs you gotta heapa trouble! A clogged 2 mic filter signals early a nasty problem better cured before you REALLY need the engine!
Intrepid was set up by the PO two owners ago. A retired Air Force SR-71 pilot, I've trusted his judgement in putting the 2 mic in the primary position. A fuel problem on one of his missions could have had significant ramifications. The spec on the Yanny's filter says 10 mic, and if that one clogs you gotta heapa trouble! A clogged 2 mic filter signals early a nasty problem better cured before you REALLY need the engine!
After some filter research, I found this
What do you think? Never did understand why some filters have a T and some an S. Here's the straight scoop on Racor filters. I have found most guys at the West, Boaters World, BoatUS etc. really don't know what's right, they know what sells though. The 2 micron filters are a secondary filter, made to be an engine filter on engines that don't have one of there own. If you use a 2 micron as a primary filter (the first one the fuel goes to from the tank) you won't get any of the centrifugal action the housing was designed to do for spinning out things that are heavier than fuel, such as water. The last letter in the 2 micron filter part number is "S" for secondary. The 10 micron filter is a transitional filter, made to be used in extreme duty locations as an intermediate filter between the primary and secondary. Again, not much happening in the centrifugal action. The last letter in the 10 micron filter part number is "T". The 30 micron filter is what was designed to be a primary filter, does the job best as the first filter the fuel goes through. Now, all that being said, you can use any filter you want, it is the outcome that is the consideration. With a relatively clean fuel tank you should get about 80 to 100 hours on a 2 micron primary filter, about 4 days underway. That's not very much. If you often sail through jetties and rough water, don't depend on your engine to always get you through if you use a 2 micron filter, a 2 micron will always stop flowing at the most inopportune time. Lastly if you get a Racor element wet with water, it will not allow much fuel to go through. They are water blocking, and when wet fuel blocking too, best place for the water is in the bowl under the element. Drain the bowl as part of the shut down procedure when you are closing up the boat. If the Racor is in a place that is hard to get to, move it. Believe me, if you do regular draining of the filter bowl, your boating experience will only get better. Sounds fairly knowedgable. Cheers
What do you think? Never did understand why some filters have a T and some an S. Here's the straight scoop on Racor filters. I have found most guys at the West, Boaters World, BoatUS etc. really don't know what's right, they know what sells though. The 2 micron filters are a secondary filter, made to be an engine filter on engines that don't have one of there own. If you use a 2 micron as a primary filter (the first one the fuel goes to from the tank) you won't get any of the centrifugal action the housing was designed to do for spinning out things that are heavier than fuel, such as water. The last letter in the 2 micron filter part number is "S" for secondary. The 10 micron filter is a transitional filter, made to be used in extreme duty locations as an intermediate filter between the primary and secondary. Again, not much happening in the centrifugal action. The last letter in the 10 micron filter part number is "T". The 30 micron filter is what was designed to be a primary filter, does the job best as the first filter the fuel goes through. Now, all that being said, you can use any filter you want, it is the outcome that is the consideration. With a relatively clean fuel tank you should get about 80 to 100 hours on a 2 micron primary filter, about 4 days underway. That's not very much. If you often sail through jetties and rough water, don't depend on your engine to always get you through if you use a 2 micron filter, a 2 micron will always stop flowing at the most inopportune time. Lastly if you get a Racor element wet with water, it will not allow much fuel to go through. They are water blocking, and when wet fuel blocking too, best place for the water is in the bowl under the element. Drain the bowl as part of the shut down procedure when you are closing up the boat. If the Racor is in a place that is hard to get to, move it. Believe me, if you do regular draining of the filter bowl, your boating experience will only get better. Sounds fairly knowedgable. Cheers
Rick re: hours per filter
" With a relatively clean fuel tank you should get about 80 to 100 hours on a 2 micron primary filter" Where did you get that? I'm always curious about statements of time per filter. It seems to me that a more logical method would be volume per filter. Some engines burn a quart an hour and some burn 10 gallons or more per hour. So, in 100 hours you might be looking at 25 gallons or 1,000 gallons. (ignoring what's recirculated back to the tank). I know filter sizes vary, but the popular Racor 230R has a flow rating of 30 gallons per hour. My question or comment is, shouldn't you take into account the volume of fuel filtered rather than engine hours? Thanks.
" With a relatively clean fuel tank you should get about 80 to 100 hours on a 2 micron primary filter" Where did you get that? I'm always curious about statements of time per filter. It seems to me that a more logical method would be volume per filter. Some engines burn a quart an hour and some burn 10 gallons or more per hour. So, in 100 hours you might be looking at 25 gallons or 1,000 gallons. (ignoring what's recirculated back to the tank). I know filter sizes vary, but the popular Racor 230R has a flow rating of 30 gallons per hour. My question or comment is, shouldn't you take into account the volume of fuel filtered rather than engine hours? Thanks.
Fuel Use
Richard, that's a not unreasonable suggestion. I would submit that most of our auxiliary engines use only between 1/3 or so to 1 gallon per hour, so that the volume difference would average around a half to three quarters per hour. Sure, if we were dealing with power boats there'd be a much larger diversity. Using 1/2 gph, with Rick's figures, and 100 hours, that would be a "normal" full season's use.
Richard, that's a not unreasonable suggestion. I would submit that most of our auxiliary engines use only between 1/3 or so to 1 gallon per hour, so that the volume difference would average around a half to three quarters per hour. Sure, if we were dealing with power boats there'd be a much larger diversity. Using 1/2 gph, with Rick's figures, and 100 hours, that would be a "normal" full season's use.
Great topic
Let me share my tale of woe on the subject. Last season I replaced my primary with a new Racor 220 10 micron filter and a filter alarm with a vacuum gauge plus ball valves to bypass the filter and new stainless braided fuel lines all was well except when I started the engine the vacuum gauge read 10! now Im thinking there is a kink in a fuel line and that wasn't the problem so I blew into the pickup tube and all seemed clear,then I ran a hose right into the tank and then the gauge read 0 OK lets pull the pickup tube and the screen was all the way up inside the tube right at a elbow fitting (my lift pump sure works well) and it looked like a cats hairball when I pulled it out and left it out. Great lesson learned and I ended up replacing the whole fuel tank cause I was able to increase my fuel capacity and felt better starting out fresh and now that I'm writing and reading these posts I should remove the screen from the new one.
Let me share my tale of woe on the subject. Last season I replaced my primary with a new Racor 220 10 micron filter and a filter alarm with a vacuum gauge plus ball valves to bypass the filter and new stainless braided fuel lines all was well except when I started the engine the vacuum gauge read 10! now Im thinking there is a kink in a fuel line and that wasn't the problem so I blew into the pickup tube and all seemed clear,then I ran a hose right into the tank and then the gauge read 0 OK lets pull the pickup tube and the screen was all the way up inside the tube right at a elbow fitting (my lift pump sure works well) and it looked like a cats hairball when I pulled it out and left it out. Great lesson learned and I ended up replacing the whole fuel tank cause I was able to increase my fuel capacity and felt better starting out fresh and now that I'm writing and reading these posts I should remove the screen from the new one.
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