aluminum / stainless fused.... help

[NYSail]

So my H2 Lewmar windlas has an aluminum case on which there is a stainless steel arm screwed into it. It works fine with the exception of the manual free drop so I am trying to disassemble and clean up the gypsy and cones. Of course one of the hex screws came out nicely... the other one won't budge and the aluminum/stainless appear to be fused from years of being together. Bad combo and probably no protection. I added heat to the aluminum side..... stainless side and no luck. And insult to injury the hex screw is not in good shape.... Looks like somebody attempted this in the past. I figure I will start just soaking it with PB Blaster every time I think about it and see if I get some penetration. Any other suggestions??

Thanks!
Greg

 

[sailnoproblem]

You can try a impact tool but am not sure they come with a hex insert. If you can use the tool after a few wacks the PB will have a better chance to penetrate. Then use it again and it should remove the bolt. Good luck

 

[berner73]

Sorry, it's unclear to me - are the screws holding the stainless steel arm aluminum or stainless?

 

[RoyS]

I have never been impressed with any penetrating oil and I certainly have used plenty. With aluminum and stainless an electric impact screwdriver will usually work but unfortunately you do have a problem with your damaged hex head. Heat really works best on brass fasteners, but try it again anyway. If and when you remove the fasteners be sure to apply an anti-seize paste or grease to the fastener before assembly. Good luck.

 

[Ron20324]

You can try a impact tool but am not sure they come with a hex insert. If you can use the tool after a few wacks the PB will have a better chance to penetrate. Then use it again and it should remove the bolt.

I always try to bump the bolt like to tighten it. Then go CCW to try to loosen.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I agree that impact is the way to go. For small fasteners I have had luck with my Ryobi 18V One System driver drill. Use PB Blaster and the best bit possible for the fastener. The impact will break the bond and let the PB Blaster do its job better. This is a small impact driver so it will not put a lot of horsepower into the fastener.

The picture below is a new model of the driver drill that I have:

 

[capta]

We use PB blaster quite a lot, but I've found it does nothing for the SS/alloy problem.
I think the only way you will win this one is with patience and heat. You need a torch with a very fine flame so you only the heat the alloy not the SS (you need to expand the alloy that the bolt is in, not the bolt) and when the alloy is warm (expanded) try to turn the bolt. If you end up ruining the hex, you can use a chisel on the side of the head of the bolt to try to get it to turn.
Unfortunately, you are most likely going to have to drill the bolt out. If you get to that point, again, slow and careful are the watchwords. Do not rush or get impatient. It is going to be a hard job to keep the drill bit in the center and not ruin the threads in the alloy.
Good luck.

 

[jviss]

I have never tried it, but I've heard of guys loosening these using an arc welder. One lead on the case, one on the hex it jammed into the socket head (with the help of some steel wool and a hammer); hook the leads first, put some tension on the hex, and turn the welder on. Wear gloves and goggles. The current cause heat at the oxide and supposedly break it down.

 

[SailormanDan]

My steering quadrant was frozen in a similar way and I had to take it to a machine shop and have it drilled out and then they inserted & tapped a SS sleeve into the aluminum quadrant. Not the cheap option, but fixed the problem.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I've never used this technique with a stainless bolt, only mild steel. Place a steel nut with a hole large enough the weld through over the bolt/screw. Use a wire welder to weld the nut to the bolt/screw. Then use a wrench on the nut to remove the bolt/screw. The heat helps to loosen the bolt/screw and the nut give you a good place to use a wrench. If the weld breaks get a new nut and try again. I'm not sure if this will work on stainless, but if the bolt is already damaged it might be worth a try.

FYI The boss bought us a new welder. I got the test it out today. It's a Forney 110 volt 140 amp multi-process unit. Being a 110 volt unit I didn't expect it to have any more power than my old 90 amp Campbell Hausfeld. After all there is only so much power that one can extract from a 110 volt wall outlet. I was wrong! The new inverter units have so much more power. We did trip the 20 amp breaker several times, never did that with my old unit.

 

[Daveinet]

Two penetrating fluids that might help. First would be Kroil. The second would be automatic transmission fluid mixed with acetone.

 

[Afrakes]

After you strip out the head of whatever fastener you're trying to remove it's time to drill it out. Never had luck with "penetrating fluids". Take your time drilling. Start out small and work your way up to larger drill bits and get to a point where you can run a tap through to save the threads. Good luck. Nasty work.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I have an old aluminum gauge pod that has several broken stainless bolts in it. I decided to try to remove them today.
Here is what is what I tried.
1st, weld a nut on using a wire welder and gas shielding. Tried it 3 times. No good, the filler metal does not penetrate the stainless.
2nd, weld a nut on using flux core wire. This works, good weld. However the screw twists off under the weld, it does take some effort. I started heating with a map gas torch and hammering on the bolt. I finally broke one bolt off flush and the other almost flush. I need my real torch, but someone borrowed the torch head.
Lessons learned. When welding stainless with a hobby setup use flux core and this ain't gonna be easy to remove.

Good luck with your windlass.

 

[capta]

I have an old aluminum gauge pod that has several broken stainless bolts in it. I decided to try to remove them today.
Here is what is what I tried.
1st, weld a nut on using a wire welder and gas shielding. Tried it 3 times. No good, the filler metal does not penetrate the stainless.
2nd, weld a nut on using flux core wire. This works, good weld. However the screw twists off under the weld, it does take some effort. I started heating with a map gas torch and hammering on the bolt. I finally broke one bolt off flush and the other almost flush. I need my real torch, but someone borrowed the torch head.
Lessons learned. When welding stainless with a hobby setup use flux core and this ain't gonna be easy to remove.

Good luck with your windlass.

When you break a bolt off like this you make it much, much more difficult to drill it out. I highly recommend you do not push things this far and use the hex head to guide your drill bit.

 

[SycloneDriver]

capta, I tell people that the easiest way to remove a broken bolt is not to break it in the first place. So I sort of agree with you. However this gauge pod was purchased like this for the gauge it contained and already had the bolt heads missing. I was just trying to see if I could get them out, usually I can. I don't see how the missing head makes it all that much more difficult to drill it out. I really hate drilling out broken bolts, that's my last resort.
A torch does wonders!

 

[NYSail]

Thanks for all the advice! I think since the windlass works fine I will wait for winter time and remove the unit and do the surgery at home on a better controlled environment. It will also give me a good environment to sand down and repaint.

Again thanks!

 

[capta]

Thanks for all the advice! I think since the windlass works fine I will wait for winter time and remove the unit and do the surgery at home on a better controlled environment. It will also give me a good environment to sand down and repaint.

Again thanks!
View attachment 169945

If you are going to take it off anyway, take it to a machine shop and have them do the job properly. Not much point in your taking a chance doing more harm than good on a really difficult job like this one.

 

[capta]

I don't see how the missing head makes it all that much more difficult to drill it out.

A bolt head is at a 90 degree angle to the threaded part and gives one a flat surface to begin the hole when drilling. A broken bolt usually breaks off on some sort of angle which makes it much harder to start the hole in the middle in order to drill straight down into the threads.

 

[dLj]

A bolt head is at a 90 degree angle to the threaded part and gives one a flat surface to begin the hole when drilling. A broken bolt usually breaks off on some sort of angle which makes it much harder to start the hole in the middle in order to drill straight down into the threads.

In addition to the above, when you break a stainless bolt the metal work hardens making starting a centered hole even more difficult given you now have an angled, hardened surface.

dj

 

[Mechone]

As a millwright for over 38 years I've removed hundreds of broken and seized bolts. First step hit the bolt on the head with a punch and hammer ,a direct blow. Then penetrating fluid, again I've used most likely every fluid made ,#1 knockerloose. Let sit for an hour . Then comes the heat on the bolt only ,be careful around alum. you don't want to melt it.If that doesn't this will .The bolt will never screw out two different metals galvanic corrosion. Go to amazon or ebay and purchase a carbide drill ,not a concrete drill smaller than the bolt thread. It will go thru stainless like butter on center ,then with a normal jobbers hss drill the tap size ,this will remove bolt. Then purchase a helicoil kit or go to machine shop to have one installed . Helicoil's are stainless and now your threading into stainless and it will never seize again